Red Cards & HIA
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genuine question - are you saying that in the first shot in that clip you don't see Beirne bounce backwards after the contact? The clip you posted shows pretty clearly from the first angle that Beirne takes three steps back immediately after the contact takes place, it actually also shows that BB actually keeps travelling forwards and spins slightly to the side line. I would argue that's passive in contact, which these days usually provides enough mitigation.
I understand it was upgraded to a 20 min red because of the level of danger, which with a shoulder to the head I can follow the logic, it just seems to fly slightly in the face of what I've seen more recently. Just my twopenneth
@Dodge said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
genuine question - are you saying that in the first shot in that clip you don't see Beirne bounce backwards after the contact? The clip you posted shows pretty clearly from the first angle that Beirne takes three steps back immediately after the contact takes place, it actually also shows that BB actually keeps travelling forwards and spins slightly to the side line. I would argue that's passive in contact, which these days usually provides enough mitigation.
I understand it was upgraded to a 20 min red because of the level of danger, which with a shoulder to the head I can follow the logic, it just seems to fly slightly in the face of what I've seen more recently. Just my twopenneth
Looked to me like Beirne moved towards BB and pushed him away/over. Looked to me that Beirne moved back after pushing him to add momentum.
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what are the chances the red card gets rescinded?
@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
what are the chances the red card gets rescinded?
It's official, World Rugby is a joke, they need to take a long hard look at things, this does not reflect well on them and thier officials.
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@MacDazzler said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
Ireland are definitely heading on the downslide with a aging roster and uncertainty at 10.
Although it would be good of them to pull a massive performance out of the hat and get a win against the Boks in a couple of weeks time…..
@ACT-Crusader said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@MacDazzler said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
Ireland are definitely heading on the downslide with a aging roster and uncertainty at 10.
Although it would be good of them to pull a massive performance out of the hat and get a win against the Boks in a couple of weeks time…..
If they're going to win in a few weeks it's even more important to say they're on a massive slide now!
#mindgames4thewin -
@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
what are the chances the red card gets rescinded?
It's official, World Rugby is a joke, they need to take a long hard look at things, this does not reflect well on them and thier officials.
@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
what are the chances the red card gets rescinded?
It's official, World Rugby is a joke, they need to take a long hard look at things, this does not reflect well on them and thier officials.
That's fucking laughable. A clear no arms tackle with a shoulder to the head and no mitigation.
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@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
what are the chances the red card gets rescinded?
It's official, World Rugby is a joke, they need to take a long hard look at things, this does not reflect well on them and thier officials.
That's fucking laughable. A clear no arms tackle with a shoulder to the head and no mitigation.
@antipodean I'm more concerned with the fact the TMO had all that time to look at it, made his call and it was deemed wrong.
Does he get sanctioned for that? I mean in terms of his job, that is almighty fuck-up, and as some have said, while we will never know, it has potentially impacted the outcome of the game.
Credibility of the sport continues to fall.
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@antipodean I'm more concerned with the fact the TMO had all that time to look at it, made his call and it was deemed wrong.
Does he get sanctioned for that? I mean in terms of his job, that is almighty fuck-up, and as some have said, while we will never know, it has potentially impacted the outcome of the game.
Credibility of the sport continues to fall.
@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@antipodean I'm more concerned with the fact the TMO had all that time to look at it, made his call and it was deemed wrong.
Does he get sanctioned for that? I mean in terms of his job, that is almighty fuck-up, and as some have said, while we will never know, it has potentially impacted the outcome of the game.
Credibility of the sport continues to fall.
It is a joke. In this case, I thought a YC looked about right, but by the letter of the law and recent interpretation, it should be a RC.
There has to be a system that allows the game to flow with some penalty for the player, but doesn't ruin the event for fans.
I think I've settled on a YC for all of these, with the player replaced after 10 mins.
If you are out of replacements, you can't send another out.
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As someone who is in favour of no further sanction, and someone who doesn't think the game is best served by that situation being a red card... deeming it an incorrect call is bizarre and means we continue to have no consistency, and have no idea what the rules actually are.
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@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@antipodean I'm more concerned with the fact the TMO had all that time to look at it, made his call and it was deemed wrong.
Does he get sanctioned for that? I mean in terms of his job, that is almighty fuck-up, and as some have said, while we will never know, it has potentially impacted the outcome of the game.
Credibility of the sport continues to fall.
It is a joke. In this case, I thought a YC looked about right, but by the letter of the law and recent interpretation, it should be a RC.
There has to be a system that allows the game to flow with some penalty for the player, but doesn't ruin the event for fans.
I think I've settled on a YC for all of these, with the player replaced after 10 mins.
If you are out of replacements, you can't send another out.
@gt12 said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@antipodean I'm more concerned with the fact the TMO had all that time to look at it, made his call and it was deemed wrong.
Does he get sanctioned for that? I mean in terms of his job, that is almighty fuck-up, and as some have said, while we will never know, it has potentially impacted the outcome of the game.
Credibility of the sport continues to fall.
If you are out of replacements, you can't send another out.
It would be nice if this rule was applied in general.
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@gt12 said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@antipodean I'm more concerned with the fact the TMO had all that time to look at it, made his call and it was deemed wrong.
Does he get sanctioned for that? I mean in terms of his job, that is almighty fuck-up, and as some have said, while we will never know, it has potentially impacted the outcome of the game.
Credibility of the sport continues to fall.
If you are out of replacements, you can't send another out.
It would be nice if this rule was applied in general.
Tbf, I can think of a range of ways for Rassie et al. to get around this in the interest of 'safety' so it's still a relatively poor idea. I like the fact that rugby has laws and interpretations, but we need to make these easier for regular fans to interact with.
All in all, I think even the YC / RC distinction is hurting us.
Just get them off, have a set penalty, then prevent them from playing future games using a report system that is built for purpose.
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@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
what are the chances the red card gets rescinded?
It's official, World Rugby is a joke, they need to take a long hard look at things, this does not reflect well on them and thier officials.
That's fucking laughable. A clear no arms tackle with a shoulder to the head and no mitigation.
@antipodean said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
what are the chances the red card gets rescinded?
It's official, World Rugby is a joke, they need to take a long hard look at things, this does not reflect well on them and thier officials.
That's fucking laughable. A clear no arms tackle with a shoulder to the head and no mitigation.
He didn't mean to.
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Tbf, I can think of a range of ways for Rassie et al. to get around this in the interest of 'safety' so it's still a relatively poor idea. I like the fact that rugby has laws and interpretations, but we need to make these easier for regular fans to interact with.
All in all, I think even the YC / RC distinction is hurting us.
Just get them off, have a set penalty, then prevent them from playing future games using a report system that is built for purpose.
Seems like you want something like ice hockey.
Just man advantage power-play team penalties, and ejections and suspensions for individual players.
I like that myself.
In ice hockey and rugby the action is super dynamic (or should be) with a lot of speed and physicality.
Rugby has more in common with that sport, than a sport like soccer.
Yellow and red cards, soccer crap. -
@antipodean said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
what are the chances the red card gets rescinded?
It's official, World Rugby is a joke, they need to take a long hard look at things, this does not reflect well on them and thier officials.
That's fucking laughable. A clear no arms tackle with a shoulder to the head and no mitigation.
He didn't mean to.
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@booboo but he also said sorry didnt he, if that isnt an admission of guilt, I dunno what is!
@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@booboo but he also said sorry didnt he, if that isnt an admission of guilt, I dunno what is!
Hey Beaudie, I’m sorry you got hit with an accidental shoulder as a result of me choosing to be there and my body accidentally leading in without my mind having any intent but the impact still jarred you, but I didn’t know that it would.
All sweet? Yeah no probs.
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@antipodean I'm more concerned with the fact the TMO had all that time to look at it, made his call and it was deemed wrong.
Does he get sanctioned for that? I mean in terms of his job, that is almighty fuck-up, and as some have said, while we will never know, it has potentially impacted the outcome of the game.
Credibility of the sport continues to fall.
@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
I'm more concerned with the fact the TMO had all that time to look at it, made his call and it was deemed wrong.
Does he get sanctioned for that? I mean in terms of his job, that is almighty fuck-up, and as some have said, while we will never know, it has potentially impacted the outcome of the game.
Credibility of the sport continues to fall.
This is the very concerning thing here.
The incdent has been micro-analysed twice in detail, and the different analysts have come up with different conclusions.
This is not quick, on the spot, call.
WR really does need to explain the reasons why it was rescinded.
Not really bothered which way the call went, but the inconsistency is alarming.In rugby league this incident would have been only a penalty on the field, and a report made, to be looked at later.
Move on; not a possibly game changing incident.
There are other ways to officiate. -
@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@booboo but he also said sorry didnt he, if that isnt an admission of guilt, I dunno what is!
Hey Beaudie, I’m sorry you got hit with an accidental shoulder as a result of me choosing to be there and my body accidentally leading in without my mind having any intent but the impact still jarred you, but I didn’t know that it would.
All sweet? Yeah no probs.
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@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@antipodean I'm more concerned with the fact the TMO had all that time to look at it, made his call and it was deemed wrong.
Does he get sanctioned for that? I mean in terms of his job, that is almighty fuck-up, and as some have said, while we will never know, it has potentially impacted the outcome of the game.
Credibility of the sport continues to fall.
It is a joke. In this case, I thought a YC looked about right, but by the letter of the law and recent interpretation, it should be a RC.
There has to be a system that allows the game to flow with some penalty for the player, but doesn't ruin the event for fans.
I think I've settled on a YC for all of these, with the player replaced after 10 mins.
If you are out of replacements, you can't send another out.
@gt12 said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@antipodean I'm more concerned with the fact the TMO had all that time to look at it, made his call and it was deemed wrong.
Does he get sanctioned for that? I mean in terms of his job, that is almighty fuck-up, and as some have said, while we will never know, it has potentially impacted the outcome of the game.
Credibility of the sport continues to fall.
It is a joke. In this case, I thought a YC looked about right, but by the letter of the law and recent interpretation, it should be a RC.
I contrast that completely illegal act with Cane's RWC RC and I cannot fathom how they come to the conclusion the most recent is the one that should be downgraded.
Unless of course they've determined the RWC outcome was a farce but don't want to admit it.
There has to be a system that allows the game to flow with some penalty for the player, but doesn't ruin the event for fans.
Penalty with after game review and much, much longer suspension.
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@gt12 said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@antipodean I'm more concerned with the fact the TMO had all that time to look at it, made his call and it was deemed wrong.
Does he get sanctioned for that? I mean in terms of his job, that is almighty fuck-up, and as some have said, while we will never know, it has potentially impacted the outcome of the game.
Credibility of the sport continues to fall.
It is a joke. In this case, I thought a YC looked about right, but by the letter of the law and recent interpretation, it should be a RC.
I contrast that completely illegal act with Cane's RWC RC and I cannot fathom how they come to the conclusion the most recent is the one that should be downgraded.
Unless of course they've determined the RWC outcome was a farce but don't want to admit it.
There has to be a system that allows the game to flow with some penalty for the player, but doesn't ruin the event for fans.
Penalty with after game review and much, much longer suspension.
@antipodean for it to be rescinded, does it have to be contested or appealed?
I have a vague recollection that they were going to accept Canes one?
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@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
what are the chances the red card gets rescinded?
It's official, World Rugby is a joke, they need to take a long hard look at things, this does not reflect well on them and thier officials.
@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
what are the chances the red card gets rescinded?
It's official, World Rugby is a joke, they need to take a long hard look at things, this does not reflect well on them and thier officials.
This is the icing on top of a farcical cake we started baking during Lions tour 2017.
Id love to know what Sam Cane thinks every time he see's this shit.
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@antipodean said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
what are the chances the red card gets rescinded?
It's official, World Rugby is a joke, they need to take a long hard look at things, this does not reflect well on them and thier officials.
That's fucking laughable. A clear no arms tackle with a shoulder to the head and no mitigation.
He didn't mean to.
@booboo said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@antipodean said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
what are the chances the red card gets rescinded?
It's official, World Rugby is a joke, they need to take a long hard look at things, this does not reflect well on them and thier officials.
That's fucking laughable. A clear no arms tackle with a shoulder to the head and no mitigation.
He didn't mean to.
Starting point for the sanction: 12 weeks.
Discount for not meaning to: 6 weeks.
Discount for contrition: 4 weeks.
Discount for being a guardian of the spirit of the game: 3 weeks.RC rescinded and personal apology from WR for the embarrassment.
