European Club Rugby
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@MiketheSnow With the new investment from House of Luxury LLC what is the possibility that Scarlets break away and join the English Premiership should the WRU cut the number of processional team to just the two and Llanelli not being the base for one of them?
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Slim
If there was a merging they’d want it to be Cardiff
Nobody, including the Welsh, wants or needs to go to Llanelli
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Slim
If there was a merging they’d want it to be Cardiff
Nobody, including the Welsh, wants or needs to go to Llanelli
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@MiketheSnow I would have thought three professional teams makes sense: one in Swansea, one in Cardiff, one in Newport.
@sparky said in European Club Rugby:
@MiketheSnow I would have thought three professional teams makes sense: one in Swansea, one in Cardiff, one in Newport.
Except Newport (Dragons) are the worst region with the lowest attendances
When the WRU say they’re proposing losing two teams that’s not strictly the case
We’re losing two men’s teams and replacing them with two women’s teams
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My twopeneth worth
The WRU are hoping that the consultation will deliver their preferred solution, namely two men's teams and 2 women's teams
The WRU are prepared to sacrifice two men's teams to pay for two women's teams
Theoretically the national campus idea is an excellent one
Will that mean we have one national style and game plan which is then replicated by the two remaining teams? Reddin says absolutely not.
If that's the case, will the players and national coach have more formal time with each other than they do at present to practice and perfect the national coach's vision?
Even though Reddin mentioned NZ as a model to emulate I believe they've been looking at Scotland and want to copy that model.
They've got Tandy as coach.
They're proposing two teams.
But in the 29 years there has been two Scottish regional teams, Glasgow has won the Pro12 once and the URC once. Edinburgh were runners up in the league once, and losing finalists in the European Challenge Cup in 2015.
The Scotland national team has won one 5N / 6N championship in that time - to Wales' six - and not advanced beyond the QF stage at the RWC - Wales has contested two SF.
Is this really the best model for us to aspire to?
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My twopeneth worth
The WRU are hoping that the consultation will deliver their preferred solution, namely two men's teams and 2 women's teams
The WRU are prepared to sacrifice two men's teams to pay for two women's teams
Theoretically the national campus idea is an excellent one
Will that mean we have one national style and game plan which is then replicated by the two remaining teams? Reddin says absolutely not.
If that's the case, will the players and national coach have more formal time with each other than they do at present to practice and perfect the national coach's vision?
Even though Reddin mentioned NZ as a model to emulate I believe they've been looking at Scotland and want to copy that model.
They've got Tandy as coach.
They're proposing two teams.
But in the 29 years there has been two Scottish regional teams, Glasgow has won the Pro12 once and the URC once. Edinburgh were runners up in the league once, and losing finalists in the European Challenge Cup in 2015.
The Scotland national team has won one 5N / 6N championship in that time - to Wales' six - and not advanced beyond the QF stage at the RWC - Wales has contested two SF.
Is this really the best model for us to aspire to?
@MiketheSnow I might have completely missed the point (shock horror). But men's and women's rugby thrive on completely different values and motivations.
As Wayne said; men have to play good to feel good.... women have to feel good to play good.
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Racing in France want Ardie Savea.
https://twitter.com/tightfive_rugby/status/1959161990410055715?s=46
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An excellent listen
@MiketheSnow Cheers Mike, interesting but depressing to listen to.
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Another interesting take from a consistently sensible YouTuber who's passionate about Welsh rugby
2+1 model allying with the English game.
2 teams into the Premiership, 1 in the Championship as a development team
Would mean saying bye bye to URC, which could be tough legally
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Another interesting take from a consistently sensible YouTuber who's passionate about Welsh rugby
2+1 model allying with the English game.
2 teams into the Premiership, 1 in the Championship as a development team
Would mean saying bye bye to URC, which could be tough legally
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@MiketheSnow Welsh club teams in the English league system would mirror what seems to be successful and popular in soccer. Long-term that's the best financial bet, but as you suggest it might be legally tough to get there.
@sparky said in European Club Rugby:
@MiketheSnow Welsh club teams in the English league system would mirror what seems to be successful and popular in soccer. Long-term that's the best financial bet, but as you suggest it might be legally tough to get there.
And presumably if that did come to pass, Welsh qualified players playing in the English league for an English club would be eligible to play for Wales regardless of how many caps they have
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The annual budgets for the French Top 14 teams which are all up, some significantly so.
https://twitter.com/oval_news/status/1960286384050053201?s=46
With their ticket sales, gate receipts, TV viewership, TV income, sponsorship and prize money all up, it's no surprise to see the top French clubs get wealthier and wealthier
Less financially fortunate unions and clubs can currently only look on with envy with what's going on in France and the huge financial growth of the game there.
With all that money will come power. The power to sign more of the world's best players and coaches. The power to develop their academies and grassroots so they can produce more and more world-class players.
If you follow the money, sooner or later the future of the game will be French.
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Decided to have a look at exactly where French rugby clubs get their money.
The LNR (T14 and PD2 – 30 clubs) is the vehicle of the FFR to administer the pro clubs.
The FFR itself is not in great financial shape; having made a mess of the 2023 WC and lost tens of millions (WR did ok tho).% average of LNR club revenues
“Partnerships” 44%
Seems to be very grey, but it is huge; sponsorships and benefactors.
Larger than the match day and TV revenue combined; and those revenue streams are large compared to other domestic comps!
Be nice to know the proportions between benefactors and sponsors.
Sometimes benefactor can be sponsor; and a benefactor takes out a lot of losses.
Be hard for any other domestic rugby comp to replicate this part of the business model, and it’s the biggest part.LNR 20%
- TV; new deal €130m per year from 2027 to 2032. No other domestic rugby comp comes remotely close to this deal (except the NRL—new deal soon).
- Euro competitions; European comps are a loss for clubs (except if you win it). Most clubs look at it as a marketing expense. It’s compensation type revenue. No money here.
- French national team players club indemnity; this is the FFR/LNR national team deal and seems to make national/club relationship reasonably seamless (at least for French players). A bit of an incentive for clubs to have players selected for the national team. Possibly why the French national squad is large.
Match day 15%
Other 21%―merchandise, transfer fees etc.
A comparison with the Brisbane Broncos, an NRL financial powerhouse ($81.5m revenue 2024):
Matchday 35%
NRL 24%
Sponsorship 19%
Reverse model to T14; matchday and TV revenue three times “partnerships.”Off topic
Incredible to me, but apparently the French national rugby football team significantly outrates the audience for the 2 time world champion French national soccer football team! -
Jordan Petaia has signed with French Top 14 club Perpignan.
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My twopeneth worth
The WRU are hoping that the consultation will deliver their preferred solution, namely two men's teams and 2 women's teams
The WRU are prepared to sacrifice two men's teams to pay for two women's teams
Theoretically the national campus idea is an excellent one
Will that mean we have one national style and game plan which is then replicated by the two remaining teams? Reddin says absolutely not.
If that's the case, will the players and national coach have more formal time with each other than they do at present to practice and perfect the national coach's vision?
Even though Reddin mentioned NZ as a model to emulate I believe they've been looking at Scotland and want to copy that model.
They've got Tandy as coach.
They're proposing two teams.
But in the 29 years there has been two Scottish regional teams, Glasgow has won the Pro12 once and the URC once. Edinburgh were runners up in the league once, and losing finalists in the European Challenge Cup in 2015.
The Scotland national team has won one 5N / 6N championship in that time - to Wales' six - and not advanced beyond the QF stage at the RWC - Wales has contested two SF.
Is this really the best model for us to aspire to?
@MiketheSnow said in European Club Rugby:
The WRU are prepared to sacrifice two men's teams to pay for two women's teams
How is that financially viable?
