All Blacks v France I
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@canefan kicking is probably part of the game plan, I doubt BBs execution of said kicks can be laid at the feet of anyone bar BB.
Tactical kicking is certainly a weak part of most NZ teams right now
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan kicking is probably part of the game plan, I doubt BBs execution of said kicks can be laid at the feet of anyone bar BB.
Tactical kicking is certainly a weak part of most NZ teams right now
Yup. Kicking, kick contests, and exits are all Achilles heels for this team. It will likely cost us at least one game this season
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan when kicks were the right option, he kicked the wrong type or just a shit kick that hes been doing for some time now.
Add in poor chasing, extremely poor aerial skills, we should have put the kicks away in the 2nd half except on exits.
But agreed, he was good elsewhere, we created alot, put ourselves in position only to be undone by our very poor kicking game
What I can't work out is how much is BB at fault, and how much is Razor's team strategy
@canefan said in All Blacks v France I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan when kicks were the right option, he kicked the wrong type or just a shit kick that hes been doing for some time now.
Add in poor chasing, extremely poor aerial skills, we should have put the kicks away in the 2nd half except on exits.
But agreed, he was good elsewhere, we created alot, put ourselves in position only to be undone by our very poor kicking game
What I can't work out is how much is BB at fault, and how much is Razor's team strategy
Vern would have to also be at fault - I've mentioned a few times during SR how bizarre it is. If it's against coaches instruction, he'd be dropped, if the coaches are instructing him to do it... what the fuck?
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@Frank said in All Blacks v France I:
Rieko came on the scene with insane athleticism.
Fast, strong and elusive.Since then, he has not improved his kicking game, aerial game or passing game.
Yes.
In rugby as in any sport players whose best attributes are athleticism, speed etc age badly if they don't add to their repertoire because once they lose a bit of pace they can't reinvent themselves.
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks v France I:
@Frank said in All Blacks v France I:
Rieko came on the scene with insane athleticism.
Fast, strong and elusive.Since then, he has not improved his kicking game, aerial game or passing game.
Yes.
In rugby as in any sport players whose best attributes are athleticism, speed etc age badly if they don't add to their repertoire because once they lose a bit of pace they can't reinvent themselves.
You could be talking about BB as well. DMac may head in the same direction if he is not careful.
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@canefan said in All Blacks v France I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan when kicks were the right option, he kicked the wrong type or just a shit kick that hes been doing for some time now.
Add in poor chasing, extremely poor aerial skills, we should have put the kicks away in the 2nd half except on exits.
But agreed, he was good elsewhere, we created alot, put ourselves in position only to be undone by our very poor kicking game
What I can't work out is how much is BB at fault, and how much is Razor's team strategy
Vern would have to also be at fault - I've mentioned a few times during SR how bizarre it is. If it's against coaches instruction, he'd be dropped, if the coaches are instructing him to do it... what the fuck?
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan when kicks were the right option, he kicked the wrong type or just a shit kick that hes been doing for some time now.
Add in poor chasing, extremely poor aerial skills, we should have put the kicks away in the 2nd half except on exits.
But agreed, he was good elsewhere, we created alot, put ourselves in position only to be undone by our very poor kicking game
What I can't work out is how much is BB at fault, and how much is Razor's team strategy
Vern would have to also be at fault - I've mentioned a few times during SR how bizarre it is. If it's against coaches instruction, he'd be dropped, if the coaches are instructing him to do it... what the fuck?
He's done the same thing under multiple coaches, so I reckon it's him. Probably a hang over from when he was really quick. His speed would allow him to turn a lot of those kicks into something. Remember when the ball would bounce for him? He's not alone in thinking he can still do what he did when he was younger.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan when kicks were the right option, he kicked the wrong type or just a shit kick that hes been doing for some time now.
Add in poor chasing, extremely poor aerial skills, we should have put the kicks away in the 2nd half except on exits.
But agreed, he was good elsewhere, we created alot, put ourselves in position only to be undone by our very poor kicking game
What I can't work out is how much is BB at fault, and how much is Razor's team strategy
Vern would have to also be at fault - I've mentioned a few times during SR how bizarre it is. If it's against coaches instruction, he'd be dropped, if the coaches are instructing him to do it... what the fuck?
He's done the same thing under multiple coaches, so I reckon it's him. Probably a hang over from when he was really quick. His speed would allow him to turn a lot of those kicks into something. Remember when the ball would bounce for him? He's not alone in thinking he can still do what he did when he was younger.
@Crazy-Horse so then the coaches are either all for it, or just lump it and don't say anything, for that one in ten times it actually works.
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Finau for a big unit really added no impact in this game,He was passive in the tackle he got knocked back a few times.And went no where forward.
Even though Vai'i maybe found out as a bit slow at 6 in the harder games, he was 100% better than Finau. -
On the forwards.
Very nice to see a big man dominant in the middle of our lineout. They know it's going there, but they can't stop it.
Newell seems to do quite a bit of breakdown work.
Taylor very good - I'd still swap him with Samisoni and give the latter 40 minutes flat out for strong carries in traffic, then Taylor the rest of the game - a more accurate thrower and leader to close out tight games.
Vaai was okay at 6, worked hard as always. As someone said where's our PSDT/Wilson - that's not really going to be Vaai. Not sure a lock at 6 matches the desire to play fast and wide.
CLW pretty good - solid, no errors, nothing that says to me that he'll be world XV and the winning of games against the best teams though, and I'd have to question how many stop-gaps we need.
Savea, not bad but not the same standard as his super form?
Overall our set piece was good, and our rucks were generally pretty quick though we did give up several turnovers while hardly getting any ourselves - despite Savea and Kirifi both playing.@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
CLW pretty good - solid, no errors, nothing that says to me that he'll be world XV and the winning of games against the best teams though, and I'd have to question how many stop-gaps we need.
An injury forced change given by the end of last year they had moved Sititi to #8 and it appeared to be where they wanted to go this year by naming CLW as injury cover as a specialist #8.
I suspect now he will make the TRC squad where Razor and co get to add a couple more permanently to the squad.
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Finau for a big unit really added no impact in this game,He was passive in the tackle he got knocked back a few times.And went no where forward.
Even though Vai'i maybe found out as a bit slow at 6 in the harder games, he was 100% better than Finau. -
Finau for a big unit really added no impact in this game,He was passive in the tackle he got knocked back a few times.And went no where forward.
Even though Vai'i maybe found out as a bit slow at 6 in the harder games, he was 100% better than Finau.@Chris said in All Blacks v France I:
Finau for a big unit really added no impact in this game,He was passive in the tackle he got knocked back a few times.And went no where forward.
Even though Vai'i maybe found out as a bit slow at 6 in the harder games, he was 100% better than Finau.You'd be forgiven for thinking Frizzel was back already.
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BBs worst kick was the fucking attempted grubber through 3 compressed defenders while we were pouring forward. Idiotic
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France I:
BBs worst kick was the fucking attempted grubber through 3 compressed defenders while we were pouring forward. Idiotic
Yeah, DMac did exactly the same thing in the lead up to the Proctor no-try, but luckily it bounced back into his arms off the defenders legs. Across the park we take low percentage options that cost us.
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@Chris said in All Blacks v France I:
Finau for a big unit really added no impact in this game,He was passive in the tackle he got knocked back a few times.And went no where forward.
Even though Vai'i maybe found out as a bit slow at 6 in the harder games, he was 100% better than Finau.You'd be forgiven for thinking Frizzel was back already.
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@Chris said in All Blacks v France I:
Finau for a big unit really added no impact in this game,He was passive in the tackle he got knocked back a few times.And went no where forward.
Even though Vai'i maybe found out as a bit slow at 6 in the harder games, he was 100% better than Finau.You'd be forgiven for thinking Frizzel was back already.
Yep it is like watching all that shit again.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
I guess the issue with BB and his kicking, is he either is 'allowed' to kick or told he shouldn't...I doubt any coach will do that.
I think he has had free reign for so long, he sees space then poorly executes...
It was notable when we put our kicking boots away, we were all over them and looking like breaking loose, but didn't, then re went back to the kicking duel, which kept putting ourselves under pressure.
Kicking asid, BB went pretty well, so how do you get your hugely experienced 10 to kick less?
His passing was really pretty good, best we've seen from him this year, and he kicked his goals well. But fuck me, he kicks so much attacking ball away it does my head in. Each one of those should be treated as a turnover, because that's what they are - if someone knocked the ball on multiple times every game while hot on attack, they would be crucified.
I'm sure there'll be some game where it all comes off and we look amazing and put 50 on some team, but most of the time it means not converting opportunities or applying pressure. that's how you get France C staying close enough to potentially snatch victory - and there are several teams out there better than France C.And he can't exit with distance. And missed touch from a penalty. And a defensive bomb. And we still don't chase and contest - TBH that's the bit that really confuses me - because if it's a plan, sack the chasers. if it's not a plan, sack the kicker.
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
I guess the issue with BB and his kicking, is he either is 'allowed' to kick or told he shouldn't...I doubt any coach will do that.
I think he has had free reign for so long, he sees space then poorly executes...
It was notable when we put our kicking boots away, we were all over them and looking like breaking loose, but didn't, then re went back to the kicking duel, which kept putting ourselves under pressure.
Kicking asid, BB went pretty well, so how do you get your hugely experienced 10 to kick less?
His passing was really pretty good, best we've seen from him this year, and he kicked his goals well. But fuck me, he kicks so much attacking ball away it does my head in. Each one of those should be treated as a turnover, because that's what they are - if someone knocked the ball on multiple times every game while hot on attack, they would be crucified.
I'm sure there'll be some game where it all comes off and we look amazing and put 50 on some team, but most of the time it means not converting opportunities or applying pressure. that's how you get France C staying close enough to potentially snatch victory - and there are several teams out there better than France C.And he can't exit with distance. And missed touch from a penalty. And a defensive bomb. And we still don't chase and contest - TBH that's the bit that really confuses me - because if it's a plan, sack the chasers. if it's not a plan, sack the kicker.
It was noticeable that France had two or three effective chasers, whereas we often had no one getting near the ball.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan when kicks were the right option, he kicked the wrong type or just a shit kick that hes been doing for some time now.
Add in poor chasing, extremely poor aerial skills, we should have put the kicks away in the 2nd half except on exits.
But agreed, he was good elsewhere, we created alot, put ourselves in position only to be undone by our very poor kicking game
What I can't work out is how much is BB at fault, and how much is Razor's team strategy
@canefan said in All Blacks v France I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan when kicks were the right option, he kicked the wrong type or just a shit kick that hes been doing for some time now.
Add in poor chasing, extremely poor aerial skills, we should have put the kicks away in the 2nd half except on exits.
But agreed, he was good elsewhere, we created alot, put ourselves in position only to be undone by our very poor kicking game
What I can't work out is how much is BB at fault, and how much is Razor's team strategy
To me, BB plays basically the same under any coach.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan when kicks were the right option, he kicked the wrong type or just a shit kick that hes been doing for some time now.
Add in poor chasing, extremely poor aerial skills, we should have put the kicks away in the 2nd half except on exits.
But agreed, he was good elsewhere, we created alot, put ourselves in position only to be undone by our very poor kicking game
What I can't work out is how much is BB at fault, and how much is Razor's team strategy
Vern would have to also be at fault - I've mentioned a few times during SR how bizarre it is. If it's against coaches instruction, he'd be dropped, if the coaches are instructing him to do it... what the fuck?
He's done the same thing under multiple coaches, so I reckon it's him. Probably a hang over from when he was really quick. His speed would allow him to turn a lot of those kicks into something. Remember when the ball would bounce for him? He's not alone in thinking he can still do what he did when he was younger.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan when kicks were the right option, he kicked the wrong type or just a shit kick that hes been doing for some time now.
Add in poor chasing, extremely poor aerial skills, we should have put the kicks away in the 2nd half except on exits.
But agreed, he was good elsewhere, we created alot, put ourselves in position only to be undone by our very poor kicking game
What I can't work out is how much is BB at fault, and how much is Razor's team strategy
Vern would have to also be at fault - I've mentioned a few times during SR how bizarre it is. If it's against coaches instruction, he'd be dropped, if the coaches are instructing him to do it... what the fuck?
He's done the same thing under multiple coaches, so I reckon it's him. Probably a hang over from when he was really quick. His speed would allow him to turn a lot of those kicks into something. Remember when the ball would bounce for him? He's not alone in thinking he can still do what he did when he was younger.
There was the Chiefs finals match.
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@canefan said in All Blacks v France I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan when kicks were the right option, he kicked the wrong type or just a shit kick that hes been doing for some time now.
Add in poor chasing, extremely poor aerial skills, we should have put the kicks away in the 2nd half except on exits.
But agreed, he was good elsewhere, we created alot, put ourselves in position only to be undone by our very poor kicking game
What I can't work out is how much is BB at fault, and how much is Razor's team strategy
To me, BB plays basically the same under any coach.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan when kicks were the right option, he kicked the wrong type or just a shit kick that hes been doing for some time now.
Add in poor chasing, extremely poor aerial skills, we should have put the kicks away in the 2nd half except on exits.
But agreed, he was good elsewhere, we created alot, put ourselves in position only to be undone by our very poor kicking game
What I can't work out is how much is BB at fault, and how much is Razor's team strategy
To me, BB plays basically the same under any coach.
So is he not receptive to being coached, or are all his coaches either too chicken shit to tell him to change, or they like the uncontrolled way he plays?
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Why aren't lessons permanently learned ?
Every rugby team knows to have chasers.
We'll hear about how they saw that as a "work on" in training.
Every rugby player knows low percentage plays aren't for test rugby.The rugby IQ of our team seems substandard.
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If I had one piece of advice for them they'd listen to, it would be, get the best NH kicking coach they can find.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France I:
If I had one piece of advice for them they'd listen to, it would be, get the best NH kicking coach they can find.
Ronan O'Gara was with Razor at the Saders wasn't he?
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
I guess the issue with BB and his kicking, is he either is 'allowed' to kick or told he shouldn't...I doubt any coach will do that.
I think he has had free reign for so long, he sees space then poorly executes...
It was notable when we put our kicking boots away, we were all over them and looking like breaking loose, but didn't, then re went back to the kicking duel, which kept putting ourselves under pressure.
Kicking asid, BB went pretty well, so how do you get your hugely experienced 10 to kick less?
His passing was really pretty good, best we've seen from him this year, and he kicked his goals well. But fuck me, he kicks so much attacking ball away it does my head in. Each one of those should be treated as a turnover, because that's what they are - if someone knocked the ball on multiple times every game while hot on attack, they would be crucified.
I'm sure there'll be some game where it all comes off and we look amazing and put 50 on some team, but most of the time it means not converting opportunities or applying pressure. that's how you get France C staying close enough to potentially snatch victory - and there are several teams out there better than France C.And he can't exit with distance. And missed touch from a penalty. And a defensive bomb. And we still don't chase and contest - TBH that's the bit that really confuses me - because if it's a plan, sack the chasers. if it's not a plan, sack the kicker.
It was noticeable that France had two or three effective chasers, whereas we often had no one getting near the ball.
@pakman said in All Blacks v France I:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
I guess the issue with BB and his kicking, is he either is 'allowed' to kick or told he shouldn't...I doubt any coach will do that.
I think he has had free reign for so long, he sees space then poorly executes...
It was notable when we put our kicking boots away, we were all over them and looking like breaking loose, but didn't, then re went back to the kicking duel, which kept putting ourselves under pressure.
Kicking asid, BB went pretty well, so how do you get your hugely experienced 10 to kick less?
His passing was really pretty good, best we've seen from him this year, and he kicked his goals well. But fuck me, he kicks so much attacking ball away it does my head in. Each one of those should be treated as a turnover, because that's what they are - if someone knocked the ball on multiple times every game while hot on attack, they would be crucified.
I'm sure there'll be some game where it all comes off and we look amazing and put 50 on some team, but most of the time it means not converting opportunities or applying pressure. that's how you get France C staying close enough to potentially snatch victory - and there are several teams out there better than France C.And he can't exit with distance. And missed touch from a penalty. And a defensive bomb. And we still don't chase and contest - TBH that's the bit that really confuses me - because if it's a plan, sack the chasers. if it's not a plan, sack the kicker.
It was noticeable that France had two or three effective chasers, whereas we often had no one getting near the ball.
What was most frustrating, was when we do have chasers, they seem coached to wait for the ball to either hit the turf or be caught by the opposition. Really substandard.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan when kicks were the right option, he kicked the wrong type or just a shit kick that hes been doing for some time now.
Add in poor chasing, extremely poor aerial skills, we should have put the kicks away in the 2nd half except on exits.
But agreed, he was good elsewhere, we created alot, put ourselves in position only to be undone by our very poor kicking game
What I can't work out is how much is BB at fault, and how much is Razor's team strategy
To me, BB plays basically the same under any coach.
So is he not receptive to being coached, or are all his coaches either too chicken shit to tell him to change, or they like the uncontrolled way he plays?
@canefan said in All Blacks v France I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France I:
@canefan when kicks were the right option, he kicked the wrong type or just a shit kick that hes been doing for some time now.
Add in poor chasing, extremely poor aerial skills, we should have put the kicks away in the 2nd half except on exits.
But agreed, he was good elsewhere, we created alot, put ourselves in position only to be undone by our very poor kicking game
What I can't work out is how much is BB at fault, and how much is Razor's team strategy
To me, BB plays basically the same under any coach.
So is he not receptive to being coached, or are all his coaches either too chicken shit to tell him to change, or they like the uncontrolled way he plays?
Could be 2 or 3 out of those 3 options you name.
