All Blacks v Argentina II
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@voodoo therein lies the problem, how we have used Ioane for the past 4 or 5 years since his move to centre as well.
Like the frustrations we express over BB's kicking, its clear that they are ticking whatever boxes the coaches want cos they keep fucking selecting them, so the problem lies in the game plan that has not been based around utilising one of the quickest players around, instead using him like a limited player we let go.
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@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
It used to be said that players got better and improved in the All Blacks environment.
But in recent years we've seen players get worse and even sometimes wilt in the All Blacks.
It's striking to hear players say they enjoy playing for their super franchises more than the ABs.
It suggests that something is very rotten indeed in the national team set-up.
Dont forget Rieko essentially got dropped for the 2019 RWC only playing one pool game against Canada and scoring 1 try.
That was two years after his debut and when he still had "legs".
No he was carrying an injury, sucks as he was in his prime and the world's best 11 leading up to that cup and would have made a huge difference. Instead we had to endure Bridge.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
If Ioane's problems are all due to Jordie Barrett, then how come:
a) he was actually good at the last WC;
b) he has hardly been carving it up for the Blues, with Jordie Barrett at times being literally on the other side of the world.@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
If Ioane's problems are all due to Jordie Barrett, then how come:
a) he was actually good at the last WC;
b) he has hardly been carving it up for the Blues, with Jordie Barrett at times being literally on the other side of the world.We will have the same problems if we keep picking the likes of Mo'unga, Barrett, and Mckenzie. They all crab sideways and its rubbish ball for everyone outside of them. Their games are simply not good for test rugby backlines. They create for themselves more than others.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
An ex player says something negative about a player and he gets the old fashioned 'fuck off'. Do we want honesty or not?
Yes, we do but the just another example of a media guy not wanting to piss off his Crusaders mates Reece and Jordan. So, he singles out the Aucklander and the guy who waltzed into his team as a 19-year old and probably to some extent changed the balance and approach to the back 3 that resulted in Dagg not having a place in the team anymore.
So, no problem with Dagg's comments per se, but he's got to grow a pair and call out his mates too.
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@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
If Ioane's problems are all due to Jordie Barrett, then how come:
a) he was actually good at the last WC;
b) he has hardly been carving it up for the Blues, with Jordie Barrett at times being literally on the other side of the world.@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
If Ioane's problems are all due to Jordie Barrett, then how come:
a) he was actually good at the last WC;
b) he has hardly been carving it up for the Blues, with Jordie Barrett at times being literally on the other side of the world.We will have the same problems if we keep picking the likes of Mo'unga, Barrett, and Mckenzie. They all crab sideways and its rubbish ball for everyone outside of them. Their games are simply not good for test rugby backlines. They create for themselves more than others.
Clearly the coaches want to play that way. But I can't help but wonder how Plummer would have gone. A guy who did the fundamentals well, and could pass to his outsides early to give them space to move would have been interesting
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@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
If Ioane's problems are all due to Jordie Barrett, then how come:
a) he was actually good at the last WC;
b) he has hardly been carving it up for the Blues, with Jordie Barrett at times being literally on the other side of the world.@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
If Ioane's problems are all due to Jordie Barrett, then how come:
a) he was actually good at the last WC;
b) he has hardly been carving it up for the Blues, with Jordie Barrett at times being literally on the other side of the world.We will have the same problems if we keep picking the likes of Mo'unga, Barrett, and Mckenzie. They all crab sideways and its rubbish ball for everyone outside of them. Their games are simply not good for test rugby backlines. They create for themselves more than others.
What ?
He’s single handedly bringing the World Cup back to NZ last I heard
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@MN5 said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
If Ioane's problems are all due to Jordie Barrett, then how come:
a) he was actually good at the last WC;
b) he has hardly been carving it up for the Blues, with Jordie Barrett at times being literally on the other side of the world.@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
If Ioane's problems are all due to Jordie Barrett, then how come:
a) he was actually good at the last WC;
b) he has hardly been carving it up for the Blues, with Jordie Barrett at times being literally on the other side of the world.We will have the same problems if we keep picking the likes of Mo'unga, Barrett, and Mckenzie. They all crab sideways and its rubbish ball for everyone outside of them. Their games are simply not good for test rugby backlines. They create for themselves more than others.
What ?
He’s single handedly bringing the World Cup back to NZ last I heard
Razor be like
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It feels like every year or so there is a different whipping boy in the ABs , probably more so on social media than on here , and all the sheep pile on and repeat exactly the same narrative .
The part I do find amusing with reiko at centre , getting rid of him and replacing him with proctor was going to solve all the problems, and I’ve got nothing against proctor , except this time they got their wish and it didn’t .
More recent whipping boys before reiko, cane at 7 , ardie should be 7 and captain .
Beaudie when he was 15 , it should be shaun Stevenson .
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
It feels like every year or so there is a different whipping boy in the ABs , probably more so on social media than on here , and all the sheep pile on and repeat exactly the same narrative .
The part I do find amusing with reiko at centre , getting rid of him and replacing him with proctor was going to solve all the problems, and I’ve got nothing against proctor , except this time they got their wish and it didn’t .
More recent whipping boys before reiko, cane at 7 , ardie should be 7 and captain .
Beaudie when he was 15 , it should be shaun Stevenson .
Can anyone who watches lots of Super Rugby ( and isn’t @Canes4life, I’d like a more balanced view
) tell me if Proctor is really the goods ? I’ve gotta say he’s been found wanting so far in the black jersey. -
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
It feels like every year or so there is a different whipping boy in the ABs , probably more so on social media than on here , and all the sheep pile on and repeat exactly the same narrative .
The part I do find amusing with reiko at centre , getting rid of him and replacing him with proctor was going to solve all the problems, and I’ve got nothing against proctor , except this time they got their wish and it didn’t .
More recent whipping boys before reiko, cane at 7 , ardie should be 7 and captain .
Beaudie when he was 15 , it should be shaun Stevenson .
Can anyone who watches lots of Super Rugby ( and isn’t @Canes4life, I’d like a more balanced view
) tell me if Proctor is really the goods ? I’ve gotta say he’s been found wanting so far in the black jersey.He generally been excellent for the Canes. Both on attack and defence, a real leader on the team. He's struggling a bit at the moment, not sure how much is about him and how much is about our pattern
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@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
If Ioane's problems are all due to Jordie Barrett, then how come:
a) he was actually good at the last WC;
b) he has hardly been carving it up for the Blues, with Jordie Barrett at times being literally on the other side of the world.@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
If Ioane's problems are all due to Jordie Barrett, then how come:
a) he was actually good at the last WC;
b) he has hardly been carving it up for the Blues, with Jordie Barrett at times being literally on the other side of the world.We will have the same problems if we keep picking the likes of Mo'unga, Barrett, and Mckenzie. They all crab sideways and its rubbish ball for everyone outside of them. Their games are simply not good for test rugby backlines. They create for themselves more than others.
These guys are not the same player.
Beauden is a fullback playing 10, he can't really pass flat at the line, and he does not make space for others. He does see space for himself, but too many poor/inaccurate kicking options. Defended well last week.
Mo'unga hides out the back until he spies a mismatch, usually for himself - using his pace and step. Doesn't really play in the line. Lacks a bit of distance on his kicking.
McKenzie should be the guy. He kicks long and reliably for the Chiefs. He does play in the line, and passes flat to put people in gaps. The headless chook running sideways reputation was once well-deserved, but it really isn't now. Sure, he still does that occasionally, but I think it is mostly people's preconceptions that blow each of those occasions up into a 'faaark he always does that' reaction, when that isn't really true anymore. His downside to me is just his size, he will get bumped off sometimes. -
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
It feels like every year or so there is a different whipping boy in the ABs , probably more so on social media than on here , and all the sheep pile on and repeat exactly the same narrative .
The part I do find amusing with reiko at centre , getting rid of him and replacing him with proctor was going to solve all the problems, and I’ve got nothing against proctor , except this time they got their wish and it didn’t .
More recent whipping boys before reiko, cane at 7 , ardie should be 7 and captain .
Beaudie when he was 15 , it should be shaun Stevenson .
The whipping boys always seem to play for the same sides too.
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@MN5 took a long time in SR to hit his straps. Won't get that luxury in the ABs, but the talk of him failing to deliver is silly. It's clear it's not that easy to look the goods at centre (especially in the ABs) and he's what, halfway through his first "proper" season?
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@MN5 took a long time in SR to hit his straps. Won't get that luxury in the ABs, but the talk of him failing to deliver is silly. It's clear it's not that easy to look the goods at centre (especially in the ABs) and he's what, halfway through his first "proper" season?
Not easy when the guys around him keeping stuffing up and hanging him out to dry
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@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
It feels like every year or so there is a different whipping boy in the ABs , probably more so on social media than on here , and all the sheep pile on and repeat exactly the same narrative .
The part I do find amusing with reiko at centre , getting rid of him and replacing him with proctor was going to solve all the problems, and I’ve got nothing against proctor , except this time they got their wish and it didn’t .
More recent whipping boys before reiko, cane at 7 , ardie should be 7 and captain .
Beaudie when he was 15 , it should be shaun Stevenson .
Can anyone who watches lots of Super Rugby ( and isn’t @Canes4life, I’d like a more balanced view
) tell me if Proctor is really the goods ? I’ve gotta say he’s been found wanting so far in the black jersey.He generally been excellent for the Canes. Both on attack and defence, a real leader on the team. He's struggling a bit at the moment, not sure how much is about him and how much is about our pattern
It’s also about how international teams are defending now. Centres across a number of teams are having less impact on games offensively because most teams are deploying rush defence systems more than they have before.
I won’t go into detail because @MN5 will get his knickers in a twist if I even mention Proctor but the Aotearoa Rugby Pod sum it up nicely below and it makes plenty of sense.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@MN5 took a long time in SR to hit his straps. Won't get that luxury in the ABs, but the talk of him failing to deliver is silly. It's clear it's not that easy to look the goods at centre (especially in the ABs) and he's what, halfway through his first "proper" season?
It is very noticeable that Huw Jones (possible best 13 in World rugby this year) always plays much better on attack when Fin Russell is at 10.
It would be VERY enlightening to see how Proctor went outside DMac and Tupaea.
