All Blacks v Argentina I
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
He's 100% correct that shifting Beauden to 15 and Smith to 14 to accommodate Mo'unga when he was still a rookie was an incredibly poor decision, and I do agree that we've been unsettled at 10 ever since. His comments on DMac being more predictable with what he is going to do is interesting, the Saders did shut him down pretty easily in the final. Beauden probably is more difficult to shut down as he has more of a physical presence ball in hand and has a much more direct running style which is better suited to unlocking defenses at test level.
The big issue is the distance on our kicking game (and the chip kicks, but that's not a Beauden problem, Jordan was the first guilty player trying that on the weekend, so that's gameplan). When we have Ratima starting with Beuaden that really exacerbates the problem. Roigard helps in that regard, but our poor clearances are putting us under a lot of pressure.
Interestingly, in Gregor Paul's biography of Hansen he says that the plan in 2019 was to play Beaudy at first-five and DMac at 15 to give them dual play-makers. But, when DMac got injured, to keep the dual playmakers they had to play Richie at 10 and shift Beaudy to 15. Probably, we should have just used a different gameplan - but, a part of the problem was that Hansen abandoned his whole "experience counts" mantra and all of Rieko, Crotty and Ben Smith were watching from the stands - SBW from the bench, while a rookie backline floundered. I think Hansen admitted if he had his time again he'd make different picks - Cane and Ben Smith in particular.
We were pretty settled at 10 from mid-2022 to end of 2023 when Richie took over again. He was clearly number one and good enough to nearly win a World Cup. I'm pretty disappointed that he's that he's preferred to be the six million dollar man rather than Razor's quarterback.
I agree with @Dan54. I'm sure they're not just picking Beaudy on a whim - he's giving them something DMac isn't - or isn't as much. And the Fern seems generally to be particularly harsh on BB compared with other pundits.
@Chris-B I'm not sure exactly what BB is giving the coaches that DMac wasn't. The last game he started we beat Ireland away,and he was close to man of the match wasn't he? Since then he's not played 10 at all that I can recall. So BB must be an amazing trainer....
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@Chris-B I'm not sure exactly what BB is giving the coaches that DMac wasn't. The last game he started we beat Ireland away,and he was close to man of the match wasn't he? Since then he's not played 10 at all that I can recall. So BB must be an amazing trainer....
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@canefan DMac? He's played a whole season of Super rugby at 10. Sometimes not very well.
But, I kind of struggle to see Beaudy as clearly better. But, I'm prepared to be wrong!
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@canefan DMac? He's played a whole season of Super rugby at 10. Sometimes not very well.
But, I kind of struggle to see Beaudy as clearly better. But, I'm prepared to be wrong!
I was talking about AB level. In the last 12 months DMac has been outduelled by Plummer (SR 24 final), BB (SR 25 QF) and Reihana (SR 25 F). Obviously it's not all on him. But he had a good NH tour which apparently doesn't count for much
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Finally got to finish a replay. From what i read/heard i was expecting far worse.
It's always worse in real time. For a good 10mins in the second half I thought "ffs, here we go again".
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Finally got to finish a replay. From what i read/heard i was expecting far worse.
It's always worse in real time. For a good 10mins in the second half I thought "ffs, here we go again".
That we didn't was a positive for me.
Been a long 2-3 years, but we do seem to be better at digging ourselves out of mental holes
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@canefan DMac? He's played a whole season of Super rugby at 10. Sometimes not very well.
But, I kind of struggle to see Beaudy as clearly better. But, I'm prepared to be wrong!
I was talking about AB level. In the last 12 months DMac has been outduelled by Plummer (SR 24 final), BB (SR 25 QF) and Reihana (SR 25 F). Obviously it's not all on him. But he had a good NH tour which apparently doesn't count for much
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@canefan DMac? He's played a whole season of Super rugby at 10. Sometimes not very well.
But, I kind of struggle to see Beaudy as clearly better. But, I'm prepared to be wrong!
I was talking about AB level. In the last 12 months DMac has been outduelled by Plummer (SR 24 final), BB (SR 25 QF) and Reihana (SR 25 F). Obviously it's not all on him. But he had a good NH tour which apparently doesn't count for much
Annoyingly, the AB stats site has degenerated, so you can't readily find out who played in what in the past two seasons.
But, I think DMac helmed three losses and Beauden just one. Seems like BB is probably about 8/9 at present, so it's not too awful.
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10 is a major impediment for us right now, or otherwise there are other reasons for our lack backline timing
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@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@canefan DMac? He's played a whole season of Super rugby at 10. Sometimes not very well.
But, I kind of struggle to see Beaudy as clearly better. But, I'm prepared to be wrong!
I was talking about AB level. In the last 12 months DMac has been outduelled by Plummer (SR 24 final), BB (SR 25 QF) and Reihana (SR 25 F). Obviously it's not all on him. But he had a good NH tour which apparently doesn't count for much
Annoyingly, the AB stats site has degenerated, so you can't readily find out who played in what in the past two seasons.
But, I think DMac helmed three losses and Beauden just one. Seems like BB is probably about 8/9 at present, so it's not too awful.
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As a
n International Man of Mysterylevel three coach (that's not true) I truly believe the Beauden of Barretts is implementing the gameplan the coaches want. Theshitvaried kicking is to keep the defence guessing, preventing the rush and as a result giving our super talented backs the time and space to express themselves. -
@Chris-B The ABs were losing to England until BB went off with a failed HIA which meant DMac went into 1st 5 and Telea came back on the field to score the winning try.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Chris-B The ABs were losing to England until BB went off with a failed HIA which meant DMac went into 1st 5 and Telea came back on the field to score the winning try.
So you're saying pick Tele'a?
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Chris-B The ABs were losing to England until BB went off with a failed HIA which meant DMac went into 1st 5 and Telea came back on the field to score the winning try.
So you're saying pick Tele'a?
@antipodean They both saved BB's arse.
Robertson too. -
As a
n International Man of Mysterylevel three coach (that's not true) I truly believe the Beauden of Barretts is implementing the gameplan the coaches want. Theshitvaried kicking is to keep the defence guessing, preventing the rush and as a result giving our super talented backs the time and space to express themselves.@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
As a
n International Man of Mysterylevel three coach (that's not true) I truly believe the Beauden of Barretts is implementing the gameplan the coaches want. Theshitvaried kicking is to keep the defence guessing, preventing the rush and as a result giving our super talented backs the time and space to express themselves.In the first half we did have the Argies off balance a lot. But we undid the good work with our lack of precision
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
As a
n International Man of Mysterylevel three coach (that's not true) I truly believe the Beauden of Barretts is implementing the gameplan the coaches want. Theshitvaried kicking is to keep the defence guessing, preventing the rush and as a result giving our super talented backs the time and space to express themselves.In the first half we did have the Argies off balance a lot. But we undid the good work with our lack of precision
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@canefan true - if those passes went to hand we'd have cut them to shreds.
But too often they don't.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@canefan true - if those passes went to hand we'd have cut them to shreds.
But too often they don't.
Yup. And almost isn't quite good enough is it?
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@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@canefan DMac? He's played a whole season of Super rugby at 10. Sometimes not very well.
But, I kind of struggle to see Beaudy as clearly better. But, I'm prepared to be wrong!
I was talking about AB level. In the last 12 months DMac has been outduelled by Plummer (SR 24 final), BB (SR 25 QF) and Reihana (SR 25 F). Obviously it's not all on him. But he had a good NH tour which apparently doesn't count for much
Annoyingly, the AB stats site has degenerated, so you can't readily find out who played in what in the past two seasons.
But, I think DMac helmed three losses and Beauden just one. Seems like BB is probably about 8/9 at present, so it's not too awful.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@canefan DMac? He's played a whole season of Super rugby at 10. Sometimes not very well.
But, I kind of struggle to see Beaudy as clearly better. But, I'm prepared to be wrong!
I was talking about AB level. In the last 12 months DMac has been outduelled by Plummer (SR 24 final), BB (SR 25 QF) and Reihana (SR 25 F). Obviously it's not all on him. But he had a good NH tour which apparently doesn't count for much
> Annoyingly, the AB stats site has degenerated, so you can't readily find out who played in what in the past two seasons.
But, I think DMac helmed three losses and Beauden just one. Seems like BB is probably about 8/9 at present, so it's not too awful.
@Duluth runs the best site for finding out those sorts of things.
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<Days later> This might belong in a grumpy old man-live match reporting thread, but it would be nice, in future, if occasionally people mentioned the score in the live match thread. For those not near the game, the tv, other media. Reading through the thread live it felt at times like the Pumas were leading by 2 tries plus...
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@canefan DMac? He's played a whole season of Super rugby at 10. Sometimes not very well.
But, I kind of struggle to see Beaudy as clearly better. But, I'm prepared to be wrong!
I was talking about AB level. In the last 12 months DMac has been outduelled by Plummer (SR 24 final), BB (SR 25 QF) and Reihana (SR 25 F). Obviously it's not all on him. But he had a good NH tour which apparently doesn't count for much
> Annoyingly, the AB stats site has degenerated, so you can't readily find out who played in what in the past two seasons.
But, I think DMac helmed three losses and Beauden just one. Seems like BB is probably about 8/9 at present, so it's not too awful.
@Duluth runs the best site for finding out those sorts of things.
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@canefan DMac? He's played a whole season of Super rugby at 10. Sometimes not very well.
But, I kind of struggle to see Beaudy as clearly better. But, I'm prepared to be wrong!
I was talking about AB level. In the last 12 months DMac has been outduelled by Plummer (SR 24 final), BB (SR 25 QF) and Reihana (SR 25 F). Obviously it's not all on him. But he had a good NH tour which apparently doesn't count for much
> Annoyingly, the AB stats site has degenerated, so you can't readily find out who played in what in the past two seasons.
But, I think DMac helmed three losses and Beauden just one. Seems like BB is probably about 8/9 at present, so it's not too awful.
@Duluth runs the best site for finding out those sorts of things.
Not for player info
rugbydatabase.co.nz is the best for seeing what games people played
rugbyhistory.co.nz is useful for a summary of what position people played in. Although it doesn't have the latest games.. they seem to update at the end of the year
Hopefully rugbydatabase adds player positions to their search results. They have all the info they just need to expose it
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<Days later> This might belong in a grumpy old man-live match reporting thread, but it would be nice, in future, if occasionally people mentioned the score in the live match thread. For those not near the game, the tv, other media. Reading through the thread live it felt at times like the Pumas were leading by 2 tries plus...
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
<Days later> This might belong in a grumpy old man-live match reporting thread, but it would be nice, in future, if occasionally people mentioned the score in the live match thread. For those not near the game, the tv, other media. Reading through the thread live it felt at times like the Pumas were leading by 2 tries plus...
Coming to a forum near you https://www.forum.silverfern.rugby/topic/7503/volunteers-to-test-a-new-tsf-feature/15
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@canefan DMac? He's played a whole season of Super rugby at 10. Sometimes not very well.
But, I kind of struggle to see Beaudy as clearly better. But, I'm prepared to be wrong!
I was talking about AB level. In the last 12 months DMac has been outduelled by Plummer (SR 24 final), BB (SR 25 QF) and Reihana (SR 25 F). Obviously it's not all on him. But he had a good NH tour which apparently doesn't count for much
> Annoyingly, the AB stats site has degenerated, so you can't readily find out who played in what in the past two seasons.
But, I think DMac helmed three losses and Beauden just one. Seems like BB is probably about 8/9 at present, so it's not too awful.
@Duluth runs the best site for finding out those sorts of things.
Not for player info
rugbydatabase.co.nz is the best for seeing what games people played
rugbyhistory.co.nz is useful for a summary of what position people played in. Although it doesn't have the latest games.. they seem to update at the end of the year
Hopefully rugbydatabase adds player positions to their search results. They have all the info they just need to expose it
@Duluth said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@canefan DMac? He's played a whole season of Super rugby at 10. Sometimes not very well.
But, I kind of struggle to see Beaudy as clearly better. But, I'm prepared to be wrong!
I was talking about AB level. In the last 12 months DMac has been outduelled by Plummer (SR 24 final), BB (SR 25 QF) and Reihana (SR 25 F). Obviously it's not all on him. But he had a good NH tour which apparently doesn't count for much
> Annoyingly, the AB stats site has degenerated, so you can't readily find out who played in what in the past two seasons.
But, I think DMac helmed three losses and Beauden just one. Seems like BB is probably about 8/9 at present, so it's not too awful.
@Duluth runs the best site for finding out those sorts of things.
Not for player info
rugbydatabase.co.nz is the best for seeing what games people played
rugbyhistory.co.nz is useful for a summary of what position people played in. Although it doesn't have the latest games.. they seem to update at the end of the year
Hopefully rugbydatabase adds player positions to their search results. They have all the info they just need to expose it
You have team sheets and the score, so better than most! I don't bother looking elsewhere nowadays
I'll check that link out next time though.
