Blues 2025
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@brodean said in Blues 2025:
If the first test against the Pumas shut the door why did he start in the 2nd test?
Why was he originally named in the Eoyt NH tour squad that followed?
Well, I'm guessing they wanted Cane to return from the bench and they wanted to give Papali'i another shot. But seeing how he didn't play another minute after that second test - where he was subbed in the 50th minute - is pretty indicative, I think.
And my guess, for the Northern Tour, is that they wanted to try him in a blindside/bench-role. Hence the minutes at lock for Counties.
@Mauss said in Blues 2025:
@brodean said in Blues 2025:
If the first test against the Pumas shut the door why did he start in the 2nd test?
Why was he originally named in the Eoyt NH tour squad that followed?
Well, I'm guessing they wanted Cane to return from the bench and they wanted to give Papali'i another shot. But seeing how he didn't play another minute after that second test - where he was subbed in the 50th minute - is pretty indicative, I think.
And my guess, for the Northern Tour, is that they wanted to try him in a blindside/bench-role. Hence the minutes at lock for Counties.
He broke his thumb during the 2nd Pumas test.
Then came back in round 9 of the NPC for 20 minutes and did his hammy.
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@brodean said in Blues 2025:
He broke his thumb.
He was fit for the 2nd Springbok Test and wasn't picked. He isn't picked now. I think it's good to try to understand why.
I would've liked to have seen Papali'i picked. I think he's a genuine option at 6. If Vern Cotter was the coach of the ABs, he would be a great option at 7 as well. But he isn't.
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@brodean said in Blues 2025:
He broke his thumb.
He was fit for the 2nd Springbok Test and wasn't picked. He isn't picked now. I think it's good to try to understand why.
I would've liked to have seen Papali'i picked. I think he's a genuine option at 6. If Vern Cotter was the coach of the ABs, he would be a great option at 7 as well. But he isn't.
@Mauss said in Blues 2025:
@brodean said in Blues 2025:
He broke his thumb.
He was fit for the 2nd Springbok Test and wasn't picked. He isn't picked now. I think it's good to try to understand why.
I would've liked to have seen Papali'i picked. I think he's a genuine option at 6. If Vern Cotter was the coach of the ABs, he would be a great option at 7 as well. But he isn't.
From memory he played at 6 for the ABs a year or two ago and the general consensus wasn't highly favourable even though many felt he was a 7/6 and would do well there.
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@brodean said in Blues 2025:
He broke his thumb.
He was fit for the 2nd Springbok Test and wasn't picked. He isn't picked now. I think it's good to try to understand why.
I would've liked to have seen Papali'i picked. I think he's a genuine option at 6. If Vern Cotter was the coach of the ABs, he would be a great option at 7 as well. But he isn't.
@Mauss said in Blues 2025:
@brodean said in Blues 2025:
He broke his thumb.
He was fit for the 2nd Springbok Test and wasn't picked. He isn't picked now. I think it's good to try to understand why.
Well that's your speculation. They wanted to give Cane a go. He did his hammy in the Counties game and then was done for the rest of tyear.
My speculation is that his game is too much slanted towards cleans and defence which suits the Blues game plan but not the game that Razor wants. Not enough carries and not enough jackling. His game lacks balance in his workrate.
He topped the tackles and total rucks but he is one of the lowest carriers per 80 minutes from New Zealand loose forwards..
Tom Christie and Adrian Choat ffs carry more than him and he's a much better carrier than either of them.
His playing weight for the last two seasons at the Blues is 114kg so I don't see any need for him to put on more weight. If anything he's got too much weight for openside - it's to help with the cleans but I think it would hinder his carry ability and agility.
Jacobson, Kirifi and Lakai are carrying twice as much.
Carries Per 80 Minutes
18.77 Wallace Sititi
14.16 Vaiolini Ekuasi
13.87 Peter Lakai
12.71 Hoskins Sotutu
12.62 Ardie Savea
11.72 Christian Lio-Willie
11.21 Brayden Iose
10.55 Ethan Blackadder
10.34 Corey Kellow
10.28 Luke Jacobson
9.85 Du'Plessis Kirifi
9.43 Simon Parker
8.95 Hugh Renton
8.85 TK Howden
8.69 Reed Prinsep
8.64 Tom Christie
8.4 Cullen Grace
8.22 Sean Withy
7.94 Samipeni Finau
7.62 Jahrome Brown
7.58 Adrian Choat
6.98 Anton Segner
6.35 Kaylum Boshier
5.26 Dalton Papali'i
5.13 Oliver Haig
4.99 Veveni Lasaqa -
@Mauss said in Blues 2025:
@brodean said in Blues 2025:
He broke his thumb.
He was fit for the 2nd Springbok Test and wasn't picked. He isn't picked now. I think it's good to try to understand why.
I would've liked to have seen Papali'i picked. I think he's a genuine option at 6. If Vern Cotter was the coach of the ABs, he would be a great option at 7 as well. But he isn't.
From memory he played at 6 for the ABs a year or two ago and the general consensus wasn't highly favourable even though many felt he was a 7/6 and would do well there.
Well he got one game which we lost. Did well in the lineout but looked confused around the field as to where he should be.
I think him losing the captaincy for the Blues has been a major negative impact on his career.
For his AB's career I don't think Vernball has helped him or any of the Blues forwards.
The AB's results were poor last year so lets see if Razor's width game works better this year.
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@Mauss said in Blues 2025:
@brodean said in Blues 2025:
He broke his thumb.
He was fit for the 2nd Springbok Test and wasn't picked. He isn't picked now. I think it's good to try to understand why.
Well that's your speculation. They wanted to give Cane a go. He did his hammy in the Counties game and then was done for the rest of tyear.
My speculation is that his game is too much slanted towards cleans and defence which suits the Blues game plan but not the game that Razor wants. Not enough carries and not enough jackling. His game lacks balance in his workrate.
He topped the tackles and total rucks but he is one of the lowest carriers per 80 minutes from New Zealand loose forwards..
Tom Christie and Adrian Choat ffs carry more than him and he's a much better carrier than either of them.
His playing weight for the last two seasons at the Blues is 114kg so I don't see any need for him to put on more weight. If anything he's got too much weight for openside - it's to help with the cleans but I think it would hinder his carry ability and agility.
Jacobson, Kirifi and Lakai are carrying twice as much.
Carries Per 80 Minutes
18.77 Wallace Sititi
14.16 Vaiolini Ekuasi
13.87 Peter Lakai
12.71 Hoskins Sotutu
12.62 Ardie Savea
11.72 Christian Lio-Willie
11.21 Brayden Iose
10.55 Ethan Blackadder
10.34 Corey Kellow
10.28 Luke Jacobson
9.85 Du'Plessis Kirifi
9.43 Simon Parker
8.95 Hugh Renton
8.85 TK Howden
8.69 Reed Prinsep
8.64 Tom Christie
8.4 Cullen Grace
8.22 Sean Withy
7.94 Samipeni Finau
7.62 Jahrome Brown
7.58 Adrian Choat
6.98 Anton Segner
6.35 Kaylum Boshier
5.26 Dalton Papali'i
5.13 Oliver Haig
4.99 Veveni Lasaqa@brodean said in Blues 2025:
Well that's your speculation.
As always, the key is in the words that we use.
@Mauss said in Blues 2025:
Yeah, I think that first Test against Argentina...
Seems pretty speculative indeed.
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My guess on Papalii is that they will play Ardie at 7.
In that case, selecting Paps means completely changing the balance of the loose forward trio to play him. Kirifi is a good like-for-like replacement for Ardie (as a 7).
If that is the start point, the balance of the backrow needs size at 6 and workrate from 8, but Paps doesn't really play either - he's been (until now) very much a 7 who can move, as opposed to a utility.
He'll lose out to Jacobson who makes sense as the second best Sititi style 8. Arguably that player could also be Sotutu, but let's put that side for now.
At 6, they want size, and they've saved a spot which will be covered by Vaaii until our Chiefs boy is fit.
It's shit for Paps, but at least it appears that they have a plan for the loosies and only plan to carry one utility. On form and utility value, I can see why that is Jacobson.
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Could be absolutely nothing, could just be the social team's work, but it is curious that the squad announcement on the All Blacks website seems to group players into their position (and then ordered by experience, except in the case of Ratima and Roigard). And the order of the loose forwards suggests Finau is a 6, Kirifi and Savea are 7s, and Sititi and Jacobson are 8s.
But as I say, could be absolutely nothing.
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@SouthernMann what the warriors can do is offer players money straight out of school, something academies have never done. Hard not to turn down cash at that age. Comes down to how much a player backs themselves in an academy really doesn’t it
@Landers92 said in Blues 2025:
@SouthernMann what the warriors can do is offer players money straight out of school, something academies have never done. Hard not to turn down cash at that age. Comes down to how much a player backs themselves in an academy really doesn’t it
Not reading the Reddit, but some thought beyond the playing career may be appropriate. Look at the doors rugby can open across Europe and the world that League may not.
Kid's got to weigh up how far he thinks he may go.
Works in all sorts of ways Look at ENS. Got out of his league contract but hasn't kicked on as I'm sure he hoped he might.
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@Landers92 said in Blues 2025:
@SouthernMann what the warriors can do is offer players money straight out of school, something academies have never done. Hard not to turn down cash at that age. Comes down to how much a player backs themselves in an academy really doesn’t it
Not reading the Reddit, but some thought beyond the playing career may be appropriate. Look at the doors rugby can open across Europe and the world that League may not.
Kid's got to weigh up how far he thinks he may go.
Works in all sorts of ways Look at ENS. Got out of his league contract but hasn't kicked on as I'm sure he hoped he might.
@booboo said in Blues 2025:
@Landers92 said in Blues 2025:
@SouthernMann what the warriors can do is offer players money straight out of school, something academies have never done. Hard not to turn down cash at that age. Comes down to how much a player backs themselves in an academy really doesn’t it
Not reading the Reddit, but some thought beyond the playing career may be appropriate. Look at the doors rugby can open across Europe and the world that League may not.
Kid's got to weigh up how far he thinks he may go.
Works in all sorts of ways Look at ENS. Got out of his league contract but hasn't kicked on as I'm sure he hoped he might.
Injuries haven't been kind to ENS.
I'd still have him at the Blues
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@Mauss said in Blues 2025:
@brodean said in Blues 2025:
He broke his thumb.
He was fit for the 2nd Springbok Test and wasn't picked. He isn't picked now. I think it's good to try to understand why.
Well that's your speculation. They wanted to give Cane a go. He did his hammy in the Counties game and then was done for the rest of tyear.
My speculation is that his game is too much slanted towards cleans and defence which suits the Blues game plan but not the game that Razor wants. Not enough carries and not enough jackling. His game lacks balance in his workrate.
He topped the tackles and total rucks but he is one of the lowest carriers per 80 minutes from New Zealand loose forwards..
Tom Christie and Adrian Choat ffs carry more than him and he's a much better carrier than either of them.
His playing weight for the last two seasons at the Blues is 114kg so I don't see any need for him to put on more weight. If anything he's got too much weight for openside - it's to help with the cleans but I think it would hinder his carry ability and agility.
Jacobson, Kirifi and Lakai are carrying twice as much.
Carries Per 80 Minutes
18.77 Wallace Sititi
14.16 Vaiolini Ekuasi
13.87 Peter Lakai
12.71 Hoskins Sotutu
12.62 Ardie Savea
11.72 Christian Lio-Willie
11.21 Brayden Iose
10.55 Ethan Blackadder
10.34 Corey Kellow
10.28 Luke Jacobson
9.85 Du'Plessis Kirifi
9.43 Simon Parker
8.95 Hugh Renton
8.85 TK Howden
8.69 Reed Prinsep
8.64 Tom Christie
8.4 Cullen Grace
8.22 Sean Withy
7.94 Samipeni Finau
7.62 Jahrome Brown
7.58 Adrian Choat
6.98 Anton Segner
6.35 Kaylum Boshier
5.26 Dalton Papali'i
5.13 Oliver Haig
4.99 Veveni LasaqaHis playing weight for the last two seasons at the Blues is 114kg so I don't see any need for him to put on more weight. If anything he's got too much weight for openside - it's to help with the cleans but I think it would hinder his carry ability and agility.
Agree. I think he's gotten too big.
His agility around the park was one of his best assets.
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@booboo said in Blues 2025:
@Landers92 said in Blues 2025:
@SouthernMann what the warriors can do is offer players money straight out of school, something academies have never done. Hard not to turn down cash at that age. Comes down to how much a player backs themselves in an academy really doesn’t it
Not reading the Reddit, but some thought beyond the playing career may be appropriate. Look at the doors rugby can open across Europe and the world that League may not.
Kid's got to weigh up how far he thinks he may go.
Works in all sorts of ways Look at ENS. Got out of his league contract but hasn't kicked on as I'm sure he hoped he might.
Injuries haven't been kind to ENS.
I'd still have him at the Blues
@brodean said in Blues 2025:
@booboo said in Blues 2025:
@Landers92 said in Blues 2025:
@SouthernMann what the warriors can do is offer players money straight out of school, something academies have never done. Hard not to turn down cash at that age. Comes down to how much a player backs themselves in an academy really doesn’t it
Not reading the Reddit, but some thought beyond the playing career may be appropriate. Look at the doors rugby can open across Europe and the world that League may not.
Kid's got to weigh up how far he thinks he may go.
Works in all sorts of ways Look at ENS. Got out of his league contract but hasn't kicked on as I'm sure he hoped he might.
Injuries haven't been kind to ENS.
I'd still have him at the Blues
Assuming he stays injury free, he'll likely get a relatively uninterrupted run at fullback for the Chiefs next year. Only spanner, as always, is if McKenzie is given game time at 15 - which he hopefully isn't.
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Cullen Grace would be a good get. He's been doing well off the bench and would be a good option at 6.
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Cullen Grace would be a good get. He's been doing well off the bench and would be a good option at 6.
@brodean said in Blues 2025:
Cullen Grace would be a good get. He's been doing well off the bench and would be a good option at 6.
@Tim and @Duluth would approve, they're both huge fans of him.
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@brodean said in Blues 2025:
Cullen Grace would be a good get. He's been doing well off the bench and would be a good option at 6.
@Tim and @Duluth would approve, they're both huge fans of him.
@African-Monkey said in Blues 2025:
@brodean said in Blues 2025:
Cullen Grace would be a good get. He's been doing well off the bench and would be a good option at 6.
@Tim and @Duluth would approve, they're both huge fans of him.
I'm not suggesting he should be in the All Blacks. He has experience in multiple title wins and has had plenty of good games at Super level. Darry and Romano have been good for us.
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Cullen Grace would be a good get. He's been doing well off the bench and would be a good option at 6.
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Cam Christie is already better and has more upside. Clark is a guy that might kick on after he adds more muscle to his frame
@Duluth Those guys are already in the squad. We need to replace Choat and Suafoa to round out the squad.
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Cullen Grace would be a good get. He's been doing well off the bench and would be a good option at 6.
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@brodean said in Blues 2025:
brodean
wrote 2 days ago
last edited by
Cullen Grace would be a good get. He's been doing well off the benchI don't think he has been doing well off the bench. I think he's been anonymous.
@KiwiMurph I guess some people only see what they want to see. Came on in both the semi final and the final and did what he does best, carry hard and fast into contact and win line-outs. It was only a few years ago when he was the main component of the lineout in the final against the Blues at Eden Park and was praised for his ability to disrupt the opposition ball. I noticed him come off the bench in these last two games and have that same presence at lineout time. And in the final despite apparently being anaonymous, I recall him instantly taking about three carries as soon as he came on the field and all being strong through contact and breaking the advantage line.
