All Blacks v France I
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We have a problem at 13, and we have a question at 6 (does Tuopu V stay there? Worked hard, did well, worked hard, great in lineout (like Holland), but looked a bit like a lock trying to work out how to play and where as a 6) and we have a speed problem on both wings (if Jordan stays at 15). I'm not sure that Rieko should stay in the squad.
But we really have a problem at 10 when you compare field kicking and management to France. BB kicked his penalties and conversions very well but he just doesn't draw his man or make snappy passes like DMac. I feel we still don't know who our 10 should be.
nB at 51:20 Jordan was wrapped in the air by Gabin Villière-yellow card, ref! (Me, biased?) -
I'm watching delayed.
I'm at the 30 minute mark. We played excellent excellent attack. Proctor chucks a shocker. We lose a turnover, field a kick in our own end, try running it out, then kick a cross field kick to touch just outside our 22.
We've looked so good, but we compound errors with trying something shit to remedy the error. Shit pass? Throw a 2nd risky pass to try and get out of it. Just be pragmatic FFS.
Contrast Fikou picking up a shit pass and then just trucking it back to his forwards for a reset.
It's the whole team as well, our first score was struck off because we tried yo turn a shit pass into a miracle
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France I:
I'm at the 30 minute mark. We played excellent excellent attack. Proctor chucks a shocker. We lose a turnover, field a kick in our own end, try running it out, then kick a cross field kick to touch just outside our 22.
I thought Jordan played very well throughout this game but at that point, when he was alone in possession inside his own 22, he just needed to kick and find touch around the halfway line and allow the team to reset.
They're improving in their decision-making but they're still susceptible to some silly errors. It's like the famous Shakespeare line: "My kingdom for some relatively intelligent backs."
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@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
There was no contact
You might want to double check who's talking nonsense.
Have checked
It’s not me
But thanks for asking
I checked out of reading the rest as you started with a blatant lie. Are you really saying Tosi didn't make contact? It makes anything else you try to say, redundant.
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
There was no contact
You might want to double check who's talking nonsense.
Have checked
It’s not me
But thanks for asking
I checked out of reading the rest as you started with a blatant lie. Are you really saying Tosi didn't make contact? It makes anything else you try to say, redundant.
I said innocuous originally. No material contact. Nothing that impeded him sufficiently to change the play. As Antipodean said, it didn’t even change their coverage
But I’ve been on this forum long enough to know the futility of arguing with you so I’ll leave it at that
Well that's one way to concede, glad we agree there was contact.
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
There was no contact
You might want to double check who's talking nonsense.
Have checked
It’s not me
But thanks for asking
I checked out of reading the rest as you started with a blatant lie. Are you really saying Tosi didn't make contact? It makes anything else you try to say, redundant.
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
There was no contact
You might want to double check who's talking nonsense.
Have checked
It’s not me
But thanks for asking
I checked out of reading the rest as you started with a blatant lie. Are you really saying Tosi didn't make contact? It makes anything else you try to say, redundant.
I said innocuous originally. No material contact. Nothing that impeded him sufficiently to change the play. As Antipodean said, it didn’t even change their coverage
But I’ve been on this forum long enough to know the futility of arguing with you so I’ll leave it at that
Well that's one way to concede, glad we agree there was contact.
Yes, there was contact but rugby referees apply the materiality* principle in so many other aspects of the game, why couldn't they apply it here? Why do the TMOs never apply the materiality* principle?
*For those who are hard of thinking, the materiality principle holds that only those infringements that have a material impact on the game should be penalised - see each and every ruck for how this principle is and generally should be applied.
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There will be nashing of teeth and blaming of players (on here), but unless the ABs get into a test match mindset, they will struggle tactically. Focus on basics, protect the ball, kick long for territory, put it in front of your forward pack, and play percentages. The strikes will come from that.
There must be a mathematical formula for building pressure that equates to winning percentages. At the moment, we seem to be wayward artists, but I think we need engineers (Do you know what I mean?)@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v France I:
There will be nashing of teeth and blaming of players (on here), but unless the ABs get into a test match mindset, they will struggle tactically. Focus on basics, protect the ball, kick long for territory, put it in front of your forward pack, and play percentages. The strikes will come from that.
There must be a mathematical formula for building pressure that equates to winning percentages. At the moment, we seem to be wayward artists, but I think we need engineers (Do you know what I mean?)Dan Carter could be plenty boring at the best of times.
We could just chip away. 3 points ahead, 6 points ahead, 11 points ahead..........next thing you know we have walloped the opposition.
The current iteration of the Allblacks goes life and death with EVERYONE.
Drawing with England in 2022, A George Ford missed droppie away from losing to England last year.
Beating England by 1 point in Razors first game.
Bledisloe 1 last year 31-28 victory. Losing 38-30 to Argentina.
There is a body of work building that we are complacent, wild and unclinical.
The gap has closed between tier 1 nations granted, but we only have ourselves to blame for most of it.
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Just my two cents on the First Test.
A continuation of many of the problems from last year – lack of focus at times, shit kicking, too much helter-skelter ant not enough patience. But many positives - things seem to be getting better with Scooter taking control when things weren’t going well and leading the way with a charge-down. Ditto, the forwards near the line showed a lot more control and fewer errors than we saw last year. Kicking may have been shit, but the exits did seem better.
Really pleased that Robertson took the plunge and tried new things, though not sure all of them paid off…. Fabien Holland was rock solid and a good selection as was Christian Lio-Willie. I wasn’t convinced by the 6/7/8 combination and thought Ardie a bit anonymous at 7 until Kirifi came on and he was MoM material in the last 20-30 minutes. Maybe I’m being unfair, but I thought Vaa’I had a off day and wasn’t his normal work-horse self. Convinced he’s a top-class lock who can fill in at 6 if needed and a stopgap there at best.
Roigard was rocks and diamonds. His passing & kicking looked laboured at time, but boy, he really does know when to make a break. Be interesting to see if he’s better coming off the bench against tired defences. That said, his close quarter passing game was pretty good. Have to say we are looking better at 9 than anyone would have thought 12 months ago.
Where to start with Beauden Barrett? Some great pop-passes and his goal-kicking was immaculate, but he’s become predicable/robotic and seems a gnat’s todger away from flakiness at times. He’s not the answer at 10 but who else is? Does DMac fit with Robertson game plan?
Arguably Jordie’s best game in Black. A couple of outstanding pieces of skill but what was impressive was how he anchored the midfield and did the basics so bloody well for 80 minutes. Combination with DMac was impressive. Worthy VC. Proctor had a ‘mare and that can’t be put down to debut nerves. Worth sticking with definitely, but be surprised if he starts next week,
Reiko really didn’t have much to do but didn’t do much wrong and not sure we found out if he’s a better wing than 13. Maybe back at 13 next week with Caleb Clarke in for Reece. Jordan was Jordan - never seen a player with the knack of being in the right place at the right time as he has and you can argue he’s won us a shed-load of games. Outstanding.
All in, pretty pleased with that result. Great game to watch and some good periods of play with a new-ish team some of whom did bloody well. Robertson and the players will take a lot away from that, particularly as it was tight game and not a blow-out.
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Firstly, pretty fun game of football. Both teams came yo play open footy when ever possible, and we got a lot of ball movement because of it.
Good mature win in the end. Take the points, recognise your dominance, grind it out.
Cheers to the French, a lot of those kids can fucking play.
For us, my main takeaway is, guess what, fotm means something. The guys who did good did good in super too. Those who battled? Guess what.
Same main weaknesses. Can't kick, can't hurt their ruck. Lose the air.
Some of our shape was gorgeous
I loved when we played direct
Set piece good.So many positives for week one.
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Super Rugby is no longer the premier competition without the Saffas it's becoming harder and harder for the ABs to build enough depth to field a dominant test side when they're only playing against themselves and the Aussies, the deck is stacked against it.
All of the top 14 basically has 2 teams, the likes of Toulouse and Bordeaux go away from home in a top 14 game and make 16-17-18 changes to the 23, they have about 70 players who can play at test level.
@Piranha said in All Blacks v France I:
Super Rugby is no longer the premier competition without the Saffas it's becoming harder and harder for the ABs to build enough depth to field a dominant test side when they're only playing against themselves and the Aussies, the deck is stacked against it.
All of the top 14 basically has 2 teams, the likes of Toulouse and Bordeaux go away from home in a top 14 game and make 16-17-18 changes to the 23, they have about 70 players who can play at test level.
This is such a bad take - the Jaapies contributed bugger all to Super Rugby after 1996. What has fucked Super Rugby is the Aussies becoming completely dogshit, and all their best athletes going off to play league and AFL.
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I'm watching delayed.
I'm at the 30 minute mark. We played excellent excellent attack. Proctor chucks a shocker. We lose a turnover, field a kick in our own end, try running it out, then kick a cross field kick to touch just outside our 22.
We've looked so good, but we compound errors with trying something shit to remedy the error. Shit pass? Throw a 2nd risky pass to try and get out of it. Just be pragmatic FFS.
Contrast Fikou picking up a shit pass and then just trucking it back to his forwards for a reset.
It's the whole team as well, our first score was struck off because we tried yo turn a shit pass into a miracle
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France I:
I'm watching delayed.
I'm at the 30 minute mark. We played excellent excellent attack. Proctor chucks a shocker. We lose a turnover, field a kick in our own end, try running it out, then kick a cross field kick to touch just outside our 22.
We've looked so good, but we compound errors with trying something shit to remedy the error. Shit pass? Throw a 2nd risky pass to try and get out of it. Just be pragmatic FFS.
Contrast Fikou picking up a shit pass and then just trucking it back to his forwards for a reset.
It's the whole team as well, our first score was struck off because we tried yo turn a shit pass into a miracle
This is like my golf game: Hit a bad shot? Why not try the miracle shot to make up for it?
Result: End up in an even worse situation and the best I can do is a triple bogie and a lost ball.
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Negatives?
Our spine are dumb and why we struggle. 9, 10, 15. No control at all, no feel for tempo. Flat out, always. Playing for them must be exhausting.
Proctor was average at 13, but he'll he saved by the fact his most likely replacement was worst on ground. Ioane is cooked, get rid.
What the fuck do you fo either Ardie Savea? With ball in hand few are better. But in a test team? He's do selfish. He will actively avoid attacking rucks, so he can get the next run. At 7 he made no dent in the French breakdown.
I think it's a worry that the main problems I see are guys you know will get selected every week
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Terrible technique.
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On the TMO all were 100% correct and I can't believe there is any disagreement.
The most grey was the obstruction but mainly because of the the wording. BB takes the ball inside the dummy runner and goes behind him. Obstruction all day.
Proctor lost the ball cold. And so did Newell.
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Just watched it. Not perfect but refreshing to see new players adding value.
Barrett Holland Vaai combo worked.
Stick with the midfield has promise.
A few nerves from Proctor but you can see his distribution skills.
Roigard good distribution.
Vaai and BB very good (apart from cross kick)
France great effort.
I was tense to the 75th minute -
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
There was no contact
You might want to double check who's talking nonsense.
Have checked
It’s not me
But thanks for asking
I checked out of reading the rest as you started with a blatant lie. Are you really saying Tosi didn't make contact? It makes anything else you try to say, redundant.
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
There was no contact
You might want to double check who's talking nonsense.
Have checked
It’s not me
But thanks for asking
I checked out of reading the rest as you started with a blatant lie. Are you really saying Tosi didn't make contact? It makes anything else you try to say, redundant.
I said innocuous originally. No material contact. Nothing that impeded him sufficiently to change the play. As Antipodean said, it didn’t even change their coverage
But I’ve been on this forum long enough to know the futility of arguing with you so I’ll leave it at that
Well that's one way to concede, glad we agree there was contact.
Yes, there was contact but rugby referees apply the materiality* principle in so many other aspects of the game, why couldn't they apply it here? Why do the TMOs never apply the materiality* principle?
*For those who are hard of thinking, the materiality principle holds that only those infringements that have a material impact on the game should be penalised - see each and every ruck for how this principle is and generally should be applied.
@junior said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
There was no contact
You might want to double check who's talking nonsense.
Have checked
It’s not me
But thanks for asking
I checked out of reading the rest as you started with a blatant lie. Are you really saying Tosi didn't make contact? It makes anything else you try to say, redundant.
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
There was no contact
You might want to double check who's talking nonsense.
Have checked
It’s not me
But thanks for asking
I checked out of reading the rest as you started with a blatant lie. Are you really saying Tosi didn't make contact? It makes anything else you try to say, redundant.
I said innocuous originally. No material contact. Nothing that impeded him sufficiently to change the play. As Antipodean said, it didn’t even change their coverage
But I’ve been on this forum long enough to know the futility of arguing with you so I’ll leave it at that
Well that's one way to concede, glad we agree there was contact.
Yes, there was contact but rugby referees apply the materiality* principle in so many other aspects of the game, why couldn't they apply it here? Why do the TMOs never apply the materiality* principle?
*For those who are hard of thinking, the materiality principle holds that only those infringements that have a material impact on the game should be penalised - see each and every ruck for how this principle is and generally should be applied.
I've seen BB shit the bed enough times to know that even the threat of being marked could result in a markedly different outcome. Materially.
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Firstly, pretty fun game of football. Both teams came yo play open footy when ever possible, and we got a lot of ball movement because of it.
Good mature win in the end. Take the points, recognise your dominance, grind it out.
Cheers to the French, a lot of those kids can fucking play.
For us, my main takeaway is, guess what, fotm means something. The guys who did good did good in super too. Those who battled? Guess what.
Same main weaknesses. Can't kick, can't hurt their ruck. Lose the air.
Some of our shape was gorgeous
I loved when we played direct
Set piece good.So many positives for week one.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France I:
Firstly, pretty fun game of football. Both teams came yo play open footy when ever possible, and we got a lot of ball movement because of it.
Good mature win in the end. Take the points, recognise your dominance, grind it out.
Cheers to the French, a lot of those kids can fucking play.
For us, my main takeaway is, guess what, fotm means something. The guys who did good did good in super too. Those who battled? Guess what.
Same main weaknesses. Can't kick, can't hurt their ruck. Lose the air.
Some of our shape was gorgeous
I loved when we played direct
Set piece good.So many positives for week one.
The tram line ruck and box kick is now part of the set piece and basics of the game at test level. We need to train and select accordingly.
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Negatives?
Our spine are dumb and why we struggle. 9, 10, 15. No control at all, no feel for tempo. Flat out, always. Playing for them must be exhausting.
Proctor was average at 13, but he'll he saved by the fact his most likely replacement was worst on ground. Ioane is cooked, get rid.
What the fuck do you fo either Ardie Savea? With ball in hand few are better. But in a test team? He's do selfish. He will actively avoid attacking rucks, so he can get the next run. At 7 he made no dent in the French breakdown.
I think it's a worry that the main problems I see are guys you know will get selected every week
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France I:
Negatives?
Our spine are dumb and why we struggle. 9, 10, 15. No control at all, no feel for tempo. Flat out, always. Playing for them must be exhausting.
Proctor was average at 13, but he'll he saved by the fact his most likely replacement was worst on ground. Ioane is cooked, get rid.
What the fuck do you fo either Ardie Savea? With ball in hand few are better. But in a test team? He's do selfish. He will actively avoid attacking rucks, so he can get the next run. At 7 he made no dent in the French breakdown.
I think it's a worry that the main problems I see are guys you know will get selected every week
BB and DM are two of the most articulate guys in the team but that lead us to being fooled into thinking they are clever the same way we all think a bloke with a posh English accent is a MENSA-level genius despite being a complete retard.
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Plaudits to French XV.
Some uncommented on elements.
EDG very good at basics.
Vaa’i/Holland/Finau markedly more dynamic than the staring combo with Scooter.
Starting loosies didn’t gel. RD doesn’t give you much cleaning and only occasional jackalling, so the trio requires someone who does. Finishing 3 better but I’d say Paps/Finau/RD would have been much more balanced.
Back three much more dangerous with DMac at 15 and WillJ at 14.
The French close in defence had so much more ‘stopping power’ than ours. AND seemed to be well below head height. -
Negatives?
Our spine are dumb and why we struggle. 9, 10, 15. No control at all, no feel for tempo. Flat out, always. Playing for them must be exhausting.
Proctor was average at 13, but he'll he saved by the fact his most likely replacement was worst on ground. Ioane is cooked, get rid.
What the fuck do you fo either Ardie Savea? With ball in hand few are better. But in a test team? He's do selfish. He will actively avoid attacking rucks, so he can get the next run. At 7 he made no dent in the French breakdown.
I think it's a worry that the main problems I see are guys you know will get selected every week
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France I:
What the fuck do you fo either Ardie Savea? With ball in hand few are better. But in a test team? He's do selfish. He will actively avoid attacking rucks, so he can get the next run.
He is fuxking garage at 7. Absolutely worthless. Even his moronic Canes fans will not pump that performance. This has been very well established since 2019, yet here we are again, because New Zealand is run by the dumbest guys you knew at university.
What does he do well as a 7? Nothing.
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Canes fans that are so below normal IQ that they will turn up and say that Proctor was pretty good. When his defence was a continuation of every shit performance in every super rugby play off game.
The Brumbies destroyed him and Krifi, another joke selection. The Lions will beat Australia by 20 points in every game.
But here we are with a coach who cannot read, and so many shit loose forwards.
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Negatives?
Our spine are dumb and why we struggle. 9, 10, 15. No control at all, no feel for tempo. Flat out, always. Playing for them must be exhausting.
Proctor was average at 13, but he'll he saved by the fact his most likely replacement was worst on ground. Ioane is cooked, get rid.
What the fuck do you fo either Ardie Savea? With ball in hand few are better. But in a test team? He's do selfish. He will actively avoid attacking rucks, so he can get the next run. At 7 he made no dent in the French breakdown.
I think it's a worry that the main problems I see are guys you know will get selected every week
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France I:
Negatives?
Our spine are dumb and why we struggle. 9, 10, 15. No control at all, no feel for tempo. Flat out, always. Playing for them must be exhausting.
Proctor was average at 13, but he'll he saved by the fact his most likely replacement was worst on ground. Ioane is cooked, get rid.
What the fuck do you fo either Ardie Savea? With ball in hand few are better. But in a test team? He's do selfish. He will actively avoid attacking rucks, so he can get the next run. At 7 he made no dent in the French breakdown.
I think it's a worry that the main problems I see are guys you know will get selected every week
We have a Savea problem and a Barrett problem.
They upset the apple cart but their highlight reel is seductive.
