Aussie Pro Rugby
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My entire view of picking overseas players is reversed now that i understand Will Skelton goes home today. Fucking loved watching him running around the track grinning as he made an absolute menace of himself. Will be sorely missed, especially in South Africa
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fair point.
Economics are a bitch.
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@barbarian said in Aussie Pro Rugby:
Been thinking about the general positioning and talk of rugby in Australia.
For all the talk of rugby dying, or being 'back', I actually think we've found our level over the last 5-10 years and it's where we will stay.
We're a second tier rugby nation, on and off the field. There's enough support to sustain a viable Super competition, 6-8 Wallabies games a year and the odd Lions tour or World Cup. We will field competitive rugby sides that may have the odd good spell but will never be dominant.
Within the sporting landscape here, our place is to sit below AFL, NRL and cricket but above basketball, soccer and netball.
It's not super interesting to discuss, but I think that's how it is. And I'm largely OK with it, but it does mean accepting that a World Cup win in my lifetime may be a bit of a long shot.
A realistic if slightly pessimistic appraisal
How old are you?
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@barbarian said in Wallabies vs Lions III:
In a way it actually makes me firmer in my views. What if it was eight blokes getting on a plane instead of one?
I want to agree with @mariner4life point, because with Skelton vs without the Wallabies are just better.
But if you continually pick from overseas, there are no good places to draw the line. Giteau rule etc are all just arbitrary.
For me, it depends on whether we are prepared to give up our domestic rugby competitions as ‘premier’ comps or not. Arguably we already have but that’s a different topic.
To stay on topic, it was clear at the start of the series that the Wobs with Bobby V and Skelton would be a different beast. Both of them are fit and available from test 1 and the wallabies win that series, I think - probably still losing the first but winning the second so at least we’d have had a decider.
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@MiketheSnow said in Aussie Pro Rugby:
@barbarian said in Aussie Pro Rugby:
Been thinking about the general positioning and talk of rugby in Australia.
For all the talk of rugby dying, or being 'back', I actually think we've found our level over the last 5-10 years and it's where we will stay.
We're a second tier rugby nation, on and off the field. There's enough support to sustain a viable Super competition, 6-8 Wallabies games a year and the odd Lions tour or World Cup. We will field competitive rugby sides that may have the odd good spell but will never be dominant.
Within the sporting landscape here, our place is to sit below AFL, NRL and cricket but above basketball, soccer and netball.
It's not super interesting to discuss, but I think that's how it is. And I'm largely OK with it, but it does mean accepting that a World Cup win in my lifetime may be a bit of a long shot.
A realistic if slightly pessimistic appraisal
How old are you?
I am 37. Maybe slightly pessimistic. But I'd peg it at maybe 20% chance? We weren't that far away in 2015, if you get a good draw and the bounce of the ball you never know.
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On the discussion about selection of OS based players, you'll be hard pressed to find someone who thinks Skelton shouldn't be in the Wallabies every available match and then some.
But what should be equally obvious to my mind is he wouldn't have become the player he is today without having made the move.
And to cement my next point I look at how well Jordie has come back.
So it seems to me from a narrow pool of evidence that the quality of coaching and squad competition in the Top14 etc. may now be as good - if not better - than it is down here.
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@barbarian said in Aussie Pro Rugby:
@MiketheSnow said in Aussie Pro Rugby:
@barbarian said in Aussie Pro Rugby:
Been thinking about the general positioning and talk of rugby in Australia.
For all the talk of rugby dying, or being 'back', I actually think we've found our level over the last 5-10 years and it's where we will stay.
We're a second tier rugby nation, on and off the field. There's enough support to sustain a viable Super competition, 6-8 Wallabies games a year and the odd Lions tour or World Cup. We will field competitive rugby sides that may have the odd good spell but will never be dominant.
Within the sporting landscape here, our place is to sit below AFL, NRL and cricket but above basketball, soccer and netball.
It's not super interesting to discuss, but I think that's how it is. And I'm largely OK with it, but it does mean accepting that a World Cup win in my lifetime may be a bit of a long shot.
A realistic if slightly pessimistic appraisal
How old are you?
I am 37. Maybe slightly pessimistic. But I'd peg it at maybe 20% chance? We weren't that far away in 2015, if you get a good draw and the bounce of the ball you never know.
I’m 59 this year and still think Wales can do it in my lifetime
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Think this belongs here
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@antipodean It's certainly one of the big arguments in favour of letting players go.
But you have to draw the distinction of playing top tier Euro rugby and what happens in Japan. I don't think you could find many who get better by playing at Suntory, or wherever.
Which is why, to me, the Giteau rule is a better approach than an open borders policy.
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@antipodean said in Aussie Pro Rugby:
So it seems to me from a narrow pool of evidence that the quality of coaching and squad competition in the Top14 etc. may now be as good - if not better - than it is down here
i think they've gone past us, with a fair bit of our IP helping out.
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@mariner4life said in Aussie Pro Rugby:
@antipodean said in Aussie Pro Rugby:
So it seems to me from a narrow pool of evidence that the quality of coaching and squad competition in the Top14 etc. may now be as good - if not better - than it is down here
i think they've gone past us, with a fair bit of our IP helping out.
NH took their licks at the 2015 RWC and lifted their comps. So I agree with you - both for domestic comps and Tests
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@antipodean said in Aussie Pro Rugby:
On the discussion about selection of OS based players, you'll be hard pressed to find someone who thinks Skelton shouldn't be in the Wallabies every available match and then some.
But what should be equally obvious to my mind is he wouldn't have become the player he is today without having made the move.
And to cement my next point I look at how well Jordie has come back.
So it seems to me from a narrow pool of evidence that the quality of coaching and squad competition in the Top14 etc. may now be as good - if not better - than it is down here.
There is little incentive for us to be better with only 4 pro teams vs dozens - either in European Rugby or in other codes here.
We laugh at people saying "If NRL or AFL didn't exist...", but it has a valid core. So many layers to local rugby league in Sydney that keep the fire burning, and players aware that anyone is ready to take their job at a moment's notice. I imagine it is the same in the AFL.
When you look at some who have become Wallabies, you're left to wonder if they actually just fell into it. And politics plays a far bigger part in selections when you don't have volume.
e.g. Sydney West clubs/reps win a lot of competitions, only to see 2-3 players going into the system at higher levels. Why would they bother when a pay cheque is available in any one of dozens of local RL clubs?
