All Blacks v Argentina I
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Finally got to finish a replay. From what i read/heard i was expecting far worse.
I thought the first half was pretty bloody good, and the last quarter to take back momentum even better. I saw some real intent with linespeed, albeit disjointed at times which might come back to bite us.
The 6 lowest numbers on the team sheet were fucking excellent. Good set piece, robust around the track. They are setting a great platform that, even if it was a bit messy, we took advantage of. That was a lot of points in the first half of an away game.
Everything went completely to shit after half time and 12 months ago we probably lose that, but Sami and Patty T add so much off the bench, and the smart decision was made to ignore the big numbers and play tight. Crushed the last of the life out of them.Happy to see the skipper justify the faith in him with a big first half. Newell played maybe his best test? How did Vaai suddenly become our most mobile and busiest loose forward?
Out the back Will Jordan is a weapon.A few brickbats if i may.
The 7 and 8 selected is not working. Kirifi puts himself about but he isn't good enough to really impact the game on either side of the ball or at the breakdown. This was not a good Savea test. Do you even have shoulders fluffybunny? One try was him trying to scrag rather than putting in a shoulder. I saw one at fucking pillar where he did the same thing on a P&G and he let the guy make metres. THe less said about that enormous hole he left in midfield the better. Yeah he pumps his legs well hard and it looks cool, but you're playing #8, get harder.I need someone, anyone, to tell me why BB is an automatic selection at 10. How many absolutely shit house kicks did he put in, often under no fucking pressure whatsoever? The backline is completely dysfunctional, so it's not that either. DMac is not prefect, but at least his passing game puts guys in holes, or gives them opportunities to get outside blokes.
The complete mess outside of him i am willing to forgive because he is serving up shit week after week.
11, 13 and 14 are redundant with what ever we are doing at the moment.
I get Christy being on the bench because we are out of halfbacks, but, even as one of his biggest fans, ALB has surely done his dash.A good win that we made much harder on ourselves than it should have been because a few favoured sons are letting the side down.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
How did Vaai suddenly become our most mobile and busiest loose forward?
Excellent post Mariner.
Just on this question, I feel it's because they've put him where he can play like he's been playing since he started. I just don't think he is bulky enough for lock. But the extra space at 6 suits him. I really don't think he's doing much different.
I'm intrigued to find out more about Parker, but think the poor guy is being set up to not meet the hyped up expectations.
I also wouldn't mind seeing what Ah Kuoi can do at 6.
Gives us four decent sized tight-loose forwards - but their in the traffic jam at 6.
Agree re Kirifi. He's not been bad, and after conceding to myself that he deserves his place I think he can only play if Ardie is not. He's nearly grabbed a couple of turnovers, and smacked into people but with little effect. These are Tests not round-robin Super games. He's the backup 7.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Who is the loose forward with the shit first clean as well?
That was Ardie.
@Mauss said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Who is the loose forward with the shit first clean as well?
That was Ardie.
I think his question may have been rhetorical...
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
How did Vaai suddenly become our most mobile and busiest loose forward?
Excellent post Mariner.
Just on this question, I feel it's because they've put him where he can play like he's been playing since he started. I just don't think he is bulky enough for lock. But the extra space at 6 suits him. I really don't think he's doing much different.
I'm intrigued to find out more about Parker, but think the poor guy is being set up to not meet the hyped up expectations.
I also wouldn't mind seeing what Ah Kuoi can do at 6.
Gives us four decent sized tight-loose forwards - but their in the traffic jam at 6.
Agree re Kirifi. He's not been bad, and after conceding to myself that he deserves his place I think he can only play if Ardie is not. He's nearly grabbed a couple of turnovers, and smacked into people but with little effect. These are Tests not round-robin Super games. He's the backup 7.
@booboo Given the paucity of options at no. 6 post-Kaino, having 4 options vying for no. 6 will be timely. Echoes of the prop crisis of 2022.
It also means people can move on from Frizell (who was good, but not great)
Now, if someone can send out the next missive to focus on flyhalves and wingers, the AB squad may be complete by WC 2027
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Clarke can be a genuine option and a star winger if he's firing on all cylinders
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If I recall correctly didn't d-mac play really well against Ireland and then that was the last game he played?
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
If I recall correctly didn't d-mac play really well against Ireland and then that was the last game he played?
Yes, and then was selected in the WR world xv at 10 for the year and made the most line break in world rugby in 2024.
Looks like BB is the 10 until Saint richie is back
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McKenzie was given a good run of starts and, while things weren’t perfect, it seemed like he was just being given a rest - or Barrett was being given a game to keep up to speed - when they first made the switch. And then it was Barrett right till the end of the year for no obvious reason at all.
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
McKenzie was given a good run of starts and, while things weren’t perfect, it seemed like he was just being given a rest - or Barrett was being given a game to keep up to speed - when they first made the switch. And then it was Barrett right till the end of the year for no obvious reason at all.
Well there is an obvious reason mate, obviously the coaches thought BB was batter? I am sure everything they do has a reason.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
McKenzie was given a good run of starts and, while things weren’t perfect, it seemed like he was just being given a rest - or Barrett was being given a game to keep up to speed - when they first made the switch. And then it was Barrett right till the end of the year for no obvious reason at all.
Well there is an obvious reason mate, obviously the coaches thought BB was batter? I am sure everything they do has a reason.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
McKenzie was given a good run of starts and, while things weren’t perfect, it seemed like he was just being given a rest - or Barrett was being given a game to keep up to speed - when they first made the switch. And then it was Barrett right till the end of the year for no obvious reason at all.
Well there is an obvious reason mate, obviously the coaches thought BB was batter? I am sure everything they do has a reason.
Clearly they think BB is better. But I would argue that they are wrong
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If you’re not good enough to start, or be given a shot to start, then you shouldn’t be in the squad.
Only exception is for young players showing future potential.
Thus, if not happy with Ratima or Christie, then Preston starts next week.
This is the All Blacks. Not a jnr or development squad.
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Interestingly, Uncle Laurie thinks Beaudy over DMac - though he doesn't really say why - other than that DMac is predictable in what he does. Which isn't what I'd have thought, but maybe if you watch him more closely than I have he is.
Laurie's got a decent maverick streak to him, though - but, he used to be worth listening to. Haven't seen him pop up for a decade.
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Interestingly, Uncle Laurie thinks Beaudy over DMac - though he doesn't really say why - other than that DMac is predictable in what he does. Which isn't what I'd have thought, but maybe if you watch him more closely than I have he is.
Laurie's got a decent maverick streak to him, though - but, he used to be worth listening to. Haven't seen him pop up for a decade.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Interestingly, Uncle Laurie thinks Beaudy over DMac - though he doesn't really say why - other than that DMac is predictable in what he does. Which isn't what I'd have thought, but maybe if you watch him more closely than I have he is.
Laurie's got a decent maverick streak to him, though - but, he used to be worth listening to. Haven't seen him pop up for a decade.
BB was WPOY in 2016/17....8 years ago...and the argument seems to be that he's somehow still more unpredictable...and that's somehow better...
Hopefully we don't hear from Laurie for another decade.
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He's 100% correct that shifting Beauden to 15 and Smith to 14 to accommodate Mo'unga when he was still a rookie was an incredibly poor decision, and I do agree that we've been unsettled at 10 ever since. His comments on DMac being more predictable with what he is going to do is interesting, the Saders did shut him down pretty easily in the final. Beauden probably is more difficult to shut down as he has more of a physical presence ball in hand and has a much more direct running style which is better suited to unlocking defenses at test level.
The big issue is the distance on our kicking game (and the chip kicks, but that's not a Beauden problem, Jordan was the first guilty player trying that on the weekend, so that's gameplan). When we have Ratima starting with Beuaden that really exacerbates the problem. Roigard helps in that regard, but our poor clearances are putting us under a lot of pressure.
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He's 100% correct that shifting Beauden to 15 and Smith to 14 to accommodate Mo'unga when he was still a rookie was an incredibly poor decision, and I do agree that we've been unsettled at 10 ever since. His comments on DMac being more predictable with what he is going to do is interesting, the Saders did shut him down pretty easily in the final. Beauden probably is more difficult to shut down as he has more of a physical presence ball in hand and has a much more direct running style which is better suited to unlocking defenses at test level.
The big issue is the distance on our kicking game (and the chip kicks, but that's not a Beauden problem, Jordan was the first guilty player trying that on the weekend, so that's gameplan). When we have Ratima starting with Beuaden that really exacerbates the problem. Roigard helps in that regard, but our poor clearances are putting us under a lot of pressure.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
His comments on DMac being more predictable with what he is going to do is interesting, the Saders did shut him down pretty easily in the final.
As did the Blues in the first week of the finals where Beauden clearly outplayed him.
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Interestingly, Uncle Laurie thinks Beaudy over DMac - though he doesn't really say why - other than that DMac is predictable in what he does. Which isn't what I'd have thought, but maybe if you watch him more closely than I have he is.
Laurie's got a decent maverick streak to him, though - but, he used to be worth listening to. Haven't seen him pop up for a decade.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Interestingly, Uncle Laurie thinks Beaudy over DMac - though he doesn't really say why - other than that DMac is predictable in what he does. Which isn't what I'd have thought, but maybe if you watch him more closely than I have he is.
Laurie's got a decent maverick streak to him, though - but, he used to be worth listening to. Haven't seen him pop up for a decade.
Funny you should post that Chris. I just watched a podcast where Victer Matfield said almost exactly same thing. Reckons he is fantastic 10 and was wasted when he was played at 15. In fact most pundits seem to be on the BB bandwagon, I have seen very few being anti. Another thing is what Matfield was saying about experienced game drivers , and how he thought the Saffas missed that and having one to put their test away on weekend.
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My personal take on dmac and I might be wrong ,
But while it’s a common theory that 10s only play well behind a dominant pack , certain types of 10s that is magnified and becomes more apparent, Carlos was like that as well .
But I wouldn’t be writing him off especially that we are putting together a potential dominant pack. -
He's 100% correct that shifting Beauden to 15 and Smith to 14 to accommodate Mo'unga when he was still a rookie was an incredibly poor decision, and I do agree that we've been unsettled at 10 ever since. His comments on DMac being more predictable with what he is going to do is interesting, the Saders did shut him down pretty easily in the final. Beauden probably is more difficult to shut down as he has more of a physical presence ball in hand and has a much more direct running style which is better suited to unlocking defenses at test level.
The big issue is the distance on our kicking game (and the chip kicks, but that's not a Beauden problem, Jordan was the first guilty player trying that on the weekend, so that's gameplan). When we have Ratima starting with Beuaden that really exacerbates the problem. Roigard helps in that regard, but our poor clearances are putting us under a lot of pressure.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
He's 100% correct that shifting Beauden to 15 and Smith to 14 to accommodate Mo'unga when he was still a rookie was an incredibly poor decision, and I do agree that we've been unsettled at 10 ever since. His comments on DMac being more predictable with what he is going to do is interesting, the Saders did shut him down pretty easily in the final. Beauden probably is more difficult to shut down as he has more of a physical presence ball in hand and has a much more direct running style which is better suited to unlocking defenses at test level.
The big issue is the distance on our kicking game (and the chip kicks, but that's not a Beauden problem, Jordan was the first guilty player trying that on the weekend, so that's gameplan). When we have Ratima starting with Beuaden that really exacerbates the problem. Roigard helps in that regard, but our poor clearances are putting us under a lot of pressure.
Interestingly, in Gregor Paul's biography of Hansen he says that the plan in 2019 was to play Beaudy at first-five and DMac at 15 to give them dual play-makers. But, when DMac got injured, to keep the dual playmakers they had to play Richie at 10 and shift Beaudy to 15. Probably, we should have just used a different gameplan - but, a part of the problem was that Hansen abandoned his whole "experience counts" mantra and all of Rieko, Crotty and Ben Smith were watching from the stands - SBW from the bench, while a rookie backline floundered. I think Hansen admitted if he had his time again he'd make different picks - Cane and Ben Smith in particular.
We were pretty settled at 10 from mid-2022 to end of 2023 when Richie took over again. He was clearly number one and good enough to nearly win a World Cup. I'm pretty disappointed that he's that he's preferred to be the six million dollar man rather than Razor's quarterback.
I agree with @Dan54. I'm sure they're not just picking Beaudy on a whim - he's giving them something DMac isn't - or isn't as much. And the Fern seems generally to be particularly harsh on BB compared with other pundits.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
He's 100% correct that shifting Beauden to 15 and Smith to 14 to accommodate Mo'unga when he was still a rookie was an incredibly poor decision, and I do agree that we've been unsettled at 10 ever since. His comments on DMac being more predictable with what he is going to do is interesting, the Saders did shut him down pretty easily in the final. Beauden probably is more difficult to shut down as he has more of a physical presence ball in hand and has a much more direct running style which is better suited to unlocking defenses at test level.
The big issue is the distance on our kicking game (and the chip kicks, but that's not a Beauden problem, Jordan was the first guilty player trying that on the weekend, so that's gameplan). When we have Ratima starting with Beuaden that really exacerbates the problem. Roigard helps in that regard, but our poor clearances are putting us under a lot of pressure.
Interestingly, in Gregor Paul's biography of Hansen he says that the plan in 2019 was to play Beaudy at first-five and DMac at 15 to give them dual play-makers. But, when DMac got injured, to keep the dual playmakers they had to play Richie at 10 and shift Beaudy to 15. Probably, we should have just used a different gameplan - but, a part of the problem was that Hansen abandoned his whole "experience counts" mantra and all of Rieko, Crotty and Ben Smith were watching from the stands - SBW from the bench, while a rookie backline floundered. I think Hansen admitted if he had his time again he'd make different picks - Cane and Ben Smith in particular.
We were pretty settled at 10 from mid-2022 to end of 2023 when Richie took over again. He was clearly number one and good enough to nearly win a World Cup. I'm pretty disappointed that he's that he's preferred to be the six million dollar man rather than Razor's quarterback.
I agree with @Dan54. I'm sure they're not just picking Beaudy on a whim - he's giving them something DMac isn't - or isn't as much. And the Fern seems generally to be particularly harsh on BB compared with other pundits.
@Chris-B I'm not sure exactly what BB is giving the coaches that DMac wasn't. The last game he started we beat Ireland away,and he was close to man of the match wasn't he? Since then he's not played 10 at all that I can recall. So BB must be an amazing trainer....
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@Chris-B I'm not sure exactly what BB is giving the coaches that DMac wasn't. The last game he started we beat Ireland away,and he was close to man of the match wasn't he? Since then he's not played 10 at all that I can recall. So BB must be an amazing trainer....
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@canefan DMac? He's played a whole season of Super rugby at 10. Sometimes not very well.
But, I kind of struggle to see Beaudy as clearly better. But, I'm prepared to be wrong!
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@canefan DMac? He's played a whole season of Super rugby at 10. Sometimes not very well.
But, I kind of struggle to see Beaudy as clearly better. But, I'm prepared to be wrong!
I was talking about AB level. In the last 12 months DMac has been outduelled by Plummer (SR 24 final), BB (SR 25 QF) and Reihana (SR 25 F). Obviously it's not all on him. But he had a good NH tour which apparently doesn't count for much
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Finally got to finish a replay. From what i read/heard i was expecting far worse.
It's always worse in real time. For a good 10mins in the second half I thought "ffs, here we go again".
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Finally got to finish a replay. From what i read/heard i was expecting far worse.
It's always worse in real time. For a good 10mins in the second half I thought "ffs, here we go again".
That we didn't was a positive for me.
Been a long 2-3 years, but we do seem to be better at digging ourselves out of mental holes
