All Blacks v France I
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If BB was over ruling the coaches he wouldn’t be starting so often. As @reprobate said it seems clear it’s the ABs game plan. If you don’t like the tactics blame Robertson
@Duluth said in All Blacks v France I:
If BB was over ruling the coaches he wouldn’t be starting so often. As @reprobate said it seems clear it’s the ABs game plan. If you don’t like the tactics blame Robertson
I do. Just like a blamed Fozzie, and late era Shag. Cotter and Penney's game plans are more compatible for tests
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@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
I thought the obstruction call was much clearer than the knock on by proctor
Get outta here. I’m with @antipodean here
Innocuous contact on a player that had no chance to make a tackle. Worst thing about it is that it encourages all defenders to just take a dive in similar situations. Just ludicrous.
The TMO should be forced to watch the last 10 years of Ireland tests
Nah, if that French guy could run into the line he at least marks Beauden, meaning the next guy can slide. Maybe it doesn't stop the try, but the defence has been impeded.
It isn't consistently enforced unfortunately.@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
I thought the obstruction call was much clearer than the knock on by proctor
Get outta here. I’m with @antipodean here
Innocuous contact on a player that had no chance to make a tackle. Worst thing about it is that it encourages all defenders to just take a dive in similar situations. Just ludicrous.
The TMO should be forced to watch the last 10 years of Ireland tests
Nah, if that French guy could run into the line he at least marks Beauden, meaning the next guy can slide. Maybe it doesn't stop the try, but the defence has been impeded.
It isn't consistently enforced unfortunately.The defender outside of the "impeded" one stayed on his man. France were just outnumbered and got done.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
I thought the obstruction call was much clearer than the knock on by proctor
Get outta here. I’m with @antipodean here
Innocuous contact on a player that had no chance to make a tackle. Worst thing about it is that it encourages all defenders to just take a dive in similar situations. Just ludicrous.
The TMO should be forced to watch the last 10 years of Ireland tests
Nah, if that French guy could run into the line he at least marks Beauden, meaning the next guy can slide. Maybe it doesn't stop the try, but the defence has been impeded.
It isn't consistently enforced unfortunately.Sorry but that’s nonsense. There was no contact and you’re making a massive leap to suggest “he might have got there if he ran the right angle to the right spot with the right pace to enable his teammate to do something else”
The lack of contact was stark, and as I said, you’re now just going to see defenders not try to make the effort. Why would you when you can take (or wait for) a tiny bit of contact then go down in a screaming heap?
Obstruction should be clear and obvious
This was definitely not
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Our players have not got a pragmatic bone in their bodies.
Sometimes you need to just form a ruck and recycle.
Beaudy boots it away, chip kicks to nobody or grubbers it into shins.
Its the opposite of the marginal gains theory that David Brailsford implemented at team sky.
As other posters alluded to, we dont catch kicks, we kick poorly ourselves and we have too many unforced errors.
It all adds up.
@Jet said in All Blacks v France I:
Our players have not got a pragmatic bone in their bodies.
Sometimes you need to just form a ruck and recycle.
Beaudy boots it away, chip kicks to nobody or grubbers it into shins.
Its the opposite of the marginal gains theory that David Brailsford implemented at team sky.
As other posters alluded to, we dont catch kicks, we kick poorly ourselves and we have too many unforced errors.
It all adds up.
The kicking goes beyond just Beauden though, he just does it the most as he's at 10. A range of players kicked ball away, in the lead up to Proctors no-try DMac tried a stupid grubber that luckily bounced off the defenders legs back into his hands.
It's weird, since 2017 it doesn't seem to matter who the AB coach is, we just play the same stupid tactics whether it's Hansen, Foster or Razor. The only time in my memory over that period where the ABs have actually played proper test match footy was the quarter, semi and final of the last WC, and we damn near won the thing despite the referring Gods shitting on us in the final. Why isn't that the blueprint?!
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If BB was over ruling the coaches he wouldn’t be starting so often. As @reprobate said it seems clear it’s the ABs game plan. If you don’t like the tactics blame Robertson
@Duluth said in All Blacks v France I:
If BB was over ruling the coaches he wouldn’t be starting so often. As @reprobate said it seems clear it’s the ABs game plan. If you don’t like the tactics blame Robertson
Don’t completely disagree. But I also wonder if the coaches don’t think BB can play another way, but they still feel he’s the best option. Which would be pretty disappointing too
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@sparky Which is my point. Foster says in his book that the head of the referees panel at World Rugby told Jaco Peyper that four yellow cards should have been awarded against the ABs during the first test against Ireland at Eden Park in 2022 which they won 42-10.
*“I couldn’t believe World Rugby held that view of the game, and my antennae went up. It was surely a bad sign that the next Test’s match officials were being told by their boss that the All Blacks had got away with murder the week before. And, wouldn’t you know it, after 30 minutes of the Test in Dunedin, we had been shown two yellow cards and a red. It was the red card to prop Angus Ta’avao that threw the game into chaos, and highlighted rugby’s struggle to build a framework of laws that works for the modern game.”
Then, of course in the World Cup final the ABs were undone by a dubious red card decision and then a disallowed try when the TMO went back too many phases, according to the law, to judge a knock-on.
“The final was marred, as an occasion, by the inflexibility and the inadequacies of the current legislative framework around head collisions, and that was compounded by the difficulty officials have in applying the law consistently,” Foster writes. “As a sport, we have to be brave enough to admit we don’t have this area right yet. It is too often negatively impacting big games and putting people off watching rugby.”
I don’t think there is any question that officials, under the influence of senior decision-makers (who are in turn being pressured by the weight of money in northern hemisphere rugby) are policing the All Blacks differently. If happens far too frequently to be coincidental. And when you have an unassuming man like Foster, who to his credit still applauded South Africa, saying something in the administration of the sport is fundamentally broken, I think you need to sit up and pay attention.
There is no way, for instance, that three disallowed tries courtesy of TMO decisions would stand in the NRL without some official being hung from the nearest yard arm.
Rugby Union is corrupt. It still plays at being the gentleman’s game, but the money is talking.
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks v France I:
@sparky Which is my point. Foster says in his book that the head of the referees panel at World Rugby told Jaco Peyper that four yellow cards should have been awarded against the ABs during the first test against Ireland at Eden Park in 2022 which they won 42-10.
*“I couldn’t believe World Rugby held that view of the game, and my antennae went up. It was surely a bad sign that the next Test’s match officials were being told by their boss that the All Blacks had got away with murder the week before. And, wouldn’t you know it, after 30 minutes of the Test in Dunedin, we had been shown two yellow cards and a red. It was the red card to prop Angus Ta’avao that threw the game into chaos, and highlighted rugby’s struggle to build a framework of laws that works for the modern game.”
Then, of course in the World Cup final the ABs were undone by a dubious red card decision and then a disallowed try when the TMO went back too many phases, according to the law, to judge a knock-on.
“The final was marred, as an occasion, by the inflexibility and the inadequacies of the current legislative framework around head collisions, and that was compounded by the difficulty officials have in applying the law consistently,” Foster writes. “As a sport, we have to be brave enough to admit we don’t have this area right yet. It is too often negatively impacting big games and putting people off watching rugby.”
I don’t think there is any question that officials, under the influence of senior decision-makers (who are in turn being pressured by the weight of money in northern hemisphere rugby) are policing the All Blacks differently. If happens far too frequently to be coincidental. And when you have an unassuming man like Foster, who to his credit still applauded South Africa, saying something in the administration of the sport is fundamentally broken, I think you need to sit up and pay attention.
There is no way, for instance, that three disallowed tries courtesy of TMO decisions would stand in the NRL without some official being hung from the nearest yard arm.
Rugby Union is corrupt. It still plays at being the gentleman’s game, but the money is talking.
Great post......
But its why im sooooooo fucking vexed with how "we" have conducted ourselves since the 2017 Lions tour.
The only way to meet this perceived corruption is Rassie style. Bleat, make videos, meme the shit out of it like the Esterhuizen tackling practise video. Hold mirrors up to the refereeing inadequacies and inconsistencies.
If it only comes out in your autobiography its already too late.
Nice guys finish last, and we have been too nice for too long, from the top down.
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@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
There was no contact
You might want to double check who's talking nonsense.
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
There was no contact
You might want to double check who's talking nonsense.
Have checked
It’s not me
But thanks for asking
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
I thought the obstruction call was much clearer than the knock on by proctor
Get outta here. I’m with @antipodean here
Innocuous contact on a player that had no chance to make a tackle. Worst thing about it is that it encourages all defenders to just take a dive in similar situations. Just ludicrous.
The TMO should be forced to watch the last 10 years of Ireland tests
Nah, if that French guy could run into the line he at least marks Beauden, meaning the next guy can slide. Maybe it doesn't stop the try, but the defence has been impeded.
It isn't consistently enforced unfortunately.The defender outside of the "impeded" one stayed on his man. France were just outnumbered and got done.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France I:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
I thought the obstruction call was much clearer than the knock on by proctor
Get outta here. I’m with @antipodean here
Innocuous contact on a player that had no chance to make a tackle. Worst thing about it is that it encourages all defenders to just take a dive in similar situations. Just ludicrous.
The TMO should be forced to watch the last 10 years of Ireland tests
Nah, if that French guy could run into the line he at least marks Beauden, meaning the next guy can slide. Maybe it doesn't stop the try, but the defence has been impeded.
It isn't consistently enforced unfortunately.The defender outside of the "impeded" one stayed on his man. France were just outnumbered and got done.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
There was no contact
You might want to double check who's talking nonsense.
Have checked
It’s not me
But thanks for asking
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
There was no contact
You might want to double check who's talking nonsense.
Have checked
It’s not me
But thanks for asking
I checked out of reading the rest as you started with a blatant lie. Are you really saying Tosi didn't make contact? It makes anything else you try to say, redundant.
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@sparky Which is my point. Foster says in his book that the head of the referees panel at World Rugby told Jaco Peyper that four yellow cards should have been awarded against the ABs during the first test against Ireland at Eden Park in 2022 which they won 42-10.
*“I couldn’t believe World Rugby held that view of the game, and my antennae went up. It was surely a bad sign that the next Test’s match officials were being told by their boss that the All Blacks had got away with murder the week before. And, wouldn’t you know it, after 30 minutes of the Test in Dunedin, we had been shown two yellow cards and a red. It was the red card to prop Angus Ta’avao that threw the game into chaos, and highlighted rugby’s struggle to build a framework of laws that works for the modern game.”
Then, of course in the World Cup final the ABs were undone by a dubious red card decision and then a disallowed try when the TMO went back too many phases, according to the law, to judge a knock-on.
“The final was marred, as an occasion, by the inflexibility and the inadequacies of the current legislative framework around head collisions, and that was compounded by the difficulty officials have in applying the law consistently,” Foster writes. “As a sport, we have to be brave enough to admit we don’t have this area right yet. It is too often negatively impacting big games and putting people off watching rugby.”
I don’t think there is any question that officials, under the influence of senior decision-makers (who are in turn being pressured by the weight of money in northern hemisphere rugby) are policing the All Blacks differently. If happens far too frequently to be coincidental. And when you have an unassuming man like Foster, who to his credit still applauded South Africa, saying something in the administration of the sport is fundamentally broken, I think you need to sit up and pay attention.
There is no way, for instance, that three disallowed tries courtesy of TMO decisions would stand in the NRL without some official being hung from the nearest yard arm.
Rugby Union is corrupt. It still plays at being the gentleman’s game, but the money is talking.
@His-Bobness I'm not sure it's corrupt.
In fact probably the opposite. It's so obsessed with being "fair" that common sense and entertainment have gone out the window. Because of the big legal cases going on in the NH at moment to do with concussed players not being looked after by their clubs and national sides, it's become culturally the most momentally litigious sport imaginable.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks v France I:
If BB was over ruling the coaches he wouldn’t be starting so often. As @reprobate said it seems clear it’s the ABs game plan. If you don’t like the tactics blame Robertson
Don’t completely disagree. But I also wonder if the coaches don’t think BB can play another way, but they still feel he’s the best option. Which would be pretty disappointing too
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Duluth said in All Blacks v France I:
If BB was over ruling the coaches he wouldn’t be starting so often. As @reprobate said it seems clear it’s the ABs game plan. If you don’t like the tactics blame Robertson
Don’t completely disagree. But I also wonder if the coaches don’t think BB can play another way, but they still feel he’s the best option. Which would be pretty disappointing too
If that was the case, it makes the failure to try Plummer even more baffling
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@His-Bobness I'm not sure it's corrupt.
In fact probably the opposite. It's so obsessed with being "fair" that common sense and entertainment have gone out the window. Because of the big legal cases going on in the NH at moment to do with concussed players not being looked after by their clubs and national sides, it's become culturally the most momentally litigious sport imaginable.
@sparky In which case, as Jet says above, we need to take the gloves off and stop being nice guys. Go the
Razzie route and start punching heads at
World Rugby. Sic the advertisers onto the unaccountable Hooray Henrys and bumbling administrators elevated way above their station who are terrified of lawyers and the club owners. That’s what’s going on here. And if they’re not corrupt, they’re incompetent. Take your pick. Neither is good. -
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
There was no contact
You might want to double check who's talking nonsense.
Have checked
It’s not me
But thanks for asking
I checked out of reading the rest as you started with a blatant lie. Are you really saying Tosi didn't make contact? It makes anything else you try to say, redundant.
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
There was no contact
You might want to double check who's talking nonsense.
Have checked
It’s not me
But thanks for asking
I checked out of reading the rest as you started with a blatant lie. Are you really saying Tosi didn't make contact? It makes anything else you try to say, redundant.
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
There was no contact
You might want to double check who's talking nonsense.
Have checked
It’s not me
But thanks for asking
I checked out of reading the rest as you started with a blatant lie. Are you really saying Tosi didn't make contact? It makes anything else you try to say, redundant.
I said innocuous originally. No material contact. Nothing that impeded him sufficiently to change the play. As Antipodean said, it didn’t even change their coverage
But I’ve been on this forum long enough to know the futility of arguing with you so I’ll leave it at that
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@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
There was no contact
You might want to double check who's talking nonsense.
Have checked
It’s not me
But thanks for asking
I checked out of reading the rest as you started with a blatant lie. Are you really saying Tosi didn't make contact? It makes anything else you try to say, redundant.
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
There was no contact
You might want to double check who's talking nonsense.
Have checked
It’s not me
But thanks for asking
I checked out of reading the rest as you started with a blatant lie. Are you really saying Tosi didn't make contact? It makes anything else you try to say, redundant.
I said innocuous originally. No material contact. Nothing that impeded him sufficiently to change the play. As Antipodean said, it didn’t even change their coverage
But I’ve been on this forum long enough to know the futility of arguing with you so I’ll leave it at that
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
There was no contact
You might want to double check who's talking nonsense.
Have checked
It’s not me
But thanks for asking
I checked out of reading the rest as you started with a blatant lie. Are you really saying Tosi didn't make contact? It makes anything else you try to say, redundant.
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
There was no contact
You might want to double check who's talking nonsense.
Have checked
It’s not me
But thanks for asking
I checked out of reading the rest as you started with a blatant lie. Are you really saying Tosi didn't make contact? It makes anything else you try to say, redundant.
I said innocuous originally. No material contact. Nothing that impeded him sufficiently to change the play. As Antipodean said, it didn’t even change their coverage
But I’ve been on this forum long enough to know the futility of arguing with you so I’ll leave it at that
Well that's one way to concede, glad we agree there was contact.
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Shithouse, same old story. Giving up 27 points to France B at home and still can't score in the second half even with all the fucking ball.
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
Shithouse, same old story. Giving up 27 points to France B at home and still can't score in the second half even with all the fucking ball.
Burn that stadium I say..
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@sparky In which case, as Jet says above, we need to take the gloves off and stop being nice guys. Go the
Razzie route and start punching heads at
World Rugby. Sic the advertisers onto the unaccountable Hooray Henrys and bumbling administrators elevated way above their station who are terrified of lawyers and the club owners. That’s what’s going on here. And if they’re not corrupt, they’re incompetent. Take your pick. Neither is good.@His-Bobness We've been way too nice since 2016. And niceness is about the worst word you can use of someone in Rugby. I can't imagine anyone describing Fred Allen, Colin Meads or Sean Fitzpatrick as nice. More of their attitude and less of the Disney bollocks would be great.
Scott Robertson (or David Kirk) needs to come out with an angry video in a few days time about why disallowing the Billy Proctor try and the third Will Jordan try is unacceptable. Razzie would. Andy Farrell would. The French certainly would.
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@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
There was no contact
You might want to double check who's talking nonsense.
Have checked
It’s not me
But thanks for asking
I checked out of reading the rest as you started with a blatant lie. Are you really saying Tosi didn't make contact? It makes anything else you try to say, redundant.
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
There was no contact
You might want to double check who's talking nonsense.
Have checked
It’s not me
But thanks for asking
I checked out of reading the rest as you started with a blatant lie. Are you really saying Tosi didn't make contact? It makes anything else you try to say, redundant.
I said innocuous originally. No material contact. Nothing that impeded him sufficiently to change the play. As Antipodean said, it didn’t even change their coverage
But I’ve been on this forum long enough to know the futility of arguing with you so I’ll leave it at that
Well that's one way to concede, glad we agree there was contact.
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
There was no contact
You might want to double check who's talking nonsense.
Have checked
It’s not me
But thanks for asking
I checked out of reading the rest as you started with a blatant lie. Are you really saying Tosi didn't make contact? It makes anything else you try to say, redundant.
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
There was no contact
You might want to double check who's talking nonsense.
Have checked
It’s not me
But thanks for asking
I checked out of reading the rest as you started with a blatant lie. Are you really saying Tosi didn't make contact? It makes anything else you try to say, redundant.
I said innocuous originally. No material contact. Nothing that impeded him sufficiently to change the play. As Antipodean said, it didn’t even change their coverage
But I’ve been on this forum long enough to know the futility of arguing with you so I’ll leave it at that
Well that's one way to concede, glad we agree there was contact.
That's a sad way to tacitly admit your claim it changed the defence from being able to cover off Beauden's pass is as bullshit as the TMO's adjudication.
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@sparky Which is my point. Foster says in his book that the head of the referees panel at World Rugby told Jaco Peyper that four yellow cards should have been awarded against the ABs during the first test against Ireland at Eden Park in 2022 which they won 42-10.
*“I couldn’t believe World Rugby held that view of the game, and my antennae went up. It was surely a bad sign that the next Test’s match officials were being told by their boss that the All Blacks had got away with murder the week before. And, wouldn’t you know it, after 30 minutes of the Test in Dunedin, we had been shown two yellow cards and a red. It was the red card to prop Angus Ta’avao that threw the game into chaos, and highlighted rugby’s struggle to build a framework of laws that works for the modern game.”
Then, of course in the World Cup final the ABs were undone by a dubious red card decision and then a disallowed try when the TMO went back too many phases, according to the law, to judge a knock-on.
“The final was marred, as an occasion, by the inflexibility and the inadequacies of the current legislative framework around head collisions, and that was compounded by the difficulty officials have in applying the law consistently,” Foster writes. “As a sport, we have to be brave enough to admit we don’t have this area right yet. It is too often negatively impacting big games and putting people off watching rugby.”
I don’t think there is any question that officials, under the influence of senior decision-makers (who are in turn being pressured by the weight of money in northern hemisphere rugby) are policing the All Blacks differently. If happens far too frequently to be coincidental. And when you have an unassuming man like Foster, who to his credit still applauded South Africa, saying something in the administration of the sport is fundamentally broken, I think you need to sit up and pay attention.
There is no way, for instance, that three disallowed tries courtesy of TMO decisions would stand in the NRL without some official being hung from the nearest yard arm.
Rugby Union is corrupt. It still plays at being the gentleman’s game, but the money is talking.
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks v France I:
@sparky Which is my point. Foster says in his book that the head of the referees panel at World Rugby told Jaco Peyper that four yellow cards should have been awarded against the ABs during the first test against Ireland at Eden Park in 2022 which they won 42-10.
*“I couldn’t believe World Rugby held that view of the game, and my antennae went up. It was surely a bad sign that the next Test’s match officials were being told by their boss that the All Blacks had got away with murder the week before. And, wouldn’t you know it, after 30 minutes of the Test in Dunedin, we had been shown two yellow cards and a red. It was the red card to prop Angus Ta’avao that threw the game into chaos, and highlighted rugby’s struggle to build a framework of laws that works for the modern game.”
Then, of course in the World Cup final the ABs were undone by a dubious red card decision and then a disallowed try when the TMO went back too many phases, according to the law, to judge a knock-on.
“The final was marred, as an occasion, by the inflexibility and the inadequacies of the current legislative framework around head collisions, and that was compounded by the difficulty officials have in applying the law consistently,” Foster writes. “As a sport, we have to be brave enough to admit we don’t have this area right yet. It is too often negatively impacting big games and putting people off watching rugby.”
I don’t think there is any question that officials, under the influence of senior decision-makers (who are in turn being pressured by the weight of money in northern hemisphere rugby) are policing the All Blacks differently. If happens far too frequently to be coincidental. And when you have an unassuming man like Foster, who to his credit still applauded South Africa, saying something in the administration of the sport is fundamentally broken, I think you need to sit up and pay attention.
There is no way, for instance, that three disallowed tries courtesy of TMO decisions would stand in the NRL without some official being hung from the nearest yard arm.
Rugby Union is corrupt. It still plays at being the gentleman’s game, but the money is talking.
I think I agree with a lot of this post, but I don't think tonight was an example. It's just Murphy being his usual pedant self.
And in all honesty the decisions tonight didn't upset as much as they have a bunch of the Fern, Tosi was ahead of the ball and took out a defender and Proctor and Jordan lost the ball. If the French had got one in similar fashion then I would have hit the roof.
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I thought in the final quarter there was some good stuff in attack with a number of the Chiefs guys combining.
Just lacked a bit of finishing class. So work in progress and all that.
