All Blacks v France I
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Good post Mauss.
He has the tools but I don't think its in his nature. It's difficult to teach an old dog new tricks and I feel that at 31 that's his instinct.
The carry stats are wrong and where I think we struggled in the game. The highlighted should not be carrying that much considering their roles.
Top Carries
18 Ardie Savea
17 Damian Mckenzie
15 Will Jordan
14 Beauden Barrett
13 Fabian Holland@brodean said in All Blacks v France I:
Good post Mauss.
He has the tools but I don't think its in his nature. It's difficult to teach an old dog new tricks and I feel that at 31 that's his instinct.
The carry stats are wrong and where I think we struggled in the game. The highlighted should not be carrying that much considering their roles.
Top Carries
18 Ardie Savea
17 Damian Mckenzie
15 Will Jordan
14 Beauden Barrett
13 Fabian HollandArdie is selected for his carrying, that's his key strength, and that was part and parcel of being an 8 so it was less of an issue if he was carrying that much.
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On the forwards.
Very nice to see a big man dominant in the middle of our lineout. They know it's going there, but they can't stop it.
Newell seems to do quite a bit of breakdown work.
Taylor very good - I'd still swap him with Samisoni and give the latter 40 minutes flat out for strong carries in traffic, then Taylor the rest of the game - a more accurate thrower and leader to close out tight games.
Vaai was okay at 6, worked hard as always. As someone said where's our PSDT/Wilson - that's not really going to be Vaai. Not sure a lock at 6 matches the desire to play fast and wide.
CLW pretty good - solid, no errors, nothing that says to me that he'll be world XV and the winning of games against the best teams though, and I'd have to question how many stop-gaps we need.
Savea, not bad but not the same standard as his super form?
Overall our set piece was good, and our rucks were generally pretty quick though we did give up several turnovers while hardly getting any ourselves - despite Savea and Kirifi both playing. -
@brodean said in All Blacks v France I:
Good post Mauss.
He has the tools but I don't think its in his nature. It's difficult to teach an old dog new tricks and I feel that at 31 that's his instinct.
The carry stats are wrong and where I think we struggled in the game. The highlighted should not be carrying that much considering their roles.
Top Carries
18 Ardie Savea
17 Damian Mckenzie
15 Will Jordan
14 Beauden Barrett
13 Fabian HollandArdie is selected for his carrying, that's his key strength, and that was part and parcel of being an 8 so it was less of an issue if he was carrying that much.
@Nepia he should stay at 8 then.
At 7 he needs to secure the ball, be there in support, win turnovers, and provide carries as a secondary role.
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I guess the issue with BB and his kicking, is he either is 'allowed' to kick or told he shouldn't...I doubt any coach will do that.
I think he has had free reign for so long, he sees space then poorly executes...
It was notable when we put our kicking boots away, we were all over them and looking like breaking loose, but didn't, then re went back to the kicking duel, which kept putting ourselves under pressure.
Kicking asid, BB went pretty well, so how do you get your hugely experienced 10 to kick less?
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BBs worst kick was the fucking attempted grubber through 3 compressed defenders while we were pouring forward. Idiotic
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I guess the issue with BB and his kicking, is he either is 'allowed' to kick or told he shouldn't...I doubt any coach will do that.
I think he has had free reign for so long, he sees space then poorly executes...
It was notable when we put our kicking boots away, we were all over them and looking like breaking loose, but didn't, then re went back to the kicking duel, which kept putting ourselves under pressure.
Kicking asid, BB went pretty well, so how do you get your hugely experienced 10 to kick less?
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
I guess the issue with BB and his kicking, is he either is 'allowed' to kick or told he shouldn't...I doubt any coach will do that.
I think he has had free reign for so long, he sees space then poorly executes...
It was notable when we put our kicking boots away, we were all over them and looking like breaking loose, but didn't, then re went back to the kicking duel, which kept putting ourselves under pressure.
Kicking asid, BB went pretty well, so how do you get your hugely experienced 10 to kick less?
His passing was really pretty good, best we've seen from him this year, and he kicked his goals well. But fuck me, he kicks so much attacking ball away it does my head in. Each one of those should be treated as a turnover, because that's what they are - if someone knocked the ball on multiple times every game while hot on attack, they would be crucified.
I'm sure there'll be some game where it all comes off and we look amazing and put 50 on some team, but most of the time it means not converting opportunities or applying pressure. that's how you get France C staying close enough to potentially snatch victory - and there are several teams out there better than France C.And he can't exit with distance. And missed touch from a penalty. And a defensive bomb. And we still don't chase and contest - TBH that's the bit that really confuses me - because if it's a plan, sack the chasers. if it's not a plan, sack the kicker.
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I guess the issue with BB and his kicking, is he either is 'allowed' to kick or told he shouldn't...I doubt any coach will do that.
I think he has had free reign for so long, he sees space then poorly executes...
It was notable when we put our kicking boots away, we were all over them and looking like breaking loose, but didn't, then re went back to the kicking duel, which kept putting ourselves under pressure.
Kicking asid, BB went pretty well, so how do you get your hugely experienced 10 to kick less?
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
I guess the issue with BB and his kicking, is he either is 'allowed' to kick or told he shouldn't...I doubt any coach will do that.
I think he has had free reign for so long, he sees space then poorly executes...
It was notable when we put our kicking boots away, we were all over them and looking like breaking loose, but didn't, then re went back to the kicking duel, which kept putting ourselves under pressure.
Kicking asid, BB went pretty well, so how do you get your hugely experienced 10 to kick less?
Not kick less, use better kick options and execute better
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I guess the issue with BB and his kicking, is he either is 'allowed' to kick or told he shouldn't...I doubt any coach will do that.
I think he has had free reign for so long, he sees space then poorly executes...
It was notable when we put our kicking boots away, we were all over them and looking like breaking loose, but didn't, then re went back to the kicking duel, which kept putting ourselves under pressure.
Kicking asid, BB went pretty well, so how do you get your hugely experienced 10 to kick less?
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
I guess the issue with BB and his kicking, is he either is 'allowed' to kick or told he shouldn't...I doubt any coach will do that.
I think he has had free reign for so long, he sees space then poorly executes...
It was notable when we put our kicking boots away, we were all over them and looking like breaking loose, but didn't, then re went back to the kicking duel, which kept putting ourselves under pressure.
Kicking asid, BB went pretty well, so how do you get your hugely experienced 10 to kick less?
TBF it's not just BB. They all tried those stupid farking grubbers. Tupea had been on the field for about 5 seconds when he did one. It seems part of our DNA unfortunately. Can recall yelling at Nonu for doing it 15 odd years ago.
Thought BB was excellent with ball in hand but unfortunately kicking is kind of important for a 10 and he hasn't progressed a cm on that front since 2015. And again TBF it seems every one of our backs has a tendency to kick straight down someone's throat.
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BBs worst kick was the fucking attempted grubber through 3 compressed defenders while we were pouring forward. Idiotic
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France I:
BBs worst kick was the fucking attempted grubber through 3 compressed defenders while we were pouring forward. Idiotic
Agreed - that one and that odd cross chip kick when he was in his 22 in the first half stand out
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
I guess the issue with BB and his kicking, is he either is 'allowed' to kick or told he shouldn't...I doubt any coach will do that.
I think he has had free reign for so long, he sees space then poorly executes...
It was notable when we put our kicking boots away, we were all over them and looking like breaking loose, but didn't, then re went back to the kicking duel, which kept putting ourselves under pressure.
Kicking asid, BB went pretty well, so how do you get your hugely experienced 10 to kick less?
Not kick less, use better kick options and execute better
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan then options is probably easier, but it seems the execution has been an issue for some time now, his kicking just isn't up.to it, then he throws in a cracker.just to give hope....
His great touches last night are offset by his consistently poor tactical and field kicking game. As someone else said, our team kicking game was poor, which is Razor's fault
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan then options is probably easier, but it seems the execution has been an issue for some time now, his kicking just isn't up.to it, then he throws in a cracker.just to give hope....
His great touches last night are offset by his consistently poor tactical and field kicking game. As someone else said, our team kicking game was poor, which is Razor's fault
@canefan when kicks were the right option, he kicked the wrong type or just a shit kick that hes been doing for some time now.
Add in poor chasing, extremely poor aerial skills, we should have put the kicks away in the 2nd half except on exits.
But agreed, he was good elsewhere, we created alot, put ourselves in position only to be undone by our very poor kicking game
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
I guess the issue with BB and his kicking, is he either is 'allowed' to kick or told he shouldn't...I doubt any coach will do that.
I think he has had free reign for so long, he sees space then poorly executes...
It was notable when we put our kicking boots away, we were all over them and looking like breaking loose, but didn't, then re went back to the kicking duel, which kept putting ourselves under pressure.
Kicking asid, BB went pretty well, so how do you get your hugely experienced 10 to kick less?
His passing was really pretty good, best we've seen from him this year, and he kicked his goals well. But fuck me, he kicks so much attacking ball away it does my head in. Each one of those should be treated as a turnover, because that's what they are - if someone knocked the ball on multiple times every game while hot on attack, they would be crucified.
I'm sure there'll be some game where it all comes off and we look amazing and put 50 on some team, but most of the time it means not converting opportunities or applying pressure. that's how you get France C staying close enough to potentially snatch victory - and there are several teams out there better than France C.And he can't exit with distance. And missed touch from a penalty. And a defensive bomb. And we still don't chase and contest - TBH that's the bit that really confuses me - because if it's a plan, sack the chasers. if it's not a plan, sack the kicker.
@reprobate
these low percentage kicks were the biggest blight on the game. At times we need to slow it down and just build pressure through pick n goes and Roigard running a bit more. -
@canefan when kicks were the right option, he kicked the wrong type or just a shit kick that hes been doing for some time now.
Add in poor chasing, extremely poor aerial skills, we should have put the kicks away in the 2nd half except on exits.
But agreed, he was good elsewhere, we created alot, put ourselves in position only to be undone by our very poor kicking game
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan when kicks were the right option, he kicked the wrong type or just a shit kick that hes been doing for some time now.
Add in poor chasing, extremely poor aerial skills, we should have put the kicks away in the 2nd half except on exits.
But agreed, he was good elsewhere, we created alot, put ourselves in position only to be undone by our very poor kicking game
What I can't work out is how much is BB at fault, and how much is Razor's team strategy
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan when kicks were the right option, he kicked the wrong type or just a shit kick that hes been doing for some time now.
Add in poor chasing, extremely poor aerial skills, we should have put the kicks away in the 2nd half except on exits.
But agreed, he was good elsewhere, we created alot, put ourselves in position only to be undone by our very poor kicking game
What I can't work out is how much is BB at fault, and how much is Razor's team strategy
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@canefan kicking is probably part of the game plan, I doubt BBs execution of said kicks can be laid at the feet of anyone bar BB.
Tactical kicking is certainly a weak part of most NZ teams right now
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan kicking is probably part of the game plan, I doubt BBs execution of said kicks can be laid at the feet of anyone bar BB.
Tactical kicking is certainly a weak part of most NZ teams right now
Yup. Kicking, kick contests, and exits are all Achilles heels for this team. It will likely cost us at least one game this season
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan when kicks were the right option, he kicked the wrong type or just a shit kick that hes been doing for some time now.
Add in poor chasing, extremely poor aerial skills, we should have put the kicks away in the 2nd half except on exits.
But agreed, he was good elsewhere, we created alot, put ourselves in position only to be undone by our very poor kicking game
What I can't work out is how much is BB at fault, and how much is Razor's team strategy
@canefan said in All Blacks v France I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan when kicks were the right option, he kicked the wrong type or just a shit kick that hes been doing for some time now.
Add in poor chasing, extremely poor aerial skills, we should have put the kicks away in the 2nd half except on exits.
But agreed, he was good elsewhere, we created alot, put ourselves in position only to be undone by our very poor kicking game
What I can't work out is how much is BB at fault, and how much is Razor's team strategy
Vern would have to also be at fault - I've mentioned a few times during SR how bizarre it is. If it's against coaches instruction, he'd be dropped, if the coaches are instructing him to do it... what the fuck?
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@Frank said in All Blacks v France I:
Rieko came on the scene with insane athleticism.
Fast, strong and elusive.Since then, he has not improved his kicking game, aerial game or passing game.
Yes.
In rugby as in any sport players whose best attributes are athleticism, speed etc age badly if they don't add to their repertoire because once they lose a bit of pace they can't reinvent themselves.
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks v France I:
@Frank said in All Blacks v France I:
Rieko came on the scene with insane athleticism.
Fast, strong and elusive.Since then, he has not improved his kicking game, aerial game or passing game.
Yes.
In rugby as in any sport players whose best attributes are athleticism, speed etc age badly if they don't add to their repertoire because once they lose a bit of pace they can't reinvent themselves.
You could be talking about BB as well. DMac may head in the same direction if he is not careful.
