All Blacks v Argentina I
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@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Take the win, flush the dunny and move on.
Newell, Savea, Jordan and Sami T were the pick of the ABs.
Holland was good too. Taylor is reliable as ever.
Christie and ALB were awful.
Beauden Barrett is rocks and diamonds. Proctor is unconvincing. And neither of the wings set the world alight.
Anyway, nice to be Number 1 in the World again. Long may that continue!
We have some issues:
Why do we kick the ball away when you have a penalty advantage?
We clearly had the wood in the forwards but didn’t use it until the last 20.
We have to work on our on our aerial game. Someone has to go up. Someone.
@kev it's almost like Razor is to the aerial game as Mitchell was to the ruck...
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@stodders said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Darth-Sader they played better with him on the pitch, no?
Cant disagree with that. But just not sure he’s one of the top 2 locks in our squad atm. I think he’s a great, hard as nails player, but also not sure he’s long-term captain material.
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@sparky I’m not so sure. I don’t think France are that great. Certainly not a level above the Boks and ABs at the moment.
But as they didn’t send their best down south, we will never know. And we will be waiting until next year to see how the ABs measure up against them as they aren’t playing each other in November.
The Boks do play them in November, and I think they will best them (if they give up trying to be the All Blacks and play Bok rugby).
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@stodders said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@sparky standard of world rugby must be v poor right now if this current AB team are no 1
I mean, that McCaw team must been quite good to be so dominant at the top for so long
That McCaw team played against a bunch of plumbers and electricians. They would have no chance against today’s rugby athletes.
‘this is the LeBron vs Michael Jordan argument
@ACT-Crusader Jordan was better. Played against better defences
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Some thoughts
- Really pleasing that Samisoni showed some impact
- Ratima with his best game in the long time - a day game on dry track suits him
- Vaai continues to look a winner at 6
- Leroy Carter should get a run on the wing next week
- Proctor does some things better than Rieko and happy to keep giving him games but he hasn't set the world on fire just yet.
- Holland continues to look the business
- ALB puts in another awful bench performance - when is enough enough - get rid of the guy.
- pleasing ball running by Fletcher Newell.
- lineout is a real weapon.
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@African-Monkey turn into a YC magnate
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@African-Monkey turn into a YC magnate
Didn't know he was that rich
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@kev said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kev said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Proctor or ALB - an underwhelming selection choice.
At least Proctor did a few good things tonight in amongst the poor things. The problem really lies around the fluidity of our backline. Right now it isn’t functioning which isn’t helping newbies like Proctor settle in to their role.
So clunky.
Proctor has a lot of upside. Stick with him. A yellow card on D is not the worst offence.
What upside, exactly?
Hands, distribution and stepping are much better than Reiko. His work rate is really good. Every player makes a few mistakes. That’s the nature of sport. I think he will grow into his role.
He's demonstrated nothing that his fluffers were banging on about when clamouring for him to be the All Black centre. What he has demonstrated is how much we relied on Rieko's defence.
Which goes back to my point that perhaps the problem wasn't Rieko; it was the coaching of the backline.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kev said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kev said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Proctor or ALB - an underwhelming selection choice.
At least Proctor did a few good things tonight in amongst the poor things. The problem really lies around the fluidity of our backline. Right now it isn’t functioning which isn’t helping newbies like Proctor settle in to their role.
So clunky.
Proctor has a lot of upside. Stick with him. A yellow card on D is not the worst offence.
What upside, exactly?
Hands, distribution and stepping are much better than Reiko. His work rate is really good. Every player makes a few mistakes. That’s the nature of sport. I think he will grow into his role.
He's demonstrated nothing that his fluffers were banging on about when clamouring for him to be the All Black centre. What he has demonstrated is how much we relied on Rieko's defence.
Which goes back to my point that perhaps the problem wasn't Rieko; it was the coaching of the backline.
Proctor will get better, the problem is most of our backline isn’t playing well and the fact we keep kicking the ball away baffles me.
The coaching of our backs is poor. Apart from Jordan every single back out there today made far too many errors. Not good enough.
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@stodders They lost by a point at Twickenham, but apart from that they carved it up in the Six Nations.
Louis Bielle-Biarrey is the best back in the world currently.
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@Darth-Sader who is captain material?
I don’t think it is Ardie long term either.
Long term, I think it could Va’ai or Jordie Barrett.
@stodders said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Darth-Sader who is captain material?
I don’t think it is Ardie long term either.
Long term, I think it could Va’ai or Jordie Barrett.
By all accounts BB and Cane were essentially running the team by the end of the WC. I agree that neither BB and Ardie are longer term options. Possibly an outside opinion here, but I would groom Will Jordan. He’s smart, seems to have a good read on the game and is arguably the best player in his position in the world.
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@stodders They lost by a point at Twickenham, but apart from that they carved it up in the Six Nations.
Louis Bielle-Biarrey is the best back in the world currently.
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@stodders said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Darth-Sader who is captain material?
I don’t think it is Ardie long term either.
Long term, I think it could Va’ai or Jordie Barrett.
By all accounts BB and Cane were essentially running the team by the end of the WC. I agree that neither BB and Ardie are longer term options. Possibly an outside opinion here, but I would groom Will Jordan. He’s smart, seems to have a good read on the game and is arguably the best player in his position in the world.
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Some thoughts
- Really pleasing that Samisoni showed some impact
- Ratima with his best game in the long time - a day game on dry track suits him
- Vaai continues to look a winner at 6
- Leroy Carter should get a run on the wing next week
- Proctor does some things better than Rieko and happy to keep giving him games but he hasn't set the world on fire just yet.
- Holland continues to look the business
- ALB puts in another awful bench performance - when is enough enough - get rid of the guy.
- pleasing ball running by Fletcher Newell.
- lineout is a real weapon.
@KiwiMurph set piece is a weapon, and the maul.
ABs playing like the Boks. It wins world cups
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Good solid victory by ABs. We seem a bit overcoached in my view. Our backs do not seem instinctive in their decisions, and their timing is way out as a consequence. May partly be instructions for 9 and 10 to hold back stuff for bigger matches, but backline does not look like really clicking.
Vaai has a great motor and Newell went very well. And I thought Reece and Taukeiaho deserved their tries for their efforts.
I hope we can play more to other strengths than mauling and scrumming for penalties in next test. I hope Carter or Narawa gets a crack on the wing. -
@Darth-Sader you need someone who can intimidate/persuade a ref in clutch moments.
Will Jordan ain’t that guy.
@stodders said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Darth-Sader you need someone who can intimidate/persuade a ref in clutch moments.
Will Jordan ain’t that guy.
Intimidate? I’m not sure that’s what you want in a captain. I agree you need to be able to apply the right kind of influence, but that’s not all about brawn. We do need leaders in the forwards, and I believe Ardie offers that for the time being. I’d also like to see what Holland and Va’ai can do as a locking combo. I like Scooter as a player, but he reminds me a more visible Reuben Thorne as a captain.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kev said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kev said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Proctor or ALB - an underwhelming selection choice.
At least Proctor did a few good things tonight in amongst the poor things. The problem really lies around the fluidity of our backline. Right now it isn’t functioning which isn’t helping newbies like Proctor settle in to their role.
So clunky.
Proctor has a lot of upside. Stick with him. A yellow card on D is not the worst offence.
What upside, exactly?
Hands, distribution and stepping are much better than Reiko. His work rate is really good. Every player makes a few mistakes. That’s the nature of sport. I think he will grow into his role.
He's demonstrated nothing that his fluffers were banging on about when clamouring for him to be the All Black centre. What he has demonstrated is how much we relied on Rieko's defence.
Which goes back to my point that perhaps the problem wasn't Rieko; it was the coaching of the backline.
Except Riekos also been just as bad in Super Rugby for years.
So your argument is "ignore All Black form, it's SR that matters for Tests"?
Huh? You said maybe Rieko is only average at internationals because of the coaching?
I responded saying he's been performing just as poorly in SR. Unless you think it's the coaches fault in SR as well?
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kev said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kev said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Proctor or ALB - an underwhelming selection choice.
At least Proctor did a few good things tonight in amongst the poor things. The problem really lies around the fluidity of our backline. Right now it isn’t functioning which isn’t helping newbies like Proctor settle in to their role.
So clunky.
Proctor has a lot of upside. Stick with him. A yellow card on D is not the worst offence.
What upside, exactly?
Hands, distribution and stepping are much better than Reiko. His work rate is really good. Every player makes a few mistakes. That’s the nature of sport. I think he will grow into his role.
He's demonstrated nothing that his fluffers were banging on about when clamouring for him to be the All Black centre. What he has demonstrated is how much we relied on Rieko's defence.
Which goes back to my point that perhaps the problem wasn't Rieko; it was the coaching of the backline.
Except Riekos also been just as bad in Super Rugby for years.
So your argument is "ignore All Black form, it's SR that matters for Tests"?
Huh? You said maybe Rieko is only average at internationals because of the coaching?
I responded saying he's been performing just as poorly in SR. Unless you think it's the coaches fault in SR as well?
What's the common element in the All Black and Blues gameplan? Centres running tight lines getting the ball at much the same time as the defence.
Very few players look good in those circumstances.
We're clearly not coaching the talent we have to use the skills they demonstrate in lower levels.
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Scott Barrett isn't good enough to be in the 23, yet he's the Captain.
Our forward pack is probably the best in the world, and is deciding the winners of these games, the backline is absolutely shit and is keeping the score closer than it should be.
Beauden is NOT a 10. He has a labored pass, and his first instinct is to kick the ball away for the 1/30 miracle bounce that he can then live off for the next 3 years.
Half the backline currently aren't in the top 3 in their position in the country.
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Scott Barrett isn't good enough to be in the 23, yet he's the Captain.
Our forward pack is probably the best in the world, and is deciding the winners of these games, the backline is absolutely shit and is keeping the score closer than it should be.
Beauden is NOT a 10. He has a labored pass, and his first instinct is to kick the ball away for the 1/30 miracle bounce that he can then live off for the next 3 years.
Half the backline currently aren't in the top 3 in their position in the country.
Nah don't agree with that Scott Barrett had a very good shift today.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kev said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kev said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Proctor or ALB - an underwhelming selection choice.
At least Proctor did a few good things tonight in amongst the poor things. The problem really lies around the fluidity of our backline. Right now it isn’t functioning which isn’t helping newbies like Proctor settle in to their role.
So clunky.
Proctor has a lot of upside. Stick with him. A yellow card on D is not the worst offence.
What upside, exactly?
Hands, distribution and stepping are much better than Reiko. His work rate is really good. Every player makes a few mistakes. That’s the nature of sport. I think he will grow into his role.
He's demonstrated nothing that his fluffers were banging on about when clamouring for him to be the All Black centre. What he has demonstrated is how much we relied on Rieko's defence.
Which goes back to my point that perhaps the problem wasn't Rieko; it was the coaching of the backline.
Proctor will get better, the problem is most of our backline isn’t playing well and the fact we keep kicking the ball away baffles me.
The coaching of our backs is poor. Apart from Jordan every single back out there today made far too many errors. Not good enough.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kev said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kev said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Proctor or ALB - an underwhelming selection choice.
At least Proctor did a few good things tonight in amongst the poor things. The problem really lies around the fluidity of our backline. Right now it isn’t functioning which isn’t helping newbies like Proctor settle in to their role.
So clunky.
Proctor has a lot of upside. Stick with him. A yellow card on D is not the worst offence.
What upside, exactly?
Hands, distribution and stepping are much better than Reiko. His work rate is really good. Every player makes a few mistakes. That’s the nature of sport. I think he will grow into his role.
He's demonstrated nothing that his fluffers were banging on about when clamouring for him to be the All Black centre. What he has demonstrated is how much we relied on Rieko's defence.
Which goes back to my point that perhaps the problem wasn't Rieko; it was the coaching of the backline.
Proctor will get better, the problem is most of our backline isn’t playing well and the fact we keep kicking the ball away baffles me.
The coaching of our backs is poor. Apart from Jordan every single back out there today made far too many errors. Not good enough.
It's not entirely on coaching. We simply don't have the talent in the backs - Ratima is clear second choice - Beauden is nearly 10 years past his prime - Jordie is a good player but has been clunky his entire career - Proctor looks ok but to be honest nothing special and both wingers lack speed and power
