Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2
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@brodean said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
Beating the Springboks was a good win. They're easily the best side in the world at the moment and they've had our number over the last two years.
We beat them fair and square. They wanted to break that Eden Park record and would have been up for that game.
After 2 decades of owning the Wallabies and the Bledisloe you'll excuse me if Im not pumped about another couple of wins against the Wallabies.
Slightly better Wallabies team than the last few years. I thought beating them in Australia would be tough, had that at 50-50 at best
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@Chuck72 said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@Richie8-7 springboks in auckland was good
But seems like some think we only win when the opposition play bad so that game probably doesn't count eitherAnd even if we beat a good team like the Springboks, "we only won by 7". I don't think they're as great as we're cracking them up to be either. We were a good referee and a bad D Mac miss away from beating them 2-0 away last year. I guess we'll find out next year.
We've unearthed some decent players and in 2 years, we should be firing*
*I'm well aware we won't accept losses in the meantime
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@brodean said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
Lakai and Parker combined to complete 12 tackles. Newell made 11. Taylor made 15. You cant just put it down to lack of Irish possession for their loosies making more tackles. Relative to their team mates the ABs loosies are not lifting their fair share. Our loose forwards failed to show up defensively in that record Bok loss and that's when you need your loosies leading the defence.
This is a weak Irish side that got a red card. Theres not much to read into this game.
We weren't winning the ruck speed in the RC until the games against a spent Wallabies side.
I’d agree that not a lot can be taken from this game. To me, it was mostly a continuation of the form post-Wellington: some good (breakdown pressure, defensive cohesion, bench impact) with a lot of areas still in need of much improvement (lineout, kick and passing accuracy, decision-making).
The issues in defence are, in my opinion, systemic rather than player-based. I don’t really see any issues in terms of work rate for either Lakai or Parker (Sititi is a bit more ambiguous but I think he’ll be fine, eventually). Lakai made 14 tackles in Perth (first start), and Parker made 12 and 14 tackles during the Bledisloe series. Those aren’t poor numbers by any means.
The fact that Taylor and Newell tackled more just seems like a distribution of roles. That’s what they’re there for: they clean rucks and they tackle. The loose forwards need to provide go-forward on attack and that’s what they did. Again, it wasn’t perfect (or even particularly good) but all in all, I think they did a reasonable job.
Parker had probably his worst game up to this point: reasonably inaccurate and nowhere near physical enough at the breakdown. If he gets another shot against Scotland, he’ll have to do a lot better.
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@MN5 said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
Can we have some stats on Parker @Mauss ?
I haven’t particularly focused on Parker during this game so I can’t really add anything beyond what is generally available (very rudimentary overview: 2 carries for 0 post-contact metres made, 5 tackles with two misses, no dominant tackles nor tackle busts, 1 turnover lost without any won. So yeah.. pretty bad).
He looked like he was struggling out there, in terms of timing and physicality. It's unfortunate because I thought he played well against the Wallabies. Hopefully he has a better showing in the next few Tests. But I can imagine Sititi getting a shot at 6, especially against England, as the latter play with an extremely mobile back row (Pepper - Underhill - Earl, as well as Curry and Pollock).
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@Bones said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@MiketheSnow said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@Tim said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@MiketheSnow said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
The mitigation was it was a forward pass
That is a unique excuse. No one else saw it, nor did would it have impacted the tackle situation.
Come on ...
Kelleher asked the ref to look at the pass. Ref didn't.
Beirne wasn't set up to tackle. He was set up to brace for impact from a dummy runner.
Then it changed in an instant and he made head contact in the collision.
It certainly wasn't a tackle.
Sir, that is the most fucked up turnaround I've seen in a while. Any colour other than black and you would be the strongest voice saying the defender must do better.
I did say that
I felt it was a YC for the reasons I stated
The officials and majority on here felt otherwise and it was deemed a RC offence
I accepted it
Doesn’t mean I have to like it
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@KiwiPie said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
Do a few people on this thread need reminding that it was a 20 minute red card and that Ireland had 15 men on the field for the whole second half?
It was less about the 20 minutes and more about the loss of a player who normally makes a big difference to how Ireland get over the gain line
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@Mauss said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@MN5 said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
Can we have some stats on Parker @Mauss ?
I haven’t particularly focused on Parker during this game so I can’t really add anything beyond what is generally available (very rudimentary overview: 2 carries for 0 post-contact metres made, 5 tackles with two misses, no dominant tackles nor tackle busts, 1 turnover lost without any won. So yeah.. pretty bad).
He looked like he was struggling out there, in terms of timing and physicality. It's unfortunate because I thought he played well against the Wallabies. Hopefully he has a better showing in the next few Tests. But I can imagine Sititi getting a shot at 6, especially against England, as the latter play with an extremely mobile back row (Pepper - Underhill - Earl, as well as Curry and Pollock).
On paper that is really poor. Like a bigger more anonymous Rueben Thorne. Was kinda hoping for an Owen Finegan/Andre Venter type effort.
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@canefan said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
The game is ass at the moment
@MiketheSnow said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
The officials and majority on here felt otherwise and it was deemed a RC offence
The precedent in the RWC final is that head clashes, no matter how unintentional, are red cards. So just be consistent.
narrator voice: the refs were not consistent
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@ploughboy safer but no dominant tackles, doesn't stop off loads
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@MN5 said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
On paper that is really poor. Like a bigger more anonymous Rueben Thorne. Was kinda hoping for an Owen Finegan/Andre Venter type effort.
Stats never tell the whole story but I think it's fair to say he didn't have his best outing.
It took Parker a while to find his feet at Super Rugby-level so it's not surprising he can be a bit inconsistent at Test-level. I think he's eventually going to be a very good player - whether that's Finegan/Venter-level good, that I don't know - but it might take some time.
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@reprobate said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
I've only just got around to watching this. To those who are trying to be positive about the margin, well, that's an Irish team in decline with an early red card, and they've had to chance their arm late.
Worst lineout performance from the usually rock-solid Taylor I can recall. New combinations not working (which fucking gets my dander up when Caleb Clarke says they've just basically had the week off!), but also not-straights.
Beauden Barrett is still being defended and picked when he is making mistakes that would see you dropped at schoolboy level. Great little pop pass to a beautiful line from McKenzie for the try, but the rest was pretty much slop.
The Irish were really mediocre. Poor kicking (apart from the excellent JGP), really poor lineout, poor scrum, lots of knock-ons (that's you James Lowe ya cockhead).
I wasn't surprised the card turned red, but I think it's really harsh. The Irish guy didn't think he was making a tackle at all. BB didn't think he was getting the ball. The Irish captain was right, the pass was forward, which put them both in a collision they weren't prepared for. It was accidental, and I'd be much happier if that was yellow.
One last comment - the whinging on here from NZers, and the sense of victimhood has become a goddamned fucking disgrace. Especially when combined with constantly calling the Irish out for exactly that. I know it's frustrating that we're a bit shit, but harden up you bunch of fluffybunnies, you're embarrassing.That BB to Mackenzie type of play is something they should be trying to set up more frequently. Mackenzies acceleration when he comes into the line is superb and his timing is also excellent. He explodes onto the ball.
A very similar situation occurred in Wellington 2nd half v Boks where Mackenzie was coming fast into the line and the ABs had numbers...... Unfortunately BB didn't pass and took the ball into contact.
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@Mauss said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@MN5 said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
On paper that is really poor. Like a bigger more anonymous Rueben Thorne. Was kinda hoping for an Owen Finegan/Andre Venter type effort.
Stats never tell the whole story but I think it's fair to say he didn't have his best outing.
It took Parker a while to find his feet at Super Rugby-level so it's not surprising he can be a bit inconsistent at Test-level. I think he's eventually going to be a very good player - whether that's Finegan/Venter-level good, that I don't know - but it might take some time.
I threw them in as I thought they were Thornes era but they're actually slightly before.
With all this talk of loosies being too short it's ridiculous they have a guy as tall as Parker and not use him as a lineout option.
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@MiketheSnow said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@Bones said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@MiketheSnow said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@Tim said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@MiketheSnow said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
The mitigation was it was a forward pass
That is a unique excuse. No one else saw it, nor did would it have impacted the tackle situation.
Come on ...
Kelleher asked the ref to look at the pass. Ref didn't.
Beirne wasn't set up to tackle. He was set up to brace for impact from a dummy runner.
Then it changed in an instant and he made head contact in the collision.
It certainly wasn't a tackle.
Sir, that is the most fucked up turnaround I've seen in a while. Any colour other than black and you would be the strongest voice saying the defender must do better.
I did say that
I felt it was a YC for the reasons I stated
The officials and majority on here felt otherwise and it was deemed a RC offence
I accepted it
Doesn’t mean I have to like it
The only mitigation you have come up with is that he didn't think Beauden would get the ball, but that makes it worse! If Beauden didn't receive the pass, then it's a no arms shoulder to the head of a player that didn't even have the ball! His technique was extremely poor, that was one of the more clear cut reds I've seen and I am so surprised anyone is arguing against it.
Either we change the rules and don't red card players for head contact like that, or we implement the rules consistently. People in this thread were "happy" it was given red because that is clearly what the rules state; so often it is reffed inconsistently which brings the game into disrepute.
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@Richie8-7 said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@Richie8-7 said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
yes, it was horrific. And pretty shocking how badly they threw in the towel. I don't think we're as bad as that result though
Horrific is an understatement.
I've been watching since '71 and never, ever seen an AB team simply give up like that. It was the worst AB performance I've ever seen by some margin. And the worrying thing is too many people simply shrugged their shoulders.
My thoughts after that match was that a loss at Eden Park to Australia is the last straw for Razor. Like losing a series at home against Ireland should have been it for Foster (although based on the Irish reaction on social media in the last 48 hours, we could claim to be robbed by a red card in the Dunedin test). Since Wellington we've beaten Australia and Ireland away (Chicago is away as far as I'm concerned). If we win a grand slam, then he'll have appeared to have corrected course. If we lose to England, he's still in purgatory. If we lose to England and Scotland and/or Wales, then we need to throw a bag full of cash and a dozen hookers at Schmidt.
My thoughts after that match weren't about Robertson. We may have lost at home to Ireland (the no.1 team in the world) but we never stopped trying.
We did in Wellington - and that's the difference.
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@Mauss re the loose forward comparison vs Ireland - the red card has to make a big difference there. The Irish were buggered late in the game, they had to make a lot of tackles as you point out. Also the fact that it was Beirne, who is an extra loose forward for them, and one of their best.
Sititi came on and dominated late - looks like if you take out his carry metres, the Irish had more? So are we really doing the right thing with our starting loosies? -
@No-Quarter said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
Gotta love people coming in after the fact and acting like they knew we'd win, instead of putting their balls on the block and posting live during the game with all the emotion that entails. These threads would be boring as fuck if everyone waited until the game had finished before being brave enough to share their thoughts.
Im already fucking disgusted with next Saturdays performance against Scotland.
