All Blacks v France III
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@voodoo said in All Blacks v France 2:
Seems odd that a visiting team would target the dead rubber Game 3 of a series as “the big one” that they want to win, but who the hell understands the French eh?
The logic seems to be that they'll target the third game because that's the game where the ABs were always expected to rotate their squad.
It's less odd when you start out from the premise that the French would be more than happy with a 2-1 series result. Then it makes (sort of) sense that they'd target the Test where the ABs are at their least experienced.
Not particularly in the spirit of the series but it's clear that both sides have very different approaches to these Tests.
@Mauss said in All Blacks v France III:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France 2:
Seems odd that a visiting team would target the dead rubber Game 3 of a series as “the big one” that they want to win, but who the hell understands the French eh?
The logic seems to be that they'll target the third game because that's the game where the ABs were always expected to rotate their squad.
This makes a very big assumption by the French that not playing our incumbents would weaken our team.
The last few years have weakened my belief that this would be the case.
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@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:
The backline and loose forwards have a number of question marks around them. It's not clear who the third and forth choice players are in a number of positions and even 1st and 2nd choice are not clear either.
A number of players are cruising off the back of a dominant tight five. We probably aren't going to get the same level of tight five dominance against first choice top 4 teams.
I don’t disagree but from within the squad they’ve chosen and with the players out injured, I don’t see much they can do to find the answers to those questions.
They know guys like Jordie Barrett, Will Jordan and Cam Roigard are going to be in the team. They know Ardie Savea is going to be in the team and Vaa’i should be persisted with at blindside with no uninjured potentially better options available.
The guys who haven’t played yet are Love, third-choice players and Lienert-Brown who they know all about and who has been slipping in form for a while now.
I just don’t see much benefit in making more than a handful of changes. Keep the core group together and hope they continue to improve.
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v France III:
The guys who haven’t played yet are all clearly third-choice other than Lienert-Brown who they know all about and who has been slipping in form for a while now.
There's no evidence so far that Lio Willie and Kirifi are better than Jacobson and Papali'i.
Based on what we've seen from BB and Dmac, Love has to be given an opportunity. It's not clear that these guys offer more than what Love potentially could.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v France III:
The guys who haven’t played yet are all clearly third-choice other than Lienert-Brown who they know all about and who has been slipping in form for a while now.
There's no evidence so far that Lio Willie and Kirifi are better than Jacobson and Papali'i.
Based on what we've seen from BB and Dmac, Love has to be given an opportunity. It's not clear that these guys offer more than what Love potentially could.
@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v France III:
The guys who haven’t played yet are all clearly third-choice other than Lienert-Brown who they know all about and who has been slipping in form for a while now.
There's no evidence so far that Lio Willie and Kirifi are better than Jacobson and Papali'i.
Based on what we've seen from BB and Dmac, Love has to be given an opportunity. It's not clear that these guys offer more than what Love potentially could.
I said in my original post I’d give Love a full half. Jacobson is out injured, isn’t he? And I feel like Lakai would be in the squad if fit ahead of Kirifi and Papali'i.
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@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v France III:
The guys who haven’t played yet are all clearly third-choice other than Lienert-Brown who they know all about and who has been slipping in form for a while now.
There's no evidence so far that Lio Willie and Kirifi are better than Jacobson and Papali'i.
Based on what we've seen from BB and Dmac, Love has to be given an opportunity. It's not clear that these guys offer more than what Love potentially could.
I said in my original post I’d give Love a full half. Jacobson is out injured, isn’t he? And I feel like Lakai would be in the squad if fit ahead of Kirifi and Papali'i.
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v France III:
I said in my original post I’d give Love a full half. Jacobson is out injured, isn’t he? And I feel like Lakai would be in the squad if fit ahead of Kirifi and Papali'i.
Lakai is one of the few 'utilities' we have that seems to offer potential but genuine impact in more than one position. I get the impression (and Canes supporters can correct me) that he has pretty good rugby vision for someone relatively young, and despite not being a big loose forward he is reasonably robust and athletic (but not sure if that is as obvious this season as last-haven't seen enough Hurricanes games).
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@MN5 said in All Blacks v France III:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:
The backline and loose forwards have a number of question marks around them. It's not clear who the third and forth choice players are in a number of positions and even 1st and 2nd choice are not clear either.
A number of players are cruising off the back of a dominant tight five. We probably aren't going to get the same level of tight five dominance against first choice top 4 teams.
Which to me makes guys like Kirifi and Lio Willie surplus to requirements against the really big guns.
That move the latter did to set up Roigard was cool though.
Yes Lio Willie has been better than Kirifi. The way injuries come around it seems that Lio Willie can be relied on to do a job but he doesn't really seem to have the attributes to grab the starting position with both hands and not let go for the next 4 years. So a bit of a stop gap measure at this stage?
@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v France III:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:
The backline and loose forwards have a number of question marks around them. It's not clear who the third and forth choice players are in a number of positions and even 1st and 2nd choice are not clear either.
A number of players are cruising off the back of a dominant tight five. We probably aren't going to get the same level of tight five dominance against first choice top 4 teams.
Which to me makes guys like Kirifi and Lio Willie surplus to requirements against the really big guns.
That move the latter did to set up Roigard was cool though.
Yes Lio Willie has been better than Kirifi. The way injuries come around it seems that Lio Willie can be relied on to do a job but he doesn't really seem to have the attributes to grab the starting position with both hands and not let go for the next 4 years. So a bit of a stop gap measure at this stage?
A good solid backup to Sititi I reckon.
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@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v France III:
The guys who haven’t played yet are all clearly third-choice other than Lienert-Brown who they know all about and who has been slipping in form for a while now.
There's no evidence so far that Lio Willie and Kirifi are better than Jacobson and Papali'i.
Based on what we've seen from BB and Dmac, Love has to be given an opportunity. It's not clear that these guys offer more than what Love potentially could.
I said in my original post I’d give Love a full half. Jacobson is out injured, isn’t he? And I feel like Lakai would be in the squad if fit ahead of Kirifi and Papali'i.
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v France III:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v France III:
The guys who haven’t played yet are all clearly third-choice other than Lienert-Brown who they know all about and who has been slipping in form for a while now.
There's no evidence so far that Lio Willie and Kirifi are better than Jacobson and Papali'i.
Based on what we've seen from BB and Dmac, Love has to be given an opportunity. It's not clear that these guys offer more than what Love potentially could.
I said in my original post I’d give Love a full half. Jacobson is out injured, isn’t he? And I feel like Lakai would be in the squad if fit ahead of Kirifi and Papali'i.
Fair enough I missed that inclusion of Love. Hotham over Ratima is also worth investigating.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v France III:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v France III:
The guys who haven’t played yet are all clearly third-choice other than Lienert-Brown who they know all about and who has been slipping in form for a while now.
There's no evidence so far that Lio Willie and Kirifi are better than Jacobson and Papali'i.
Based on what we've seen from BB and Dmac, Love has to be given an opportunity. It's not clear that these guys offer more than what Love potentially could.
I said in my original post I’d give Love a full half. Jacobson is out injured, isn’t he? And I feel like Lakai would be in the squad if fit ahead of Kirifi and Papali'i.
Fair enough I missed that inclusion of Love. Hotham over Ratima is also worth investigating.
@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v France III:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v France III:
The guys who haven’t played yet are all clearly third-choice other than Lienert-Brown who they know all about and who has been slipping in form for a while now.
There's no evidence so far that Lio Willie and Kirifi are better than Jacobson and Papali'i.
Based on what we've seen from BB and Dmac, Love has to be given an opportunity. It's not clear that these guys offer more than what Love potentially could.
I said in my original post I’d give Love a full half. Jacobson is out injured, isn’t he? And I feel like Lakai would be in the squad if fit ahead of Kirifi and Papali'i.
Fair enough I missed that inclusion of Love. Hotham over Ratima is also worth investigating.
That’s my fault, I mentioned Love in one sentence, then generalised the players who hadn’t played in another.
Hotham’’s a possibility. I’m kind of interested to see how things might go if they started with the second choice halfback and brought Roigard on at (or even before) half time, rather than keeping him on the field till hes out on his feet. The next best halfbacks don’t seem to have much impact off the bench so it might be an idea to give them the first thirty just to be solid against a fresh and fired up opposition.
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Vaa'i is a major injury doubt so something like
1 De Groot
2 Taukei'aho
3 Newell (Lomax)
4 Tuipolutu
5 Holland
6 Jacobson
7 Kirifi
8 A. Savea (c)
9 Hotham
10 Love
11 R Ioane
12 J. Barrett
13 Q. Tupaea
14 Narawa
15 Jordan16 McAlister, 17 Norris 18 Tosi 19 Finau 20 Papalii 21 Roigard 22 Big Jim 23 DMac
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Razor is basically selecting how he should have last season. Better late than never. Somehow he needs to rotate BB out to take a look at Love. Maybe DMac to start then Love comes on for 30 minutes? Or be really bold and start Love?
@canefan said in All Blacks v France III:
Razor is basically selecting how he should have last season
Yes
It was a fault.
We need to explore options at first five right now. Currently our first five tactical kicking and exits are poor. Still getting too many aimless up and unders.
Roigard showed outstanding skill with tactical kicking on Saturday and the 10 needs to do the same.Sititi-Roigard-?-Jordie is now strong. Who's going to grab the ? to take us to 2027.
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I agree DMac's form has warranted more of a run at 10.
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@canefan said in All Blacks v France III:
Razor is basically selecting how he should have last season
Yes
It was a fault.
We need to explore options at first five right now. Currently our first five tactical kicking and exits are poor. Still getting too many aimless up and unders.
Roigard showed outstanding skill with tactical kicking on Saturday and the 10 needs to do the same.Sititi-Roigard-?-Jordie is now strong. Who's going to grab the ? to take us to 2027.
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v France III:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France III:
Razor is basically selecting how he should have last season
Yes
It was a fault.
We need to explore options at first five right now. Currently our first five tactical kicking and exits are poor. Still getting too many aimless up and unders.
Roigard showed outstanding skill with tactical kicking on Saturday and the 10 needs to do the same.Sititi-Roigard-?-Jordie is now strong. Who's going to grab the ? to take us to 2027.
He'll be thrilled getting a mention despite not playing this year. Charlie Ngatai never had it so good.
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Tuipulotu is in doubt too apparently. 50 50 with his knee. Vaa'i failed his HIA.
So we could see Ah Kuoi starting with Holland and Finau at 6.
Next cab off the rank at lock would be one of Beehre, Mcwhannel, Walker Leawere or Shalfoon.
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@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v France III:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:
The backline and loose forwards have a number of question marks around them. It's not clear who the third and forth choice players are in a number of positions and even 1st and 2nd choice are not clear either.
A number of players are cruising off the back of a dominant tight five. We probably aren't going to get the same level of tight five dominance against first choice top 4 teams.
Which to me makes guys like Kirifi and Lio Willie surplus to requirements against the really big guns.
That move the latter did to set up Roigard was cool though.
Yes Lio Willie has been better than Kirifi. The way injuries come around it seems that Lio Willie can be relied on to do a job but he doesn't really seem to have the attributes to grab the starting position with both hands and not let go for the next 4 years. So a bit of a stop gap measure at this stage?
A good solid backup to Sititi I reckon.
@frugby said in All Blacks v France III:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v France III:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:
The backline and loose forwards have a number of question marks around them. It's not clear who the third and forth choice players are in a number of positions and even 1st and 2nd choice are not clear either.
A number of players are cruising off the back of a dominant tight five. We probably aren't going to get the same level of tight five dominance against first choice top 4 teams.
Which to me makes guys like Kirifi and Lio Willie surplus to requirements against the really big guns.
That move the latter did to set up Roigard was cool though.
Yes Lio Willie has been better than Kirifi. The way injuries come around it seems that Lio Willie can be relied on to do a job but he doesn't really seem to have the attributes to grab the starting position with both hands and not let go for the next 4 years. So a bit of a stop gap measure at this stage?
A good solid backup to Sititi I reckon.
More a good Super player who is adequate at test level in a good team.
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Tuipulotu is in doubt too apparently. 50 50 with his knee. Vaa'i failed his HIA.
So we could see Ah Kuoi starting with Holland and Finau at 6.
Next cab off the rank at lock would be one of Beehre, Mcwhannel, Walker Leawere or Shalfoon.
@brodean said in All Blacks v France III:
Tuipulotu is in doubt too apparently. 50 50 with his knee. Vaa'i failed his HIA.
So we could see Ah Kuoi starting with Holland and Finau at 6.
Next cab off the rank at lock would be one of Beehre, Mcwhannel, Walker Leawere or Shalfoon.
Well who could ever have guessed that selecting 4 locks then playing 3 of them at once could lead to problems with injury cover.
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Tuipulotu is in doubt too apparently. 50 50 with his knee. Vaa'i failed his HIA.
So we could see Ah Kuoi starting with Holland and Finau at 6.
Next cab off the rank at lock would be one of Beehre, Mcwhannel, Walker Leawere or Shalfoon.
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Already touched upon in here but sounds like Vaa'i is out and Tuipulotu and Will Jordan have niggles while Reece and Jacobson are in the frame for the third Test.
Also sounds like Love is seen as a fullback first and foremost and is unlikely to get too many minutes at 10 (which is not a shock, though somewhat disappointing).
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Robertson's gone pretty much experimental for the first 2 Tests so I'd be tempted to stick with what works or looks to be working, Scooter for Pat T in the forwards (if fit) and some rotation in the front row. Start Ratima with DMac, and keep Reiko & Jordan in place.
Give QT, Hotham & Lakai plenty of time off the bench.
Did Billy P do enough in the second half to keep him there and does Robertson give Love a shot over BB?
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Wow we now have substitutes for the substitutes who in at least one case were the originals substituted! (Scott Barrett). Would like a peek at another 6 and wing option (and maybe 8?) and hope we don't lose too much at 15.
