All Blacks v France I
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
McKenzie is a better 10
This was not apparent in the Super Rugby playoffs.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
McKenzie is a better 10
This was not apparent in the Super Rugby playoffs.
I think the playoffs suggested that neither of those guys are the answer at 10. Of course in a different team one or other might shine in black. But I won't hold my breath. And I don't want them to have stellar games playing harem scarem against this French side. I want to see a bit more control and authority in the pilot's chair
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
McKenzie is a better 10
This was not apparent in the Super Rugby playoffs.
And Barrett did what? A couple of chip kicks for himself which got people excited - but he's done those sporadically forever, because he's been a very good outside back. Still showed no ability as either a playmaking or kicking 10.
I think it was apparent that McKenzie is superior throughout Super, and in international rugby last year - and even pre 2023 WC. You can't draw conclusions on small selected samples, otherwise week 1 playoff Hoskins is a legend, week 2 he's a useless piece of shit. And if playoffs are the be-all, where are our cantablacks?@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
You can't draw conclusions on small selected samples, otherwise week 1 playoff Hoskins is a legend, week 2 he's a useless piece of shit. And if playoffs are the be-all, where are our cantablacks?
I'm talking about this notion of DMac being the answer - not disputing Beauden has his issues too.
The fact is DMac has come up small 3 playoff years in a row.
I blame Laidlaw for not keeping Love at 10 this year and I'm championing Reihana - Reihana would have been in my AB squad - I would have done something like name him in the squad but release him for the Maori ABs and then have him rejoin the AB squad.
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@Chris said in All Blacks v France I:
Yeah I watched all the Blues games Barrett did play well for the Blues apart from the odd silly mistake.
I watched most.
Beauden's long range kicking, and especially his exit plays, were terrible. This is one area DMac has it all over him, and he has his poor moments. We will never match the top international teams if we simply cannot get out of our 22 properly.
The Blues did not play better once he got back in the team, quite the contrary -- that is, he's no better than Plummer or Perofeta. In particular, the Blues centres scored almost no tries this year, despite a hard-working forward pack, because BB doesn't set up a back-line very well. It's no coincidence that the All Black back-line becomes similarly dry in tries when he has taken over.
How many times do we have to repeat the end of last year, where we are going OK under McKenzie, only to replace him with Barrett and then get worse? How does our sudden improvement once Beauden was replaced by Mo'unga get ignored?
I get that DMc is not the sort of player that everyone likes. But at least he is good for the other backs to run off, and gives us options other than poor chips, mid-field bombs and cross-kicks.
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v France I:
@Chris said in All Blacks v France I:
Yeah I watched all the Blues games Barrett did play well for the Blues apart from the odd silly mistake.
I watched most.
Beauden's long range kicking, and especially his exit plays, were terrible. This is one area DMac has it all over him, and he has his poor moments. We will never match the top international teams if we simply cannot get out of our 22 properly.
The Blues did not play better once he got back in the team, quite the contrary -- that is, he's no better than Plummer or Perofeta. In particular, the Blues centres scored almost no tries this year, despite a hard-working forward pack, because BB doesn't set up a back-line very well. It's no coincidence that the All Black back-line becomes similarly dry in tries when he has taken over.
How many times do we have to repeat the end of last year, where we are going OK under McKenzie, only to replace him with Barrett and then get worse? How does our sudden improvement once Beauden was replaced by Mo'unga get ignored?
I get that DMc is not the sort of player that everyone likes. But at least he is good for the other backs to run off, and gives us options other than poor chips, mid-field bombs and cross-kicks.
Yeah I agree Barret makes play for himself before others, I don’t believe he will transfer enough at his age to internationals that will win us big games as I mentioned in my post .
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@brodean said in All Blacks v France I:
Beauden Barrett is 34 now.
Have we really become that desperate as a rugby nation that we can't try an exciting young prospect like Reuben Love against France B? He didn't even make the 23.
Beauden Barrett in 2027 will be the same age as Jonny Sexton was in 2023.
If Razor wants to be innovative and forward thinking, he really needs to throw Ruben Love the 10 jersey in the third test once we've hopefully sealed the deal. At the very least, Ruben really needs to get some time off the bench to stake his claim. We definitely can't go into a WC with Beauden at the helm.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v France I:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France I:
Beauden Barrett is 34 now.
Have we really become that desperate as a rugby nation that we can't try an exciting young prospect like Reuben Love against France B? He didn't even make the 23.
Beauden Barrett in 2027 will be the same age as Jonny Sexton was in 2023.
If Razor wants to be innovative and forward thinking, he really needs to throw Ruben Love the 10 jersey in the third test once we've hopefully sealed the deal. At the very least, Ruben really needs to get some time off the bench to stake his claim. We definitely can't go into a WC with Beauden at the helm.
We need the incumbents to pull their hammies.
If Sasha and Libbock were Allblacks they would have had the odd run out at 15 and we would be persisting with Francois Steyn and Handre Pollard at 10.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
You can't draw conclusions on small selected samples, otherwise week 1 playoff Hoskins is a legend, week 2 he's a useless piece of shit. And if playoffs are the be-all, where are our cantablacks?
I'm talking about this notion of DMac being the answer - not disputing Beauden has his issues too.
The fact is DMac has come up small 3 playoff years in a row.
I blame Laidlaw for not keeping Love at 10 this year and I'm championing Reihana - Reihana would have been in my AB squad - I would have done something like name him in the squad but release him for the Maori ABs and then have him rejoin the AB squad.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
You can't draw conclusions on small selected samples, otherwise week 1 playoff Hoskins is a legend, week 2 he's a useless piece of shit. And if playoffs are the be-all, where are our cantablacks?
I'm talking about this notion of DMac being the answer - not disputing Beauden has his issues too.
The fact is DMac has come up small 3 playoff years in a row.
I blame Laidlaw for not keeping Love at 10 this year and I'm championing Reihana - Reihana would have been in my AB squad - I would have done something like name him in the squad but release him for the Maori ABs and then have him rejoin the AB squad.
The difference is that Beauden has had years and years - that improvement is clearly never happening.
How many tests has McKenzie actually started at 10? And in far fewer opportunities he has shown glimpses of what we need - the attacking first half of Boks 1 last year, the improved control vs Ireland etc. -
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
You can't draw conclusions on small selected samples, otherwise week 1 playoff Hoskins is a legend, week 2 he's a useless piece of shit. And if playoffs are the be-all, where are our cantablacks?
I'm talking about this notion of DMac being the answer - not disputing Beauden has his issues too.
The fact is DMac has come up small 3 playoff years in a row.
I blame Laidlaw for not keeping Love at 10 this year and I'm championing Reihana - Reihana would have been in my AB squad - I would have done something like name him in the squad but release him for the Maori ABs and then have him rejoin the AB squad.
The difference is that Beauden has had years and years - that improvement is clearly never happening.
How many tests has McKenzie actually started at 10? And in far fewer opportunities he has shown glimpses of what we need - the attacking first half of Boks 1 last year, the improved control vs Ireland etc.@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
You can't draw conclusions on small selected samples, otherwise week 1 playoff Hoskins is a legend, week 2 he's a useless piece of shit. And if playoffs are the be-all, where are our cantablacks?
I'm talking about this notion of DMac being the answer - not disputing Beauden has his issues too.
The fact is DMac has come up small 3 playoff years in a row.
I blame Laidlaw for not keeping Love at 10 this year and I'm championing Reihana - Reihana would have been in my AB squad - I would have done something like name him in the squad but release him for the Maori ABs and then have him rejoin the AB squad.
The difference is that Beauden has had years and years - that improvement is clearly never happening.
How many tests has McKenzie actually started at 10? And in far fewer opportunities he has shown glimpses of what we need - the attacking first half of Boks 1 last year, the improved control vs Ireland etc.Beauden was neutered once the dual pivot shite started. Initially with DMAC at 15 until he did his ACL and then with Mounga.
We deify our 10's historically and Beaudy was THE MAN going into the 2017 Lions tour.
Once the dual pivot stuff started that was the end of him. We took the keys to the castle away. A tacit vote of no confidence.
Love to me is a gun, with plenty of X-factor. He should have way more runs on the board at this stage. Reihana now knocking on the door too.
I cannot believe Razor is persisting with this Hokey Cokey act at 10 between DMAC and Beuady. Id rather he picked one and stuck with them even if it was the wrong choice. This chopping and changing serves neither of them.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
You can't draw conclusions on small selected samples, otherwise week 1 playoff Hoskins is a legend, week 2 he's a useless piece of shit. And if playoffs are the be-all, where are our cantablacks?
I'm talking about this notion of DMac being the answer - not disputing Beauden has his issues too.
The fact is DMac has come up small 3 playoff years in a row.
I blame Laidlaw for not keeping Love at 10 this year and I'm championing Reihana - Reihana would have been in my AB squad - I would have done something like name him in the squad but release him for the Maori ABs and then have him rejoin the AB squad.
The difference is that Beauden has had years and years - that improvement is clearly never happening.
How many tests has McKenzie actually started at 10? And in far fewer opportunities he has shown glimpses of what we need - the attacking first half of Boks 1 last year, the improved control vs Ireland etc.Beauden was neutered once the dual pivot shite started. Initially with DMAC at 15 until he did his ACL and then with Mounga.
We deify our 10's historically and Beaudy was THE MAN going into the 2017 Lions tour.
Once the dual pivot stuff started that was the end of him. We took the keys to the castle away. A tacit vote of no confidence.
Love to me is a gun, with plenty of X-factor. He should have way more runs on the board at this stage. Reihana now knocking on the door too.
I cannot believe Razor is persisting with this Hokey Cokey act at 10 between DMAC and Beuady. Id rather he picked one and stuck with them even if it was the wrong choice. This chopping and changing serves neither of them.
@Jet said in All Blacks v France I:
this Hokey Cokey act at 10 between DMAC and Beuady. Id rather he picked one and stuck with them even if it was the wrong choice. This chopping and changing serves neither of them
BB started at 10 on the EOYT apart from one game when he was unavailable. He was clearly the incumbent and he is starting again this week
I think McKenzie was preferred earlier in 2024 but it seems that the rankings changed during the RC
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@Jet said in All Blacks v France I:
this Hokey Cokey act at 10 between DMAC and Beuady. Id rather he picked one and stuck with them even if it was the wrong choice. This chopping and changing serves neither of them
BB started at 10 on the EOYT apart from one game when he was unavailable. He was clearly the incumbent and he is starting again this week
I think McKenzie was preferred earlier in 2024 but it seems that the rankings changed during the RC
@Duluth said in All Blacks v France I:
@Jet said in All Blacks v France I:
this Hokey Cokey act at 10 between DMAC and Beuady. Id rather he picked one and stuck with them even if it was the wrong choice. This chopping and changing serves neither of them
BB started at 10 on the EOYT apart from one game when he was unavailable. He was clearly the incumbent and he is starting again this week
I think McKenzie was preferred earlier in 2024 but it seems that the rankings changed during the RC
Yup, our best game.
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:
Surised to see Barrett at 10, the golden sun continues to shine out of his *ss. Looking forward to 20m touch finders and pointless chip kicks.
I have heard some commentators say that BB has had a better season than Damien. What it I remember from the season is a completely disfunctional Blues backline and repeated throwaway comments about the variation in his kicking game. All I see is a guy that kicks - a lot, leading an underperforming backline.
Damien had a shocker against Waratahs ( I think ) but was generally great during the year. Chiefs backline was awesome. Came finals time he didn’t play badly but didn’t dominate. Missed 2 kicks in final.
So in the end they prefer someone that is less mercurial - less up and down. Still think this is Damien’s position to win if he gets the chance. If he can play like he did against Ireland and not have too many brain explosions.
In the meantime we are left with BB and his kicking game.
@kev said in All Blacks v France I:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks Vs France, Test One, Dunedin:
Surised to see Barrett at 10, the golden sun continues to shine out of his *ss. Looking forward to 20m touch finders and pointless chip kicks.
I have heard some commentators say that BB has had a better season than Damien. What it I remember from the season is a completely disfunctional Blues backline and repeated throwaway comments about the variation in his kicking game. All I see is a guy that kicks - a lot, leading an underperforming backline.
Damien had a shocker against Waratahs ( I think ) but was generally great during the year. Chiefs backline was awesome. Came finals time he didn’t play badly but didn’t dominate. Missed 2 kicks in final.
So in the end they prefer someone that is less mercurial - less up and down. Still think this is Damien’s position to win if he gets the chance. If he can play like he did against Ireland and not have too many brain explosions.
In the meantime we are left with BB and his kicking game.
Honestly mate I don't get it, at least DMac with his boot can get us into the right areas of the field.
All BB's kicking game does is keep us trapped in our own half, having Jordan at the back isn't going to help the kicking game either.
It seems as soon as DMac misses a couple of kicks he's put on the reserve bench for a guy who's kicking accuray is no better off the tee and can kick the ball down the field half the distance.
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Seems to me the Crusaders spent a lot of time and effort to quieten DMac, they seemed (in the final) to take his worth a lot more seriously than some posters on here.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France I:
Seems to me the Crusaders spent a lot of time and effort to quieten DMac, they seemed (in the final) to take his worth a lot more seriously than some posters on here.
I think it's more what @Canerbry was saying, they knew if they put some heat on him he'd wilt and not have much of an impact on the match, which is what happened.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks v France I:
@Jet said in All Blacks v France I:
this Hokey Cokey act at 10 between DMAC and Beuady. Id rather he picked one and stuck with them even if it was the wrong choice. This chopping and changing serves neither of them
BB started at 10 on the EOYT apart from one game when he was unavailable. He was clearly the incumbent and he is starting again this week
I think McKenzie was preferred earlier in 2024 but it seems that the rankings changed during the RC
Yup, our best game.
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
@Duluth said in All Blacks v France I:
@Jet said in All Blacks v France I:
this Hokey Cokey act at 10 between DMAC and Beuady. Id rather he picked one and stuck with them even if it was the wrong choice. This chopping and changing serves neither of them
BB started at 10 on the EOYT apart from one game when he was unavailable. He was clearly the incumbent and he is starting again this week
I think McKenzie was preferred earlier in 2024 but it seems that the rankings changed during the RC
Yup, our best game.
It was a good win, but I can't really overstate just how poor Ireland were that night. That was the most error ridden performance I've ever seen from them, if they were even 10% more accurate they would have won.
Edit - just went and checked to confirm my memory was correct, as that game gets mentioned a lot. Some numbers:
Ireland's error-strewn performance
13 penalties conceded
30 missed tackles
21 handling errors
11 turnovers conceded
5 rucks lost
3 line-outs lost
1 scrum lostSo yeah, we need to take that win in context, most of the talk after the match was positive that the ABs managed to win, but acknowledging how bad Ireland were. They basically checked out in the final 10 when they were still in the game.
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I'll finish my comments with: if it were up to me, I'd have started DMac and had Beauden on the bench. But there really isn't much between the two players, and I can see why the coaches prefer Beauden's more direct running style over DMac who still tends to crab across field which works in Super but you just cannot do in test footy.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
@Duluth said in All Blacks v France I:
@Jet said in All Blacks v France I:
this Hokey Cokey act at 10 between DMAC and Beuady. Id rather he picked one and stuck with them even if it was the wrong choice. This chopping and changing serves neither of them
BB started at 10 on the EOYT apart from one game when he was unavailable. He was clearly the incumbent and he is starting again this week
I think McKenzie was preferred earlier in 2024 but it seems that the rankings changed during the RC
Yup, our best game.
It was a good win, but I can't really overstate just how poor Ireland were that night. That was the most error ridden performance I've ever seen from them, if they were even 10% more accurate they would have won.
Edit - just went and checked to confirm my memory was correct, as that game gets mentioned a lot. Some numbers:
Ireland's error-strewn performance
13 penalties conceded
30 missed tackles
21 handling errors
11 turnovers conceded
5 rucks lost
3 line-outs lost
1 scrum lostSo yeah, we need to take that win in context, most of the talk after the match was positive that the ABs managed to win, but acknowledging how bad Ireland were. They basically checked out in the final 10 when they were still in the game.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v France I:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
@Duluth said in All Blacks v France I:
@Jet said in All Blacks v France I:
this Hokey Cokey act at 10 between DMAC and Beuady. Id rather he picked one and stuck with them even if it was the wrong choice. This chopping and changing serves neither of them
BB started at 10 on the EOYT apart from one game when he was unavailable. He was clearly the incumbent and he is starting again this week
I think McKenzie was preferred earlier in 2024 but it seems that the rankings changed during the RC
Yup, our best game.
It was a good win, but I can't really overstate just how poor Ireland were that night. That was the most error ridden performance I've ever seen from them, if they were even 10% more accurate they would have won.
Edit - just went and checked to confirm my memory was correct, as that game gets mentioned a lot. Some numbers:
Ireland's error-strewn performance
13 penalties conceded
30 missed tackles
21 handling errors
11 turnovers conceded
5 rucks lost
3 line-outs lost
1 scrum lostSo yeah, we need to take that win in context, most of the talk after the match was positive that the ABs managed to win, but acknowledging how bad Ireland were. They basically checked out in the final 10 when they were still in the game.
You also need to take into account that the way we played defensively was quite different to what we had seen in some of the previous tests last year. We compressed and also attacked the first receiver forcing more rushed passing and errors. What that also allowed for was a more attacking play at the ruck to get bodies over the ball in behind their attack line.
Then our more direct attack was tiring out their pack which is where most of the missed tackles / jersey pulling occurred.
We pressured their lineout ball which was one of the more pleasing aspects given we really had seen that since 2022.
I’m happy for people to talk about that match because I think it showed quite a few things of what we are capable of when we play to a more attacking pattern on both sides of the ball.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France I:
Seems to me the Crusaders spent a lot of time and effort to quieten DMac, they seemed (in the final) to take his worth a lot more seriously than some posters on here.
I think it's more what @Canerbry was saying, they knew if they put some heat on him he'd wilt and not have much of an impact on the match, which is what happened.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v France I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France I:
Seems to me the Crusaders spent a lot of time and effort to quieten DMac, they seemed (in the final) to take his worth a lot more seriously than some posters on here.
I think it's more what @Canerbry was saying, they knew if they put some heat on him he'd wilt and not have much of an impact on the match, which is what happened.
Whereas they didn't even need to focus on BB to beat the Blues?
That says DMc is more potent just in itself.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v France I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France I:
Seems to me the Crusaders spent a lot of time and effort to quieten DMac, they seemed (in the final) to take his worth a lot more seriously than some posters on here.
I think it's more what @Canerbry was saying, they knew if they put some heat on him he'd wilt and not have much of an impact on the match, which is what happened.
Whereas they didn't even need to focus on BB to beat the Blues?
That says DMc is more potent just in itself.
Yeah their main focus was shutting down Sotutu's time. He's the main playmaker for the Blues and even though it was less this year he still had the most try involvements.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v France I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France I:
Seems to me the Crusaders spent a lot of time and effort to quieten DMac, they seemed (in the final) to take his worth a lot more seriously than some posters on here.
I think it's more what @Canerbry was saying, they knew if they put some heat on him he'd wilt and not have much of an impact on the match, which is what happened.
Whereas they didn't even need to focus on BB to beat the Blues?
That says DMc is more potent just in itself.
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v France I:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v France I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France I:
Seems to me the Crusaders spent a lot of time and effort to quieten DMac, they seemed (in the final) to take his worth a lot more seriously than some posters on here.
I think it's more what @Canerbry was saying, they knew if they put some heat on him he'd wilt and not have much of an impact on the match, which is what happened.
Whereas they didn't even need to focus on BB to beat the Blues?
That says DMc is more potent just in itself.
Yeah you'd probably want BB to spend more time receiving the ball, without needing to pressure him - he's typically his own undoing.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v France I:
@sparky or Yogi Beria?
Taco beria -
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France I:
Seems to me the Crusaders spent a lot of time and effort to quieten DMac, they seemed (in the final) to take his worth a lot more seriously than some posters on here.
I think it's more what @Canerbry was saying, they knew if they put some heat on him he'd wilt and not have much of an impact on the match, which is what happened.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v France I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France I:
Seems to me the Crusaders spent a lot of time and effort to quieten DMac, they seemed (in the final) to take his worth a lot more seriously than some posters on here.
I think it's more what @Canerbry was saying, they knew if they put some heat on him he'd wilt and not have much of an impact on the match, which is what happened.
Why are you actually listening to that guy?!
