Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?
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@restofit Well, not really.
We've actually got a pretty good team if everyone is fit and firing.
The coaches need to get their shit together and the players need to get on the same page....
Williams, Taylor, Lomax
Vai'i, Barrett
Parker, Savea, Sititi
Roigard, Mo'unga
Barrett, Ioane
Clarke, Narawa, JordanDe Groot, Big Sami, Newell, Holland, Blackadder
Ratima, DMac, Fainga'anukuAnd/or plenty of others.
We're far from fucked!
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We'll be on the road to recovery once the coaches have the balls to put Ardie on the bench.
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@restofit Not at all. Geez they were in that last game with 15m to go. No highly influential Roigard or Taylor and several forwards hampered by injury or overwork.
Where is all the Love for starting 10 stuff coming from? Do people want to see him suffer in a no win situation this early in his career?
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@ARHS said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
Do people want to see him suffer in a no win situation this early in his career?
No, but Love decided to play for the Hurricanes and wouldn't listen to reason.
[Couldn't resist, I'll go get that coat].
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@ARHS said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
Where is all the Love for starting 10 stuff coming from? Do people want to see him suffer in a no win situation this early in his career?
What do you mean suffer?
He’s in the squad and has been selected as a 10/15. Plus we’ve had a gut full of BB and DMac running the cutter. No time like the present.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
No time like the present.
It'd be good if Robertson could be bold, but I think that ship sailed last year and disappeared over the horizon with the BA & Caketin losses. He needs to win at any cost now as his survival depends on it - and that means taking minimal risks.
Be delighted to be proved wrong but think Coach Jesus in a real bind of his own making.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
@ARHS said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
Where is all the Love for starting 10 stuff coming from? Do people want to see him suffer in a no win situation this early in his career?
What do you mean suffer?
He’s in the squad and has been selected as a 10/15. Plus we’ve had a gut full of BB and DMac running the cutter. No time like the present.
I'm with you. There's no point in him being picked in the squad if they are too afraid to give him meaningful minutes and/or start him.
Its as good as saying they don't believe in him.
And to your second point, yup I don't know if I can stomach another weekend of watching BB kick.the ball away aimlessly 15+ times.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
@ARHS said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
Where is all the Love for starting 10 stuff coming from? Do people want to see him suffer in a no win situation this early in his career?
What do you mean suffer?
He’s in the squad and has been selected as a 10/15.
Razor has said they see him as a 15.
He's had fuck all time at SR in such a critical position - it would be cannon fodder material throwing him in at 10 at Eden Park.
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@antipodean said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
@ACT-Crusader said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
@ARHS said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
Where is all the Love for starting 10 stuff coming from? Do people want to see him suffer in a no win situation this early in his career?
What do you mean suffer?
He’s in the squad and has been selected as a 10/15.
Razor has said they see him as a 15.
He's had fuck all time at SR in such a critical position - it would be cannon fodder material throwing him in at 10 at Eden Park.
Is love fast enough to be a test level 15?
Its not an apples to oranges comparison admittedly but Schmidt started JOC at Ellis Park who played far fewer minutes than Love this past SR season. And JOC was shit for the first 20 mins of that match but eventually got into the game. Again, I know it's not a like for like comparison given JOC experience.
Constant fear of failure and the worst case scenario is creating a selection mindset that is too conservative imo.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
@ACT-Crusader said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
No time like the present.
It'd be good if Robertson could be bold, but I think that ship sailed last year and disappeared over the horizon with the BA & Caketin losses. He needs to win at any cost now as his survival depends on it - and that means taking minimal risks.
Be delighted to be proved wrong but think Coach Jesus in a real bind of his own making.
I think it’s debatable whether any first year AB coach can be bold given they are likely dealing with post RWC departures OS, retirements. Those things are probably the main things to deal to try and solidify a squad. There are new players naturally but there are also contracted players, vets in positions where the cupboard is bare or up and comers knocking on the door that are selected on potential more than anything concrete. These aren’t excuses it’s just the reality of things as to why some players were selected last year.
The way I see it now, I don’t think playing Love is any more a risk than selecting DMac or Barrett. That’s a hard lesson given the results thus far.
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I would be interested to find out how much contracts play a part in selections. In other words, are the coaches free to select whoever they want or are there other forces in play?
In Super rugby for example, I was surprised to learn that someone who was brought in for injury cover has to make way when the original player is available again, no matter how well they played.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
@ACT-Crusader said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
No time like the present.
It'd be good if Robertson could be bold, but I think that ship sailed last year and disappeared over the horizon with the BA & Caketin losses. He needs to win at any cost now as his survival depends on it - and that means taking minimal risks.
Be delighted to be proved wrong but think Coach Jesus in a real bind of his own making.
I think it’s debatable whether any first year AB coach can be bold given they are likely dealing with post RWC departures OS, retirements. Those things are probably the main things to deal to try and solidify a squad. There are new players naturally but there are also contracted players, vets in positions where the cupboard is bare or up and comers knocking on the door that are selected on potential more than anything concrete. These aren’t excuses it’s just the reality of things as to why some players were selected last year.
The way I see it now, I don’t think playing Love is any more a risk than selecting DMac or Barrett. That’s a hard lesson given the results thus far.
He was uber-conservative in his 1st year when he should have been bolder - he's said that himself. He knew what he was inheriting yet spent an inordinate amount of time trying to entice Mo'unga and Whitelock back rather than looking forward and working with what he had (inc Love).
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@Crazy-Horse said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
In Super rugby for example, I was surprised to learn that someone who was brought in for injury cover has to make way when the original player is available again, no matter how well they played.
I had no idea. That's a pretty insane rule.
So, these contracts handcuff coaches to an extent.
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@nonpartizan said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
@Crazy-Horse said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
In Super rugby for example, I was surprised to learn that someone who was brought in for injury cover has to make way when the original player is available again, no matter how well they played.
I had no idea. That's a pretty insane rule.
So, these contracts handcuff coaches to an extent.
That's my understanding, happy to be proven wrong. From memory there was an article about a Crusader who came in as injury cover and played well, but had to step aside later in the season. Hopefully someone on here has some inside knowledge on how the AB contracts work, and what sort of clauses may be in play.
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@antipodean said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
We'll be on the road to recovery once the coaches have the balls to put Ardie on the bench.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
@ARHS said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
Where is all the Love for starting 10 stuff coming from? Do people want to see him suffer in a no win situation this early in his career?
What do you mean suffer?
He’s in the squad and has been selected as a 10/15. Plus we’ve had a gut full of BB and DMac running the cutter. No time like the present.
He is 2 years older than Sua'ali'.
If you are good enough you are old enough.
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I could write a book about this!
There are about 7 grades of NZ pro rugby contract
1st Full
2nd Draft
3rd Interim
4th Development
5th Sevens
6th Provincial
7th Provincial DevelopmentThat covers all professional rugby players in NZ.
All are NZRU employees and must be available for national teams.
About 700 players.As I understand it . . . .
There are probably about 150 full contracts out there; 30 for each Super team and maybe a couple of outliers (Savea for example). Plus the Black Ferns.
A full contract is divided into two components, the NZ component and the Super component.
Max Super component is 195G, min 75.A draft contract is for players drafted in for a single competition; currently there are 6 draft players per Super team.
So not many out there on draft contracts.An interim contract covers all players brought in temporarily.
The player you are talking about would have been on one of these contracts.
Dropping him out of the squad would probably be a budgetary/CEA consideration. The original player having to be on the list if he was now fit and available. Not being able to flick a player on a draft/full contract.Development contracts seem to be for young players that NZR basically just wants to have stick around. To stop them going overseas I’m guessing. PU’s doing the same with their Dev contracts. Probably not many of these.
Sevens contracts; about 40 of them; 20 boys, 20 girls.
Provincial contracts; a multitude of these.
Each PU must have a minimum of 26 of these (plus AB's)
The interesting thing here is that while these contracts are separate to NZ contracts, all NZ contracted players must also have a Provincial contract. So those on NZ contracts actually have 2 contracts.NZR would have to be the largest single employer of rugby players in the world.
I don’t think it operates like this anywhere else in the rugby world.
Good luck to whoever keeps on top of this at NZR.Made a few assumptions, but off the top of my head; that's sort of how I understand it.
