WR U20 Championship 2025
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@MJonesfan said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
Still can't believe how a team, key to the development of ABs and other senior levels of rugby in NZ, have departed the shores without a head coach?
If there wasn't an alignment between the assistants and Haig it probably made no sense to bring someone in now who might not have the same ideas about how the team plays. Sexton might just be repeating the same mistake.
@Bovidae, what so leave one of our premier national teams without a Senior coach and leave them to a grouping of co-coaches who have never held a senior head coaching position? They had at least a month to bring in someone senior to at least give some direction, instead exactly how do you get a unified voice around tactics - if the job is shared? Last time I recall something like this was job sharing between Grizz Wyllie and John Hart at the 91 WC and that did not exactly go well either.
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@Mr-Fish said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
Without sounding like a dolt, what is it that's had everyone gushing about Pledger as the second coming at halfback if he can't, you know, pass?
I have no idea where this notion that Pledger's passing is poor has come from. He is an excellent passer, with consistent technique, quick service and excellent decision-making at picking out his options.
Here, after Vaenuku made a clean break, Pledger makes use of the fast recycle to pick out a running Pole, putting him perfectly through the gap:
His service got poorer against Italy as the game wore on, presumably because he was suffering from the heat, just as everyone else was. Does he throw a poor pass at times? Sure. But in my view, his passing is considerably better than both Ratima's and Hotham's, when they were at age grade level.
If there are improvements to be made to his game, I'd say his kicking (both long and contestable) needs the most improvement, as his execution and selection of kicks can be pretty inconsistent.
As to why he's so highly rated, that usually becomes clear pretty quickly when watching him play:
https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExMzg2NThnaDZlbDgzYnRyc2NydXA5dWhseTBpeTR4Z2Jid25oczA4aCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/jn4nIivqbXFqNCsh0i/giphy.gif
https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExa2owazN0a3Byc3A3djV2Ymg4Z241bHhpc216bHV5bmdqbXg2YTJ1diZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/hHoVEQmsz3hp7mrPTX/giphy.gifThat's a 14 point swing, within the span of a minute, put together by just the one player.
@Mauss You rightly pick up how impressive Pledger was in his general play, and that defensive play was great, but as a half-back, many balls in extremely tough conditions were landing at players' feet - can blame it on fatigue or conditions, however they occurred and made it difficult for the team. So he needs to work on it - either a fitness or skill level but you don't really want to see passes arriving at players feet.
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@Mauss You rightly pick up how impressive Pledger was in his general play, and that defensive play was great, but as a half-back, many balls in extremely tough conditions were landing at players' feet - can blame it on fatigue or conditions, however they occurred and made it difficult for the team. So he needs to work on it - either a fitness or skill level but you don't really want to see passes arriving at players feet.
@MJonesfan said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
@Mauss You rightly pick up how impressive Pledger was in his general play, and that defensive play was great, but as a half-back, many balls in extremely tough conditions were landing at players' feet - can blame it on fatigue or conditions, however they occurred and made it difficult for the team. So he needs to work on it - either a fitness or skill level but you don't really want to see passes arriving at players feet.
During my rewatch of the game - it was strangely better than I remembered - I just didn't see anything from Pledger that would indicate an issue with his passing. If anything, I thought the quality of halfback passing was poorer when Tamati came on, as he threw several passes behind his intended receivers. So that's just where my confusion comes from, but I'll leave it at that.
Speaking of the coaching issue, I never really got a response as to why they showed Chris Boyd as the head coach of the NZ U20s before the game (see pic below).
Was it just some shoddy research work by the production crew? Still seems strange that they'd end up with Boyd, who hasn't been the coach since 2014.
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@MJonesfan said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
@Mauss You rightly pick up how impressive Pledger was in his general play, and that defensive play was great, but as a half-back, many balls in extremely tough conditions were landing at players' feet - can blame it on fatigue or conditions, however they occurred and made it difficult for the team. So he needs to work on it - either a fitness or skill level but you don't really want to see passes arriving at players feet.
During my rewatch of the game - it was strangely better than I remembered - I just didn't see anything from Pledger that would indicate an issue with his passing. If anything, I thought the quality of halfback passing was poorer when Tamati came on, as he threw several passes behind his intended receivers. So that's just where my confusion comes from, but I'll leave it at that.
Speaking of the coaching issue, I never really got a response as to why they showed Chris Boyd as the head coach of the NZ U20s before the game (see pic below).
Was it just some shoddy research work by the production crew? Still seems strange that they'd end up with Boyd, who hasn't been the coach since 2014.
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@brodean said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
@Mauss maybe Boyd's the coach again?
No he is not involved he still was Performance Consultant for Munster, he left that job in May I understand Robertson and Hoatea took over as joint coaches.
For this WC. -
So, listened to TJ talking to Devlin on his podcast.
Reckons NZ's kicking game was excellent and pinned the Eyeties back into their territory, despite poor ball handling.
Haven't watched the game but interested in opinions of those who did.
Frankly I'm thinking the Eyeties nowadays would be thought of as a threat, and given TJ's thoughts as above were we really that bad, or are our prejudices affecting our opinions?
Didn't we just beat the almighty Seffricans in Seffrica?
Are we over reacting just a smidge?
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So, listened to TJ talking to Devlin on his podcast.
Reckons NZ's kicking game was excellent and pinned the Eyeties back into their territory, despite poor ball handling.
Haven't watched the game but interested in opinions of those who did.
Frankly I'm thinking the Eyeties nowadays would be thought of as a threat, and given TJ's thoughts as above were we really that bad, or are our prejudices affecting our opinions?
Didn't we just beat the almighty Seffricans in Seffrica?
Are we over reacting just a smidge?
@booboo said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
Frankly I'm thinking the Eyeties nowadays would be thought of as a threat, and given TJ's thoughts as above were we really that bad, or are our prejudices affecting our opinions?
While I think the Italy U20s defended admirably and clearly had done their homework on the NZ U20s' attacking structures, there were still a lot of unforced errors from the Baby Blacks (I'm still going to keep using the term because I don't want to write 'NZ U20s' over and over; yes, I am concerned with reading experience!).
And I do think that's a step backwards because some of the standout traits of their TRC U20 campaign were the quality of their handling, their patience in attack and a lack of unforced turnovers.
So yes, the Italians played well but the NZ U20s still should've been a lot more clinical. They had several possessions in the Italy 22 in which they were in an excellent position to finish but were held up (lack of patience) or they turned the ball over cheaply by going for an offload that wasn't on. So some clear areas in which they need to be better if they're going to have a good tournament.
Agreed with TJ that the kicking game was good.
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@booboo said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
Frankly I'm thinking the Eyeties nowadays would be thought of as a threat, and given TJ's thoughts as above were we really that bad, or are our prejudices affecting our opinions?
While I think the Italy U20s defended admirably and clearly had done their homework on the NZ U20s' attacking structures, there were still a lot of unforced errors from the Baby Blacks (I'm still going to keep using the term because I don't want to write 'NZ U20s' over and over; yes, I am concerned with reading experience!).
And I do think that's a step backwards because some of the standout traits of their TRC U20 campaign were the quality of their handling, their patience in attack and a lack of unforced turnovers.
So yes, the Italians played well but the NZ U20s still should've been a lot more clinical. They had several possessions in the Italy 22 in which they were in an excellent position to finish but were held up (lack of patience) or they turned the ball over cheaply by going for an offload that wasn't on. So some clear areas in which they need to be better if they're going to have a good tournament.
Agreed with TJ that the kicking game was good.
@Mauss said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
@booboo said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
Frankly I'm thinking the Eyeties nowadays would be thought of as a threat, and given TJ's thoughts as above were we really that bad, or are our prejudices affecting our opinions?
While I think the Italy U20s defended admirably and clearly had done their homework on the NZ U20s' attacking structures, there were still a lot of unforced errors from the Baby Blacks (I'm still going to keep using the term because I don't want to write 'NZ U20s' over and over; yes, I am concerned with reading experience!).
And I do think that's a step backwards because some of the standout traits of their TRC U20 campaign were the quality of their handling, their patience in attack and a lack of unforced turnovers.
So yes, the Italians played well but the NZ U20s still should've been a lot more clinical. They had several possessions in the Italy 22 in which they were in an excellent position to finish but were held up (lack of patience) or they turned the ball over cheaply by going for an offload that wasn't on. So some clear areas in which they need to be better if they're going to have a good tournament.
Agreed with TJ that the kicking game was good.
So, not "the worst team" ever"?
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@Mauss said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
@booboo said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
Frankly I'm thinking the Eyeties nowadays would be thought of as a threat, and given TJ's thoughts as above were we really that bad, or are our prejudices affecting our opinions?
While I think the Italy U20s defended admirably and clearly had done their homework on the NZ U20s' attacking structures, there were still a lot of unforced errors from the Baby Blacks (I'm still going to keep using the term because I don't want to write 'NZ U20s' over and over; yes, I am concerned with reading experience!).
And I do think that's a step backwards because some of the standout traits of their TRC U20 campaign were the quality of their handling, their patience in attack and a lack of unforced turnovers.
So yes, the Italians played well but the NZ U20s still should've been a lot more clinical. They had several possessions in the Italy 22 in which they were in an excellent position to finish but were held up (lack of patience) or they turned the ball over cheaply by going for an offload that wasn't on. So some clear areas in which they need to be better if they're going to have a good tournament.
Agreed with TJ that the kicking game was good.
So, not "the worst team" ever"?
@booboo said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
So, not "the worst team" ever"?
Ha, no, I don't think that at all. To me, they look pretty decently coached (they had identified Italy's threat at maul time and were able to effectively nullify them there) and I think there's plenty of talent throughout the side.
The Italy game was a frustrating watch so I can understand some of the more extreme takes. But I don't think they're warranted. The team's weaknesses - a frail scrum, a lack of squad depth in the tight five, occasionally weak defence - are rather typical of an NZ U20 side.
Their main challenge will be to replace Tengblad's ability and work rate at set-piece and the breakdown. If they can do that, as well as integrate a talent like Mathis into the side without disrupting the team's rhythm, I think they can do very well in the tournament.
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Believe he might have played six during his stint in Christchurch club a few weeks ago
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Yup, Mathis has played 6 a couple of times for his club in Christchurch. Mixed in with one game at 7 and another game on the wing.
@Landers92 said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
Yup, Mathis has played 6 a couple of times for his club in Christchurch. Mixed in with one game at 7 and another game on the wing.
He will be a really useful acquisition for the Crusaders next year.
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@Landers92 said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
Yup, Mathis has played 6 a couple of times for his club in Christchurch. Mixed in with one game at 7 and another game on the wing.
He will be a really useful acquisition for the Crusaders next year.
@SouthernMann said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
@Landers92 said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
Yup, Mathis has played 6 a couple of times for his club in Christchurch. Mixed in with one game at 7 and another game on the wing.
He will be a really useful acquisition for the Crusaders next year.
Dislike.
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That's a very short loose forward trio, and I don't remember Mathis ever playing 6, only 7 and 8.
@Bovidae said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
That's a very short loose forward trio, and I don't remember Mathis ever playing 6, only 7 and 8.
Uhm, have you seen the size of Woodley?!
All.rugby is usually pretty reliable so I’m not sure what’s happened there. But yeah, it is a short backrow. If the lineout becomes a disaster, then I guess McLeod will be quick to come off the bench, perhaps for someone like Woodley (who's more 1.80 m rather than 1.97...).
I think Fale has a real opportunity to stake a claim for the number 8-jersey. Bason is a talented player but he’s been too quiet in most games for my liking (he was good against the Junior Boks). The game against Italy was a slog between the two packs yet he wasn’t nearly prominent enough. If Fale performs against Georgia and can deliver a solid 50 minutes, I think there’s a good chance he’ll keep the jersey.
And finally, I like the backline but I hope that the coaching group is clear on who they see as their first-choice first five, whether it’s Simpson or Cole. I don’t think it’s a position where you can afford much rotation, especially with an attack as elaborate as that of the NZ U20s. Simpson kicked well against Italy, together with Cole, and they made sure not to overplay in attack. He’ll need to display similar patience against Georgia, together with Solomon, in what will most likely be challenging conditions once again.
