All Blacks v France I
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v France I:
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks v France I:
@sparky In which case, as Jet says above, we need to take the gloves off and stop being nice guys. Go the
Razzie route and start punching heads at
World Rugby. Sic the advertisers onto the unaccountable Hooray Henrys and bumbling administrators elevated way above their station who are terrified of lawyers and the club owners. That’s what’s going on here. And if they’re not corrupt, they’re incompetent. Take your pick. Neither is good.We could take the gloves off and be nice guys. Let the others bleat and moan, we should be strong enough to raise controversial, contentious issues and argue them in a convincing way without being dickheads.
PS. Tks for the heads-up on Foster's book.
I think it has to be done publicly (concurrently with official channels) so they have nowhere to hide.
Smart use of press conferences etc.
For example, in the Irish series.
"We had a player sent off last week for accidental head on head contact (Taavao), we get that player safety is paramount and they want to encourage players to tackle lower so its fine by us".
"However Brodie Retallick now has a broken eye socket from a shoulder to the head from a tackler who was upright and he received a lesser sanction".
"this is inconsistent with world rugbys desire to reduce concussions"
"the differing outcomes affected both games"
"the ref used the terminology of soak tackle as mitigation which is not in the laws or tacking framework"
"we will be speaking to world rugby about why both transgressions were reffed differently".
Now it wouldnt get us a changed result in the game just played, we still lost, but maybe Kolisi gets red one year hence in the RWC final (Both games reffed by Barnes).
If you have cried hypocrisy and double standards to the media, and Cane walks for his tackle on Kriel, its fresh in everyones mind once the big screen is showing Kolisi drawing blood from Ardies nose.
The behind closed doors stuff has achieved nothing.
The squeaky hinge gets the grease.
@Jet said in All Blacks v France I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v France I:
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks v France I:
@sparky In which case, as Jet says above, we need to take the gloves off and stop being nice guys. Go the
Razzie route and start punching heads at
World Rugby. Sic the advertisers onto the unaccountable Hooray Henrys and bumbling administrators elevated way above their station who are terrified of lawyers and the club owners. That’s what’s going on here. And if they’re not corrupt, they’re incompetent. Take your pick. Neither is good.We could take the gloves off and be nice guys. Let the others bleat and moan, we should be strong enough to raise controversial, contentious issues and argue them in a convincing way without being dickheads.
PS. Tks for the heads-up on Foster's book.
I think it has to be done publicly (concurrently with official channels) so they have nowhere to hide.
Smart use of press conferences etc.
For example, in the Irish series.
"We had a player sent off last week for accidental head on head contact (Taavao), we get that player safety is paramount and they want to encourage players to tackle lower so its fine by us".
"However Brodie Retallick now has a broken eye socket from a shoulder to the head from a tackler who was upright and he received a lesser sanction".
"this is inconsistent with world rugbys desire to reduce concussions"
"the differing outcomes affected both games"
"the ref used the terminology of soak tackle as mitigation which is not in the laws or tacking framework"
"we will be speaking to world rugby about why both transgressions were reffed differently".
Now it wouldnt get us a changed result in the game just played, we still lost, but maybe Kolisi gets red one year hence in the RWC final (Both games reffed by Barnes).
If you have cried hypocrisy and double standards to the media, and Cane walks for his tackle on Kriel, its fresh in everyones mind once the big screen is showing Kolisi drawing blood from Ardies nose.
The behind closed doors stuff has achieved nothing.
The squeaky hinge gets the grease.
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Given their new Lock partnership looks likely to stay the All Blacks should be looking to get a sponsorship from this well-known chain of British health stores: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland_%26_Barrett
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Did I ever mention Jordie should be playing at 12?
The usual scatterbrained shit unfortunately with some Swiss cheese defence. Hopefully that's just the usual first game turd burger otherwise this season will be a carbon copy of the last.
The Dutchman was good
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Ardie Savea’s 50 minutes at openside
The international game, both past and present, has seen a plethora of player-types occupying the 7-jersey in Test rugby. When asked in 2008 by World Rugby what exactly constituted an openside flanker, Josh Kronfeld gave a typically blunt answer: “You’ve got to have good handling skills, good vision, be a bit of mongrel. You want to be able to be doing stuff, grovelling on the ground as well as doing the airy fairy stuff upright with the ball in hand so you have to be pretty well rounded in terms of your rugby skills.”Within this broad range of skills, each seven will look for their own identity, whether it be through jackalling (Pocock), disrupting the breakdown (McCaw), being a defensive stopper (Dusautoir, Cane) or being a link-man on attack between forwards and backs (Michael Jones). Looking at Ardie Savea’s game, it is clear that he mostly belongs to this latter tradition of the offensive openside, who excels through his vision and support in attack.
This support play was quickly apparent against the French and was a feature throughout the game. In the 15th minute, from a scrum around the halfway line, the ABs break the line through a tidy set-piece move from midfield. After a quick recycle and with McKenzie at first receiver, Savea has positioned himself on the former’s inside shoulder, in perfect position for an inside pass and a potential linebreak. McKenzie chooses to go outside, though, the pass eventually being intercepted by an alert Attissogbe.
But what about some of these other core facets of openside play, the mongrel and the grovelling on the ground? Here, I think it’s fair to say that Savea was selective yet impactful. The breakdown, during Savea’s stint at openside, was relatively safe and quick, with 62% of the ruck speed between between 0-3 seconds. Only two ruck turnovers were conceded, both to diminutive winger, Gabin Villière. One, in the 6th minute, when Holland and Barrett couldn’t shift him and once more in the 45th minute, again beating Scott Barrett to the ball after a Roigard linebreak.
Was Savea at fault for these turnovers? Yes and no. Again, Savea was selective rather than omnipresent at the breakdown but he was effective when and where he cleaned. Here, in the 38th minute with the ABs on attack in the French 22, Savea puts in a strong shoulder, cleaning out a well-positioned Guillard, and preventing a certain turnover.
At other points, he was able to effectively slow down the French ball, by wrapping up the opposition ball carrier and disrupting the momentum of the French attack.
https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExdjZxZzM1cjJiNXdtdHh5eHhxamVobmhoMHliZnliZ2p1dm1sN2txMyZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/zJrYaIqKdWhmfgImmt/giphy.gif
Savea worked well together with Lio-Willie during the first half, often combining in defence and attack as dual menaces around the ruck areaSo why was he partially at fault for the Villière turnovers? While Savea certainly tried to fulfil his openside responsibilities to Test standard, during the opening stanza of the second half especially, he lost control of the balance between these responsibilities and his own specialty, the carrying game.
After another gruelling series of carries through the middle early in the second half, it quickly becomes apparent that Savea has overexerted himself. So when Cam Roigard wants to put pace in the attack by going for the quick tap, Savea no longer has the energy to follow him.
Savea, seen here farthest on the right, can’t keep up with the AB attackThe final 5 minutes of Savea’s stint at openside also equal his weakest. After being unable to keep up with Roigard, he compounds his fatigue-induced, erratic play by, first, being unable to close the defensive gap for the van Tonder linebreak, and then second, when defending the try-line in the subsequent phase, Savea allows Woki to go underneath him for the score.
Herein also lies the biggest ‘learning’ (apologies, I couldn’t resist!) for the flanker/number 8-hybrid. Savea hasn’t played openside at Test level for a number of years. Looking at this game, I think it’s reasonable to suggest that he has both the tools and the brain to ultimately be effective in the position. But what he will need to do, however, is make sure he finds the proper balance between his carrying game and his openside responsibilities, being careful not to blow his engine when racking up the carries into a crowded defence.
Having more carriers on the field - like Williams, Sititi and Taukei'aho - should at least help with this, so Savea isn't tempted to take up too much of the carrying load on his own shoulders. Then again, Savea needs to be smarter as well, and self-regulate his energy levels.
Tldr; Savea can be a 7 at Test level, in my view, as he has the tools and brain for the position but will need to be careful not to overexert himself with his carrying game, neglecting his openside duties.
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Firstly, pretty fun game of football. Both teams came yo play open footy when ever possible, and we got a lot of ball movement because of it.
Good mature win in the end. Take the points, recognise your dominance, grind it out.
Cheers to the French, a lot of those kids can fucking play.
For us, my main takeaway is, guess what, fotm means something. The guys who did good did good in super too. Those who battled? Guess what.
Same main weaknesses. Can't kick, can't hurt their ruck. Lose the air.
Some of our shape was gorgeous
I loved when we played direct
Set piece good.So many positives for week one.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France I:
Firstly, pretty fun game of football. Both teams came yo play open footy when ever possible, and we got a lot of ball movement because of it.
Good mature win in the end. Take the points, recognise your dominance, grind it out.
Cheers to the French, a lot of those kids can fucking play.
For us, my main takeaway is, guess what, fotm means something. The guys who did good did good in super too. Those who battled? Guess what.
Same main weaknesses. Can't kick, can't hurt their ruck. Lose the air.
Some of our shape was gorgeous
I loved when we played direct
Set piece good.So many positives for week one.
What is this positive sorcery?
Did you miss the memo that it’s all doom and gloom. -
Plaudits to French XV.
Some uncommented on elements.
EDG very good at basics.
Vaa’i/Holland/Finau markedly more dynamic than the staring combo with Scooter.
Starting loosies didn’t gel. RD doesn’t give you much cleaning and only occasional jackalling, so the trio requires someone who does. Finishing 3 better but I’d say Paps/Finau/RD would have been much more balanced.
Back three much more dangerous with DMac at 15 and WillJ at 14.
The French close in defence had so much more ‘stopping power’ than ours. AND seemed to be well below head height.@pakman said in All Blacks v France I:
Plaudits to French XV.
Some uncommented on elements.
EDG very good at basics.
Vaa’i/Holland/Finau markedly more dynamic than the staring combo with Scooter.
Starting loosies didn’t gel. RD doesn’t give you much cleaning and only occasional jackalling, so the trio requires someone who does. Finishing 3 better but I’d say Paps/Finau/RD would have been much more balanced.
Back three much more dangerous with DMac at 15 and WillJ at 14.
The French close in defence had so much more ‘stopping power’ than ours. AND seemed to be well below head height.We saw the starting back 3 for all of 90 seconds together. I know we are into snap judgments and all that…..
Ardie is an interesting one because for Moana this season he did attack the breakdown like he did years ago. He was a real nuisance once it hit the deck. On attack the trio looked good I thought. We got a lot of quick ball which in my view meant players were doing well at ruck time.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v France I:
Plaudits to French XV.
Some uncommented on elements.
EDG very good at basics.
Vaa’i/Holland/Finau markedly more dynamic than the staring combo with Scooter.
Starting loosies didn’t gel. RD doesn’t give you much cleaning and only occasional jackalling, so the trio requires someone who does. Finishing 3 better but I’d say Paps/Finau/RD would have been much more balanced.
Back three much more dangerous with DMac at 15 and WillJ at 14.
The French close in defence had so much more ‘stopping power’ than ours. AND seemed to be well below head height.We saw the starting back 3 for all of 90 seconds together. I know we are into snap judgments and all that…..
Ardie is an interesting one because for Moana this season he did attack the breakdown like he did years ago. He was a real nuisance once it hit the deck. On attack the trio looked good I thought. We got a lot of quick ball which in my view meant players were doing well at ruck time.
@ACT-Crusader Wasn’t only a reference to this match.
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On the TMO all were 100% correct and I can't believe there is any disagreement.
The most grey was the obstruction but mainly because of the the wording. BB takes the ball inside the dummy runner and goes behind him. Obstruction all day.
Proctor lost the ball cold. And so did Newell.
@mariner4life It’s not the correct / incorrect that bothers me. It’s the watching the game in hundredths of a seconds inevitably leads to massive inconsistency. Just rewind the tape until you see something you don’t like. Or don’t. Or do. Or don’t.
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Negatives?
Our spine are dumb and why we struggle. 9, 10, 15. No control at all, no feel for tempo. Flat out, always. Playing for them must be exhausting.
Proctor was average at 13, but he'll he saved by the fact his most likely replacement was worst on ground. Ioane is cooked, get rid.
What the fuck do you fo either Ardie Savea? With ball in hand few are better. But in a test team? He's do selfish. He will actively avoid attacking rucks, so he can get the next run. At 7 he made no dent in the French breakdown.
I think it's a worry that the main problems I see are guys you know will get selected every week
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France I:
Negatives?
Our spine are dumb and why we struggle. 9, 10, 15. No control at all, no feel for tempo. Flat out, always. Playing for them must be exhausting.
Proctor was average at 13, but he'll he saved by the fact his most likely replacement was worst on ground. Ioane is cooked, get rid.
What the fuck do you fo either Ardie Savea? With ball in hand few are better. But in a test team? He's do selfish. He will actively avoid attacking rucks, so he can get the next run. At 7 he made no dent in the French breakdown.
I think it's a worry that the main problems I see are guys you know will get selected every week
Ioane does look cooked. Doesn’t pass or look to setup those around him. Was just running straight at defenders.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France I:
Negatives?
Our spine are dumb and why we struggle. 9, 10, 15. No control at all, no feel for tempo. Flat out, always. Playing for them must be exhausting.
Proctor was average at 13, but he'll he saved by the fact his most likely replacement was worst on ground. Ioane is cooked, get rid.
What the fuck do you fo either Ardie Savea? With ball in hand few are better. But in a test team? He's do selfish. He will actively avoid attacking rucks, so he can get the next run. At 7 he made no dent in the French breakdown.
I think it's a worry that the main problems I see are guys you know will get selected every week
Ioane does look cooked. Doesn’t pass or look to setup those around him. Was just running straight at defenders.
@kev said in All Blacks v France I:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France I:
Negatives?
Our spine are dumb and why we struggle. 9, 10, 15. No control at all, no feel for tempo. Flat out, always. Playing for them must be exhausting.
Proctor was average at 13, but he'll he saved by the fact his most likely replacement was worst on ground. Ioane is cooked, get rid.
What the fuck do you fo either Ardie Savea? With ball in hand few are better. But in a test team? He's do selfish. He will actively avoid attacking rucks, so he can get the next run. At 7 he made no dent in the French breakdown.
I think it's a worry that the main problems I see are guys you know will get selected every week
Ioane does look cooked. Doesn’t pass or look to setup those around him. Was just running straight at defenders.
He is at that age unfortunately. How come other countries wingers last longer than ours ?
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@kev said in All Blacks v France I:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France I:
Negatives?
Our spine are dumb and why we struggle. 9, 10, 15. No control at all, no feel for tempo. Flat out, always. Playing for them must be exhausting.
Proctor was average at 13, but he'll he saved by the fact his most likely replacement was worst on ground. Ioane is cooked, get rid.
What the fuck do you fo either Ardie Savea? With ball in hand few are better. But in a test team? He's do selfish. He will actively avoid attacking rucks, so he can get the next run. At 7 he made no dent in the French breakdown.
I think it's a worry that the main problems I see are guys you know will get selected every week
Ioane does look cooked. Doesn’t pass or look to setup those around him. Was just running straight at defenders.
He is at that age unfortunately. How come other countries wingers last longer than ours ?
@MN5 said in All Blacks v France I:
@kev said in All Blacks v France I:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France I:
Negatives?
Our spine are dumb and why we struggle. 9, 10, 15. No control at all, no feel for tempo. Flat out, always. Playing for them must be exhausting.
Proctor was average at 13, but he'll he saved by the fact his most likely replacement was worst on ground. Ioane is cooked, get rid.
What the fuck do you fo either Ardie Savea? With ball in hand few are better. But in a test team? He's do selfish. He will actively avoid attacking rucks, so he can get the next run. At 7 he made no dent in the French breakdown.
I think it's a worry that the main problems I see are guys you know will get selected every week
Ioane does look cooked. Doesn’t pass or look to setup those around him. Was just running straight at defenders.
He is at that age unfortunately. How come other countries wingers last longer than ours ?
I think it’s usually our so called power wingers who might start to drop away athletically and to go with that , there might be younger guys demanding pick me
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@kev said in All Blacks v France I:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France I:
Negatives?
Our spine are dumb and why we struggle. 9, 10, 15. No control at all, no feel for tempo. Flat out, always. Playing for them must be exhausting.
Proctor was average at 13, but he'll he saved by the fact his most likely replacement was worst on ground. Ioane is cooked, get rid.
What the fuck do you fo either Ardie Savea? With ball in hand few are better. But in a test team? He's do selfish. He will actively avoid attacking rucks, so he can get the next run. At 7 he made no dent in the French breakdown.
I think it's a worry that the main problems I see are guys you know will get selected every week
Ioane does look cooked. Doesn’t pass or look to setup those around him. Was just running straight at defenders.
He is at that age unfortunately. How come other countries wingers last longer than ours ?
@MN5 said in All Blacks v France I:
@kev said in All Blacks v France I:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France I:
Negatives?
Our spine are dumb and why we struggle. 9, 10, 15. No control at all, no feel for tempo. Flat out, always. Playing for them must be exhausting.
Proctor was average at 13, but he'll he saved by the fact his most likely replacement was worst on ground. Ioane is cooked, get rid.
What the fuck do you fo either Ardie Savea? With ball in hand few are better. But in a test team? He's do selfish. He will actively avoid attacking rucks, so he can get the next run. At 7 he made no dent in the French breakdown.
I think it's a worry that the main problems I see are guys you know will get selected every week
Ioane does look cooked. Doesn’t pass or look to setup those around him. Was just running straight at defenders.
He is at that age unfortunately. How come other countries wingers last longer than ours ?
Cos they offer other skills - Rieko doesn't kick and doesn't have an aerial game
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@MN5 said in All Blacks v France I:
@kev said in All Blacks v France I:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France I:
Negatives?
Our spine are dumb and why we struggle. 9, 10, 15. No control at all, no feel for tempo. Flat out, always. Playing for them must be exhausting.
Proctor was average at 13, but he'll he saved by the fact his most likely replacement was worst on ground. Ioane is cooked, get rid.
What the fuck do you fo either Ardie Savea? With ball in hand few are better. But in a test team? He's do selfish. He will actively avoid attacking rucks, so he can get the next run. At 7 he made no dent in the French breakdown.
I think it's a worry that the main problems I see are guys you know will get selected every week
Ioane does look cooked. Doesn’t pass or look to setup those around him. Was just running straight at defenders.
He is at that age unfortunately. How come other countries wingers last longer than ours ?
I think it’s usually our so called power wingers who might start to drop away athletically and to go with that , there might be younger guys demanding pick me
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v France I:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v France I:
@kev said in All Blacks v France I:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France I:
Negatives?
Our spine are dumb and why we struggle. 9, 10, 15. No control at all, no feel for tempo. Flat out, always. Playing for them must be exhausting.
Proctor was average at 13, but he'll he saved by the fact his most likely replacement was worst on ground. Ioane is cooked, get rid.
What the fuck do you fo either Ardie Savea? With ball in hand few are better. But in a test team? He's do selfish. He will actively avoid attacking rucks, so he can get the next run. At 7 he made no dent in the French breakdown.
I think it's a worry that the main problems I see are guys you know will get selected every week
Ioane does look cooked. Doesn’t pass or look to setup those around him. Was just running straight at defenders.
He is at that age unfortunately. How come other countries wingers last longer than ours ?
I think it’s usually our so called power wingers who might start to drop away athletically and to go with that , there might be younger guys demanding pick me
We had two of the best in Ben Smith and Corey Jane. Emoni Narawa looks like that type of balanced player.
