Aussie Community Rugby
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@Kiwiwomble said in Aussie Community Rugby:
here is huge % of PI playing in Victoria comps
Very noticeable in the VIC v NSW U16 fixture the other week. Lot of PI boys in the VIC team.
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@KiwiKi from a Sydney pov it has been an interesting period.
I don't think Premier clubs are pathways to professional rugby here.
By the time a lot of these guys make a Premier Colts U20 squad, they're either in the pipeline or out in the cold. That pipeline is probably playing for the right school in order to get visibility to selectors from U15 onward, and making the relevant schools / state squads.
This has followed the rugby league path of starting to pick kids up in early high school - driven by the need to feed the machine and try and secure the best talent.
PI kids who want to play pro rugby in Australia have the same options as any other kid BUT they're going to tend to be from areas where league dominates in NSW and QLD, demographically speaking. They're also going to have far more opportunities in rugby league, and given they are generally from lower socioeconomic areas the option to play league provides a more immediate payback for their talent and hard work.
The Waratahs might brag about how well their U16 and U19 teams are doing, as well as some of the young selecttions for various representative honours.
They have less representative players than Parramatta Eels, who in addition to running Harold Matthews U17, SG Ball U19, and Jersey Flegg U21, have Lisa Fiaola U17 and Tarsha Gale U19 girls/womens. On top of that there are multiple clubs running supporting squads for these teams in the area, as well as Sydney Shield and Presidents Cup for men and Harvey Norman Premiership for women in NSW.
Then you've got reserve grade Eels playing NSW Cup and the Eels main squad playing NRL Premiership.
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mohikamo. No, I didn't factor in rugby league and I see what you are saying, the focus is on Pacific players selection chances into Super Rugby.
To clarify at the time of my rough calculation Queensland Reds had 24.39% of International players (primarily Pacific players) 24.39% ÷ 9 Queensland Premier teams = 0.027% chance of IP player selection success to Queensland Reds (24.39% ÷ 9 = 0.027%) . There are numerous variables not taken into account. If 8 Pacific players from all 9 QLD Premier teams had their sites on SR, they'd have 0.030 % of selection. I know a few young Pacific players in Australia who have their sites on Super Rugby and are recruited into the Premiers which promote themselves as the Gateway to Super Rugby (Which it is) but when you say this to people individually this sounds achievable but with the amount of Pacific players in the Premiers, how achievable is it. Hopefully explained myself better -
The big challenge for PI kids entering rugby here is making sure they're noticed and the system itself.
I don't have numbers. This is mostly anecdotal evidence.
A lot of talented Western Sydney kids - many of whom are from PI families - either need to move to another program (school or club) to get into the right stream, or are completely ignored despite success.
Western Sydney Two Blues and Penrith District have very strong age rep sides who regularly win cups. The selection for state/national squads are disproportionate to this success, in my opinion.
No, you can't always say a successful team has the best players, but still....
A junior club here in Sydney was quite successful, with an all-girls team winning their age group competition easily. These girls were playing rugby league as well, and probably only playing rugby because their parents were from nations where it is the first choice code (for now).
On Grand Final day were out of sight of their opponent. Unfortunately they had no substitutes due to mishap and illness on the day, and they were given a yellow card - in this age group a yellow card is replaced ie. you don't play short.
However the competition rules state you must have 15 players on the park at all times.
So, despite winning the GF easily, they were disqualified due to the competition rules.
Do you think those kids or parents are going to stick with rugby after that?
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@KiwiKi said in Aussie Community Rugby:
mohikamo. No, I didn't factor in rugby league and I see what you are saying, the focus is on Pacific players selection chances into Super Rugby.
To clarify at the time of my rough calculation Queensland Reds had 24.39% of International players (primarily Pacific players) 24.39% ÷ 9 Queensland Premier teams = 0.027% chance of IP player selection success to Queensland Reds (24.39% ÷ 9 = 0.027%) . There are numerous variables not taken into account. If 8 Pacific players from all 9 QLD Premier teams had their sites on SR, they'd have 0.030 % of selection. I know a few young Pacific players in Australia who have their sites on Super Rugby and are recruited into the Premiers which promote themselves as the Gateway to Super Rugby (Which it is) but when you say this to people individually this sounds achievable but with the amount of Pacific players in the Premiers, how achievable is it. Hopefully explained myself betterthats not really how stats works thought, every player has different likely hood based on skill, and theyre also not working on quotas....so justbecause 24% of the reds currently has PI heritage doesnt mean it always will...and each team isn;t going to be even...players form better teams will have better chance of higher honours
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@KiwiKi said in Aussie Community Rugby:
@NTA Thanks , that gives me a bit more clarity.
No problem.
Also keep in mind: Parramatta Eels are one NRL franchise. When you factor in the other clubs in Sydney alone that have a program for youth pathways (whether they are NRL or not), you're going to draw a lot of kids from across the Sydney basin and country areas into NRL high performance environments. And at each stage, there are more kids lining up to take your spot if you get injured or lose interest, or get pushed out due to politics or favouritism.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Aussie Community Rugby:
thats not really how stats works thought, every player has different likely hood based on skill, and theyre also not working on quotas....so justbecause 24% of the reds currently has PI heritage doesnt mean it always will...and each team isn;t going to be even...players form better teams will have better chance of higher honours
Cook Islands kid played senior rugby for our little amateur club a couple of years back. Big kid, skills, fast, and fit enough for us
Troubled household - brother in jail, other brothers nearly in jail, Dad a bit of a dickhead. But this kid was smarter than the rest of them and could have been anything, athletically speaking.
He was touted as joining Penrith Panthers in the junior ranks, but we knew he wouldn't make it because he had too much size and talent for his age.
There would be another hundred kids in Sydney alone - whatever the background - with his physical attributes, prepared to out work him.
He's playing shitty third-tier league and getting paid $500 a game. That was never his ceiling.
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@Kiwiwomble yes, I get that, Skill has a lot to do with it and there are other variables and I do realise it will change from year to year , it was just an example but when it is put to Pacific Players , this is the gateway to SR and this is what attracts the player to make the move to Australian Premier teams, what is the success rate. I would say, it's probably not had a thorough inspection. I was just wondering.
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@NTA said in Aussie Community Rugby:
On Grand Final day were out of sight of their opponent. Unfortunately they had no substitutes due to mishap and illness on the day, and they were given a yellow card - in this age group a yellow card is replaced ie. you don't play short.
However the competition rules state you must have 15 players on the park at all times.
So, despite winning the GF easily, they were disqualified due to the competition rules.
WTF!!! That is idiotic.
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@Nepia said in Aussie Community Rugby:
@NTA said in Aussie Community Rugby:
On Grand Final day were out of sight of their opponent. Unfortunately they had no substitutes due to mishap and illness on the day, and they were given a yellow card - in this age group a yellow card is replaced ie. you don't play short.
However the competition rules state you must have 15 players on the park at all times.
So, despite winning the GF easily, they were disqualified due to the competition rules.
WTF!!! That is idiotic.
It gets worse when you consider they were from Western Sydney (right next to Two Blues at Parramatta) and basically a Junior startup going great guns and looking to the future.
It gets worse - rumours hold that someone on the board at another Premier Club made comments about "not having too many Islanders or we'll end up like Two Blues or West Harbour".
There is a level of dumb so bad it looks like malice.
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@NTA said in Aussie Community Rugby:
@Nepia said in Aussie Community Rugby:
@NTA said in Aussie Community Rugby:
On Grand Final day were out of sight of their opponent. Unfortunately they had no substitutes due to mishap and illness on the day, and they were given a yellow card - in this age group a yellow card is replaced ie. you don't play short.
However the competition rules state you must have 15 players on the park at all times.
So, despite winning the GF easily, they were disqualified due to the competition rules.
WTF!!! That is idiotic.
It gets worse when you consider they were from Western Sydney (right next to Two Blues at Parramatta) and basically a Junior startup going great guns and looking to the future.
It gets worse - rumours hold that someone on the board at another Premier Club made comments about "not having too many Islanders or we'll end up like Two Blues or West Harbour".
There is a level of dumb so bad it looks like malice.
