All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I

[Canes4life]

@restofit said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

Is Lakai selection more of a reaction to our implosion in the final 20 when the bench guys came on or has he just not been 100% fit until now?

I just don't understand why Kirifi was getting picked over him for so long when Lakai's ceiling is higher, he's 22 vs Kirifi 28 and he's 110kg vs Kirifi 103kg.

I’ve been saying this since Lakai became available. He’s just so much more suited to test rugby.

[canefan]

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris mate did you see LF defense stats etc in club rugby in France.. He was worst centre over the season in top 14, by quite a bit. The couple of games I saw him play, he made a few breaks and looked great on attack but abysmal on defense, in that he seemed to not even attempt tackles at time. Reckon JAS would have fun running in his channel

Suaali’i is very poor defensively and could have kittens trying to defend LF.
Procter adds nothing on attack or defence.

Defence optional midfields?

[brodean]

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
Those stats also show Ennor is the best defensive centre by a long way.

I think he's a very good defender but its not really clear that he's the best. Both Ennor and ALB didn't make a lot of tackles over the season.

In terms of completed tackles per 80 minutes Ennor is ranked 18 out of 23.

[Canes4life]

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris mate did you see LF defense stats etc in club rugby in France.. He was worst centre over the season in top 14, by quite a bit. The couple of games I saw him play, he made a few breaks and looked great on attack but abysmal on defense, in that he seemed to not even attempt tackles at time. Reckon JAS would have fun running in his channel

Suaali’i is very poor defensively and could have kittens trying to defend LF.
Procter adds nothing on attack or defence.

Yep, but LF is poor on defense and so would be doing same surely. Games I saw him play weren't so much he couldn't tackle, but more he seemed not to attempt them at times. he may of been confused with defsive set up team used or something, and hope they working on it'

Let’s see how Procter handles Suaali’i it maybe carnage.
Maybe it was miss communication between LF and French speaking players around him with Toulon.

Saying Proctor has nothing on attack or defence is garbage. We know what he’s capable of because we’ve seen it for so long. The game plan is bullshit and it’s completely fucked his confidence, because he’s been asked to do what he wasn’t picked for i.e spending most of his game being a dummy runner, cleaning rucks, and chasing kicks. All energy swooning shit.

Maybe let’s give Proctor some ball to play with, you know instead of kicking the ball away at 9/10 or crashing the ball up at 12 in almost every play that we do. I’d like the ABs to play with width, they looked so good when they did that in the first 15 mins or so of the last test.

In the first 15 mins Proctor had three solid touches, one underneath his own sticks to put Carter away when Beauden decided to run it. He’s certainly capable, everyone just needs to do their fking job to a high standard, instead of looking like a bunch of clowns who don’t know what the game plan is.

[brodean]

@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@brodean well my eye test didnt see him anywhere near as effective as last year, guess I was wrong.

Midfield ( Leicesters stats from France are considered ). Stats of 23 midfielders this year.

Dominant Carry % (desc)
59.3 AJ Lam
56.8 Sam Gilbert
53.9 Tanielu Tele'a
53.3 Leicester Fainga'anuku
51.7 Bailyn Sullivan
48.0 Peter Umaga-Jensen

Gainline %
80.0 AJ Lam
76.7 Xavi Taele
75.7 Riley Higgins
75.0 Julian Savea
67.8 Sam Gilbert
64.2 Quinn Tupaea

Carries Committing 2+ Tacklers
82.1% Julian Savea
75.3% AJ Lam
71.6% Timoci Tavatavanawai
70.6% Levi Aumua
67.0% Quinn Tupaea
65.0% Leicester Fainga'anuku

Tackle Evasion %
43.2 Billy Proctor
37.7 Timoci Tavatavanawai
34.3 AJ Lam
32.2 Leicester Fainga'anuku
31.2 Peter Umaga-Jensen
30.5 David Havili

Tackle Success
93.3% Anton Lienert-Brown
90.0% Braydon Ennor
88.7% Jordie Barrett
88.7% Xavi Taele
88.5% Quinn Tupaea
87.9% AJ Lam

Dominant Tackle %
17.5 Braydon Ennor
14.9 Billy Proctor
9.5 AJ Lam
8.6 Gideon Wrampling
8.6 Lalomilo Lalomilo
8.3 Sam Gilbert

Lam is the only midfielder featuring in all these stats near the top out of 23 players.

I find stats odd when Potbelly can commit so many tacklers, evade so many tacklers....yet is far from dominant and is mostly behind the gainline?

Well the stats are from https://theanalyst.com/club-rugby-stats so take it up with Opta you think they're inaccurate

Tavatavanawai
34.4% Dominant Carry
51.7% Gainline

[Bones]

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@brodean well my eye test didnt see him anywhere near as effective as last year, guess I was wrong.

Midfield ( Leicesters stats from France are considered ). Stats of 23 midfielders this year.

Dominant Carry % (desc)
59.3 AJ Lam
56.8 Sam Gilbert
53.9 Tanielu Tele'a
53.3 Leicester Fainga'anuku
51.7 Bailyn Sullivan
48.0 Peter Umaga-Jensen

Gainline %
80.0 AJ Lam
76.7 Xavi Taele
75.7 Riley Higgins
75.0 Julian Savea
67.8 Sam Gilbert
64.2 Quinn Tupaea

Carries Committing 2+ Tacklers
82.1% Julian Savea
75.3% AJ Lam
71.6% Timoci Tavatavanawai
70.6% Levi Aumua
67.0% Quinn Tupaea
65.0% Leicester Fainga'anuku

Tackle Evasion %
43.2 Billy Proctor
37.7 Timoci Tavatavanawai
34.3 AJ Lam
32.2 Leicester Fainga'anuku
31.2 Peter Umaga-Jensen
30.5 David Havili

Tackle Success
93.3% Anton Lienert-Brown
90.0% Braydon Ennor
88.7% Jordie Barrett
88.7% Xavi Taele
88.5% Quinn Tupaea
87.9% AJ Lam

Dominant Tackle %
17.5 Braydon Ennor
14.9 Billy Proctor
9.5 AJ Lam
8.6 Gideon Wrampling
8.6 Lalomilo Lalomilo
8.3 Sam Gilbert

Lam is the only midfielder featuring in all these stats near the top out of 23 players.

I find stats odd when Potbelly can commit so many tacklers, evade so many tacklers....yet is far from dominant and is mostly behind the gainline?

Well the stats are from https://theanalyst.com/club-rugby-stats so take it up with Opta you think they're inaccurate

Tavatavanawai
34.4% Dominant Carry
51.7% Gainline

If I still lived in Tunbridge Wells I'd write a letter. What a shame.

[Chris]

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
Those stats also show Ennor is the best defensive centre by a long way.

I think he's a very good defender but its not really clear that he's the best. Both Ennor and ALB didn't make a lot of tackles over the season.

In terms of completed tackles per 80 minutes Ennor is ranked 18 out of 23.

Well of course that depends on the possession stats how many tackles per 80 min you can make.
And how the opposition uses possession.

[Chris]

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris mate did you see LF defense stats etc in club rugby in France.. He was worst centre over the season in top 14, by quite a bit. The couple of games I saw him play, he made a few breaks and looked great on attack but abysmal on defense, in that he seemed to not even attempt tackles at time. Reckon JAS would have fun running in his channel

Suaali’i is very poor defensively and could have kittens trying to defend LF.
Procter adds nothing on attack or defence.

Yep, but LF is poor on defense and so would be doing same surely. Games I saw him play weren't so much he couldn't tackle, but more he seemed not to attempt them at times. he may of been confused with defsive set up team used or something, and hope they working on it'

Let’s see how Procter handles Suaali’i it maybe carnage.
Maybe it was miss communication between LF and French speaking players around him with Toulon.

Saying Proctor has nothing on attack or defence is garbage. We know what he’s capable of because we’ve seen it for so long. The game plan is garbage and it’s completely fucked his confidence. That’s on the coaches in my view.

Maybe let’s give Proctor some ball to play with, you know instead of kicking the ball away at 9/10 or crashing the ball up at 12 in almost every play that we do. I’d like the ABs to play with width, they looked so good when they did that in the first 15 mins or so of the last test.

In the first 15 mins Proctor had three solid touches, one underneath his own sticks to put Carter away when Beauden decided to run it. He’s certainly capable, everyone just needs to do their fking job to a high standard, instead of looking like a bunch of clowns who don’t know what the game plan is.

We give him the ball and gives away points through and intercept.

[brodean]

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
Those stats also show Ennor is the best defensive centre by a long way.

I think he's a very good defender but its not really clear that he's the best. Both Ennor and ALB didn't make a lot of tackles over the season.

In terms of completed tackles per 80 minutes Ennor is ranked 18 out of 23.

Well of course that depends on the possession stats how many tackles per 80 min you can make.
And how the opposition uses possession.

David Havili was doing all of Ennor's defensive work for him.

Tackles Per 80 Minutes
17.51 David Havili
7.49 Braydon Ennor

[Canes4life]

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris mate did you see LF defense stats etc in club rugby in France.. He was worst centre over the season in top 14, by quite a bit. The couple of games I saw him play, he made a few breaks and looked great on attack but abysmal on defense, in that he seemed to not even attempt tackles at time. Reckon JAS would have fun running in his channel

Suaali’i is very poor defensively and could have kittens trying to defend LF.
Procter adds nothing on attack or defence.

Yep, but LF is poor on defense and so would be doing same surely. Games I saw him play weren't so much he couldn't tackle, but more he seemed not to attempt them at times. he may of been confused with defsive set up team used or something, and hope they working on it'

Let’s see how Procter handles Suaali’i it maybe carnage.
Maybe it was miss communication between LF and French speaking players around him with Toulon.

Saying Proctor has nothing on attack or defence is garbage. We know what he’s capable of because we’ve seen it for so long. The game plan is garbage and it’s completely fucked his confidence. That’s on the coaches in my view.

Maybe let’s give Proctor some ball to play with, you know instead of kicking the ball away at 9/10 or crashing the ball up at 12 in almost every play that we do. I’d like the ABs to play with width, they looked so good when they did that in the first 15 mins or so of the last test.

In the first 15 mins Proctor had three solid touches, one underneath his own sticks to put Carter away when Beauden decided to run it. He’s certainly capable, everyone just needs to do their fking job to a high standard, instead of looking like a bunch of clowns who don’t know what the game plan is.

We give him the ball and gives away points through and intercept.

That’s happened to the best players over the years. He needs more ball with more time but he’ll never get it because we have a cart horse 10 that offers nothing these days. Lester, Ennor etc would all struggle at 13 right now with the way our game plan is setup.

It’s a reflection of the coaches, Proctor has been one of the most consistent players over the last three years and then looks like a completely different player on the test stage. They haven’t exactly helped a young player get accustomed to one of the hardest positions in the game, because the game plan is geared towards our halves and our back three playing aerial ping pong.

We are all losing faith in Razor and his coaching staff and I hope he gets the boot if we lose the Bled. Deserves too IMO. He’s not ruthless enough to make the hard calls on underperforming senior players and his game plan up until now has been a disaster.

Let’s hope for everyone’s sake that we hit top gear on Saturday.

[Chris]

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
Those stats also show Ennor is the best defensive centre by a long way.

I think he's a very good defender but its not really clear that he's the best. Both Ennor and ALB didn't make a lot of tackles over the season.

In terms of completed tackles per 80 minutes Ennor is ranked 18 out of 23.

Well of course that depends on the possession stats how many tackles per 80 min you can make.
And how the opposition uses possession.

David Havili was doing all of Ennor's defensive work for him.

Tackles Per 80 Minutes
17.51 David Havili
7.49 Braydon Ennor

Has he though ? stats do not tell you that .
It could be the opposition are using the channel Havilli defends in.

[taniwharugby]

stats are great, until they arent.

"Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14% of people know that"

[Chris]

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris mate did you see LF defense stats etc in club rugby in France.. He was worst centre over the season in top 14, by quite a bit. The couple of games I saw him play, he made a few breaks and looked great on attack but abysmal on defense, in that he seemed to not even attempt tackles at time. Reckon JAS would have fun running in his channel

Suaali’i is very poor defensively and could have kittens trying to defend LF.
Procter adds nothing on attack or defence.

Yep, but LF is poor on defense and so would be doing same surely. Games I saw him play weren't so much he couldn't tackle, but more he seemed not to attempt them at times. he may of been confused with defsive set up team used or something, and hope they working on it'

Let’s see how Procter handles Suaali’i it maybe carnage.
Maybe it was miss communication between LF and French speaking players around him with Toulon.

Saying Proctor has nothing on attack or defence is garbage. We know what he’s capable of because we’ve seen it for so long. The game plan is garbage and it’s completely fucked his confidence. That’s on the coaches in my view.

Maybe let’s give Proctor some ball to play with, you know instead of kicking the ball away at 9/10 or crashing the ball up at 12 in almost every play that we do. I’d like the ABs to play with width, they looked so good when they did that in the first 15 mins or so of the last test.

In the first 15 mins Proctor had three solid touches, one underneath his own sticks to put Carter away when Beauden decided to run it. He’s certainly capable, everyone just needs to do their fking job to a high standard, instead of looking like a bunch of clowns who don’t know what the game plan is.

We give him the ball and gives away points through and intercept.

That’s happened to the best players over the years. He needs more ball with more time but he’ll never get it because we have a cart horse 10 that offers nothing these days. Lester, Ennor etc would all struggle at 13 right now with the way our game plan is setup.

It’s a reflection of the coaches, Proctor has been one of the most consistent players over the last three years and then looks like a completely different player on the test stage. They haven’t exactly helped a young player get accustomed to one of the hardest positions in the game, because the game plan is geared towards our halves and our back three playing aerial ping pong.

We are all losing faith in Razor and his coaching staff and I hope he gets the boot if we lose the Bled. Deserves too IMO. He’s not ruthless enough to make the hard calls on underperforming senior players and his game plan up until now has been a disaster.

Let’s hope for everyone’s sake that we hit top gear on Saturday.

If we win it may just paper over the cracks .

[brodean]

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

stats are great, until they arent.

"Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14% of people know that"

Yeah that's true. The point of showing those stats was not to prove Lam is the best but only to show that your idea of Lam having a bad season wasn't an obvious conclusion. From my own eye test I thought he was close to our best player throughout the season.

[brodean]

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
Those stats also show Ennor is the best defensive centre by a long way.

I think he's a very good defender but its not really clear that he's the best. Both Ennor and ALB didn't make a lot of tackles over the season.

In terms of completed tackles per 80 minutes Ennor is ranked 18 out of 23.

Well of course that depends on the possession stats how many tackles per 80 min you can make.
And how the opposition uses possession.

David Havili was doing all of Ennor's defensive work for him.

Tackles Per 80 Minutes
17.51 David Havili
7.49 Braydon Ennor

Has he though ? stats do not tell you that .
It could be the opposition are using the channel Havilli defends in.

Sorry that last point wasn't really serious. Just a frivolous misinterpretation of those metrics.

[Canes4life]

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris mate did you see LF defense stats etc in club rugby in France.. He was worst centre over the season in top 14, by quite a bit. The couple of games I saw him play, he made a few breaks and looked great on attack but abysmal on defense, in that he seemed to not even attempt tackles at time. Reckon JAS would have fun running in his channel

Suaali’i is very poor defensively and could have kittens trying to defend LF.
Procter adds nothing on attack or defence.

Yep, but LF is poor on defense and so would be doing same surely. Games I saw him play weren't so much he couldn't tackle, but more he seemed not to attempt them at times. he may of been confused with defsive set up team used or something, and hope they working on it'

Let’s see how Procter handles Suaali’i it maybe carnage.
Maybe it was miss communication between LF and French speaking players around him with Toulon.

Saying Proctor has nothing on attack or defence is garbage. We know what he’s capable of because we’ve seen it for so long. The game plan is garbage and it’s completely fucked his confidence. That’s on the coaches in my view.

Maybe let’s give Proctor some ball to play with, you know instead of kicking the ball away at 9/10 or crashing the ball up at 12 in almost every play that we do. I’d like the ABs to play with width, they looked so good when they did that in the first 15 mins or so of the last test.

In the first 15 mins Proctor had three solid touches, one underneath his own sticks to put Carter away when Beauden decided to run it. He’s certainly capable, everyone just needs to do their fking job to a high standard, instead of looking like a bunch of clowns who don’t know what the game plan is.

We give him the ball and gives away points through and intercept.

That’s happened to the best players over the years. He needs more ball with more time but he’ll never get it because we have a cart horse 10 that offers nothing these days. Lester, Ennor etc would all struggle at 13 right now with the way our game plan is setup.

It’s a reflection of the coaches, Proctor has been one of the most consistent players over the last three years and then looks like a completely different player on the test stage. They haven’t exactly helped a young player get accustomed to one of the hardest positions in the game, because the game plan is geared towards our halves and our back three playing aerial ping pong.

We are all losing faith in Razor and his coaching staff and I hope he gets the boot if we lose the Bled. Deserves too IMO. He’s not ruthless enough to make the hard calls on underperforming senior players and his game plan up until now has been a disaster.

Let’s hope for everyone’s sake that we hit top gear on Saturday.

If we win it may just paper over the cracks .

Yeah but at least it will be a start. The Wallabies have won some very big games this year so beating them shouldn’t be sniffed at. If we can win this week and then in Perth it will be a big confidence booster for those players and coaches under pressure. If we lose both then I’d expect jobs to be in the firing line (including Proctor).

Let’s hope we’ve learnt something from the second test against the Boks, if we come out and play exactly the same style of rugby and lose, that will be a massive disappointment.

[MN5]

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
Those stats also show Ennor is the best defensive centre by a long way.

I think he's a very good defender but its not really clear that he's the best. Both Ennor and ALB didn't make a lot of tackles over the season.

In terms of completed tackles per 80 minutes Ennor is ranked 18 out of 23.

Well of course that depends on the possession stats how many tackles per 80 min you can make.
And how the opposition uses possession.

David Havili was doing all of Ennor's defensive work for him.

Tackles Per 80 Minutes
17.51 David Havili
7.49 Braydon Ennor

Arguing the relative defensive merits of two guys who are rightfully about a million miles away from the AB squad.......

5.05pm on Saturday can't come fast enough !

[taniwharugby]

@brodean not sure i said he had a bad season, just seemed less effective compared to last year to my eye.

[ploughboy]

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
Those stats also show Ennor is the best defensive centre by a long way.

I think he's a very good defender but its not really clear that he's the best. Both Ennor and ALB didn't make a lot of tackles over the season.

In terms of completed tackles per 80 minutes Ennor is ranked 18 out of 23.

alb spent a lot of season injured but as your stats say he tacked at 93%

[taniwharugby]

Missed tackles and the bottom line is pretty telling.