All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Rancid-Schnitzel cane/savea/todd have won one lineout between them so far this tournament. pocock's in no way a well-rounded player, but if you have our locks, read and kaino, then 7 doesn't need to be a lineout option. this is kinda where my opinion differs - cost vs benefit - would the costs really effect us that much? we've got no shortage of ball runners either, particularly once the bench gets involved.
Worth noting that Pocock has been playing at 8 as part of poopah so should be compared to lineout takes by Read. But that points more to the impact of playing him and Hoopah together.
As Rancid said I would be interested on the overall team turnover stats to see if he is making a difference to the overall stats or whether he is just getting all of them.
IMO his work with the ball is a serious weakness not just 'average'. Owen Franks has better ball skills FFS. That is a serious black mark.
@pukunui said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Rancid-Schnitzel cane/savea/todd have won one lineout between them so far this tournament. pocock's in no way a well-rounded player, but if you have our locks, read and kaino, then 7 doesn't need to be a lineout option. this is kinda where my opinion differs - cost vs benefit - would the costs really effect us that much? we've got no shortage of ball runners either, particularly once the bench gets involved.
Worth noting that Pocock has been playing at 8 as part of poopah so should be compared to lineout takes by Read.
not at all, different teams use different guys to jump depending on their strengths, and the original question was simply which aussies in an anzac squad.
i don't think it is particularly controversial to say that (probably) the aussies best player over the last 5 years or so would make that squad ahead of ardie savea who has started 2 tests, and matt todd who will start his 2nd this weekend. i'm pretty sure that the rest of the rugby world outside of nz would lean that way too.
i can't help but think that it's similar to the way people here disregard/slag o'driscoll, which also disappoints me. these blokes can play, and there's no harm in acknowledging that. -
Would seem very tough if, subject to reasonable performance on Saturday, Todd wasn't on EOYT. In which case the question is whether Dixon is also a lock or if Luatua or another (Ioane, etc.) will get a shot.
@pakman said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Would seem very tough if, subject to reasonable performance on Saturday, Todd wasn't on EOYT. In which case the question is whether Dixon is also a lock or if Luatua or another (Ioane, etc.) will get a shot.
Not really. It's the nature of a busy test season that players get the call up temporarily. Whilst nothing is guaranteed, I don't think Todd would be under any illusion that Cane is the first choice openside and when fit he is in direct competition with him.
I think it just confirms what the coaches have been saying about Ardie that he has huge upside but isn't quite there as a starter given his size and endurance levels right now. Whereas right now Todd is at that level where they want a starting 7.
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Picking Todd to start if Cane can play? Interesting.
Hopefully its the good J Savea this week, not the disinterested one. He can't have that many chances left.
@dingo said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Hopefully its the good J Savea this week, not the disinterested one. He can't have that many chances left.
Again with this? I don't know what the guy needs to do anymore. He's topping stats in heaps of areas, doing great work, I'd say he's meeting targets and then some. He's not there on a chance, he's there on performance.
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correct they can play, but if I supported a super rugby team and they could choose between Cane, Savea or Pocock, I'd take them in that order...
BOD was a very very good player, but he was a tool!
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
correct they can play, but if I supported a super rugby team and they could choose between Cane, Savea or Pocock, I'd take them in that order...
BOD was a very very good player, but he was a tool!
Is, is a tool.
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@dingo said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Hopefully its the good J Savea this week, not the disinterested one. He can't have that many chances left.
Again with this? I don't know what the guy needs to do anymore. He's topping stats in heaps of areas, doing great work, I'd say he's meeting targets and then some. He's not there on a chance, he's there on performance.
@Bones said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@dingo said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Hopefully its the good J Savea this week, not the disinterested one. He can't have that many chances left.
Again with this? I don't know what the guy needs to do anymore. He's topping stats in heaps of areas, doing great work, I'd say he's meeting targets and then some. He's not there on a chance, he's there on performance.
You beat me to it. In @dingo's defense he's a Canes supporter so probably hasn't forgiven him for dropping the final in 2015 and then not contributing to our 2016 success. But in Black he has been super effective all year.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Would seem very tough if, subject to reasonable performance on Saturday, Todd wasn't on EOYT. In which case the question is whether Dixon is also a lock or if Luatua or another (Ioane, etc.) will get a shot.
Not really. It's the nature of a busy test season that players get the call up temporarily. Whilst nothing is guaranteed, I don't think Todd would be under any illusion that Cane is the first choice openside and when fit he is in direct competition with him.
I think it just confirms what the coaches have been saying about Ardie that he has huge upside but isn't quite there as a starter given his size and endurance levels right now. Whereas right now Todd is at that level where they want a starting 7.
@ACT-Crusader Agreed. Ardie is not seen as a starter (yet) against Tier 1 nations, after they had a look at him starting in the home Boks test.
Todd's chances of going on the EOYT to me turn on whether the selectors think Ireland (2x) and France are true Tier 1 nations (they certainly are Tier 1 in physicality) in which case Savea is probably not suited to start. If so, do they think Cane is ready to start all three games (having had eight weeks off test rugby by then the answer might well be yes). If not, then Todd probably goes to start one of those games.
If Todd doesn't go, you probably have Ardie starting against Italy with Dixon covering 7 (if he's not already starting that game at 6).
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@ACT-Crusader Agreed. Ardie is not seen as a starter (yet) against Tier 1 nations, after they had a look at him starting in the home Boks test.
Todd's chances of going on the EOYT to me turn on whether the selectors think Ireland (2x) and France are true Tier 1 nations (they certainly are Tier 1 in physicality) in which case Savea is probably not suited to start. If so, do they think Cane is ready to start all three games (having had eight weeks off test rugby by then the answer might well be yes). If not, then Todd probably goes to start one of those games.
If Todd doesn't go, you probably have Ardie starting against Italy with Dixon covering 7 (if he's not already starting that game at 6).
@Tregaskis I think it will depend on what they see with Dixon. I reckon he's one of these hybrid loosies that could cover all 3 back row positions like Masoe. And against some of the NH teams he could be an emergency 7.
They'll no doubt carry Cane, he needs to keep developing and getting test experience under him in the lead up to next years Lions tour.
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@dingo said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Hopefully its the good J Savea this week, not the disinterested one. He can't have that many chances left.
Again with this? I don't know what the guy needs to do anymore. He's topping stats in heaps of areas, doing great work, I'd say he's meeting targets and then some. He's not there on a chance, he's there on performance.
@Bones I go back on forth on Julian Savea. To me he fails the "eye" test of a winger because he doesn't make the most of opportunities he's given. He still scores tries, but very few any more are where he actually turns a half chance into a try - which is where many people perceive that Naholo's advantage lies (not that we've seen a great deal of it yet). Savea is still quite effective a gaining metres after contact.
On the other hand, Dagg is scoring tries the same way, by finishing. Our wingers are scoring tries as finishers, usually simply due to numbers and the work of the other 14. We are no longer reliant on a broken tackle for a try as we were in the Lomu-Cullen era, we simply work the ball around and our superior off loading, handling, option taking and eye for space gets us tries.
To me here's a good chance Julian Savea's there because Naholo hasn't stayed fit enough to have an extended run at the jersey, and because NMS is injured. You might even say Rieko Ioane or some unknown is a threat to Savea's longevity. Next year is probably a better indication of whether he'll be a long term All Black (it's a ruthless game for wingers) as NMS returns and Naholo develops or busts.
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I hear that instead of naming a 24, Qantas Land Rover Wallabies coach Michael Cheika will later today reveal a team of 40 to face the New Zealand haka. Seventeen players will be omitted thereafter and required to carry green and gold Qantas Land Rover Wallaby tracksuits off the field. One insider said the this will be a historic moment for those 40 players to stand out on Eden Park. However the insider would not be drawn into questions about whether or not the 17 would participate in tackle bag practice after the haka.
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For those in the USA:
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@Frank said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Julian Savea's charmed life continues.
I don't see how it's a charmed life when you look at his stats.
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Jules will go alright but I just thought Naholo might've held a little bit more pace and mystery.
All good though. I expect the sissies to make this a hard fought game
@Siam said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Jules will go alright but I just thought Naholo might've held a little bit more pace and mystery.
All good though. I expect the sissies to make this a hard fought game
Totally unintentional, spellchecker thingee turned Aussie into that...bless it
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@Bones I go back on forth on Julian Savea. To me he fails the "eye" test of a winger because he doesn't make the most of opportunities he's given. He still scores tries, but very few any more are where he actually turns a half chance into a try - which is where many people perceive that Naholo's advantage lies (not that we've seen a great deal of it yet). Savea is still quite effective a gaining metres after contact.
On the other hand, Dagg is scoring tries the same way, by finishing. Our wingers are scoring tries as finishers, usually simply due to numbers and the work of the other 14. We are no longer reliant on a broken tackle for a try as we were in the Lomu-Cullen era, we simply work the ball around and our superior off loading, handling, option taking and eye for space gets us tries.
To me here's a good chance Julian Savea's there because Naholo hasn't stayed fit enough to have an extended run at the jersey, and because NMS is injured. You might even say Rieko Ioane or some unknown is a threat to Savea's longevity. Next year is probably a better indication of whether he'll be a long term All Black (it's a ruthless game for wingers) as NMS returns and Naholo develops or busts.
@Tregaskis I've already posted his stats twice. He's doing a lot more than just making the odd few metres in contact.
I agree he doesn't look quite like the confident blockbuster we expect, but for some reason people are judging him on some weird level where everything is ignored unless he makes a mistake.
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@Tregaskis I've already posted his stats twice. He's doing a lot more than just making the odd few metres in contact.
I agree he doesn't look quite like the confident blockbuster we expect, but for some reason people are judging him on some weird level where everything is ignored unless he makes a mistake.
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@Tregaskis I've already posted his stats twice. He's doing a lot more than just making the odd few metres in contact.
I agree he doesn't look quite like the confident blockbuster we expect, but for some reason people are judging him on some weird level where everything is ignored unless he makes a mistake.
@Bones said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Tregaskis I've already posted his stats twice. He's doing a lot more than just making the odd few metres in contact.
I agree he doesn't look quite like the confident blockbuster we expect, but for some reason people are judging him on some weird level where everything is ignored unless he makes a mistake.
He's become exactly what Joe Rokokoko became. How the fuck does Bryan Habana stay at the top so long ? I guess doing nothing but hunt for intercepts isn't too taxing on the body long term.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Tregaskis I've already posted his stats twice. He's doing a lot more than just making the odd few metres in contact.
I agree he doesn't look quite like the confident blockbuster we expect, but for some reason people are judging him on some weird level where everything is ignored unless he makes a mistake.
He's become exactly what Joe Rokokoko became. How the fuck does Bryan Habana stay at the top so long ? I guess doing nothing but hunt for intercepts isn't too taxing on the body long term.
