England v All Blacks
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@pourfasse can you elaborate? He was poor on the wing but has been excellent at 12 and 15 for the ABs. I don't recall him making poor choices, I do remember him saving our wingers bacon on more than one occasion taking every high ball that came our way.
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@pourfasse can you elaborate? He was poor on the wing but has been excellent at 12 and 15 for the ABs. I don't recall him making poor choices, I do remember him saving our wingers bacon on more than one occasion taking every high ball that came our way.
@No-Quarter I don't think Jordie's fast or elusive enough to be a world class fullback, he'd just be a more coordinated Freddie Steward. 12 is also a pretty good position to play to challenge for our own high kicks, and we have already been using him defensively in that role somewhat.
I also think it's more Jordie at 12 that is the golden boy and unlikely to be moved. -
Hasn’t Jordie’s position been determined like Ardie’s? Guessing selection meetings went like this… ‘’Great player so has to play… but we’ve got Laumape or SBW at 12 so he can play full back…. Looks like Laumape and SBW are gone but now we’ve got this full back called Will, or we’re running a dual playmaker today so Jordie can play 12’’
Pace at full back is not the be all and end all. Look at some of the great players there. The wingers had the gas, they had everything else.
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Posters who are complaining about the videos of the All Blacks training this week should take notice of this clip of England training this week:
https://twitter.com/skysports/status/1988343059650613336?s=46
https://twitter.com/bbcsport/status/1988588406566441140?s=46
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Hasn’t Jordie’s position been determined like Ardie’s? Guessing selection meetings went like this… ‘’Great player so has to play… but we’ve got Laumape or SBW at 12 so he can play full back…. Looks like Laumape and SBW are gone but now we’ve got this full back called Will, or we’re running a dual playmaker today so Jordie can play 12’’
Pace at full back is not the be all and end all. Look at some of the great players there. The wingers had the gas, they had everything else.
@game_film said in England Vs All Blacks:
Hasn’t Jordie’s position been determined like Ardie’s? Guessing selection meetings went like this… ‘’Great player so has to play… but we’ve got Laumape or SBW at 12 so he can play full back…. Looks like Laumape and SBW are gone but now we’ve got this full back called Will, so Jordie can play 12’’
Pace at full back is not the be all and end all. Look at some of the great players there. The wingers had the gas, they had everything else.
No, but it is important - and particularly for how we play.
Gallagher, Wright, Crowley, Timu, Howarth, Osborne, Cullen, Wilson, Mils, Dagg, Smith, Beauden, McKenzie, Jordan.
Most of that list - and all of the good ones - I reckon were either faster or more elusive than Jordie (or both). -
@game_film said in England Vs All Blacks:
Hasn’t Jordie’s position been determined like Ardie’s? Guessing selection meetings went like this… ‘’Great player so has to play… but we’ve got Laumape or SBW at 12 so he can play full back…. Looks like Laumape and SBW are gone but now we’ve got this full back called Will, so Jordie can play 12’’
Pace at full back is not the be all and end all. Look at some of the great players there. The wingers had the gas, they had everything else.
No, but it is important - and particularly for how we play.
Gallagher, Wright, Crowley, Timu, Howarth, Osborne, Cullen, Wilson, Mils, Dagg, Smith, Beauden, McKenzie, Jordan.
Most of that list - and all of the good ones - I reckon were either faster or more elusive than Jordie (or both).@reprobate Fair point from an NZ style of play. Different across other countries.
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@reprobate Fair point from an NZ style of play. Different across other countries.
@game_film said in England Vs All Blacks:
@reprobate Fair point from an NZ style of play. Different across other countries.
For sure, but I don't want us to play like them. Both because running rugby is why I love the game, and because I think it is the key to our success.
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@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:
@stodders said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:
@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:
This All Blacks team is screaming for some X-Factor on the wing.
For me that's Will Jordan. He really doesn't have the skills to be a Test 15.
Who does? I’m not convinced by Love (I think he is a 10). Who are the alternatives? NZ are crying out for the new Israel Dagg to make his appearance.
If you’re feeling sentimental and bored, rewatch the first 2017 lions test again. Dagg was genuinely unreal that game with his kicking and ability to tidy up shit ball. Amazing to think we had Mils, Dagg, Smith consecutively
Here's the thing, if you re-watch the 3rd test, Jordie Barrett's debut for the ABs, he was the best player on the field at fullback.
"Jordie Barrett 9
A kick mistake aside, fabulous on big stage debut. Scored try, helped make another, took bombs, even won two All Black kickoffs."And here's the other thing, Jordie is still in the team, and is an even better player than he was back then, and has the skillset to completely diffuse opposition bombs which are a key weakness for us right now. Jordie is so much better at 15 than Jordan it's not even funny.
But will the coaches even consider that? Highly unlikely, Jordan is their golden boy and they will play him at 15 come hell or high water, despite him offering so much more on the wing.
@No-Quarter no doubt he’s a better player now skill wise. His play at fullback was up and down, not unlike Jordan. I like Jordie in the midfield even more so when his brother is playing 10.
In my view the best fullback we’ve had in the last 10 years has been Beaudie.
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@No-Quarter no doubt he’s a better player now skill wise. His play at fullback was up and down, not unlike Jordan. I like Jordie in the midfield even more so when his brother is playing 10.
In my view the best fullback we’ve had in the last 10 years has been Beaudie.
@ACT-Crusader said in England Vs All Blacks:
In my view the best fullback we’ve had in the last 10 years has been Beaudie.
Which version of Beaudie? 2025 Beaudie?
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@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:
@stodders said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:
@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:
This All Blacks team is screaming for some X-Factor on the wing.
For me that's Will Jordan. He really doesn't have the skills to be a Test 15.
Who does? I’m not convinced by Love (I think he is a 10). Who are the alternatives? NZ are crying out for the new Israel Dagg to make his appearance.
If you’re feeling sentimental and bored, rewatch the first 2017 lions test again. Dagg was genuinely unreal that game with his kicking and ability to tidy up shit ball. Amazing to think we had Mils, Dagg, Smith consecutively
Here's the thing, if you re-watch the 3rd test, Jordie Barrett's debut for the ABs, he was the best player on the field at fullback.
"Jordie Barrett 9
A kick mistake aside, fabulous on big stage debut. Scored try, helped make another, took bombs, even won two All Black kickoffs."And here's the other thing, Jordie is still in the team, and is an even better player than he was back then, and has the skillset to completely diffuse opposition bombs which are a key weakness for us right now. Jordie is so much better at 15 than Jordan it's not even funny.
But will the coaches even consider that? Highly unlikely, Jordan is their golden boy and they will play him at 15 come hell or high water, despite him offering so much more on the wing.
@No-Quarter said in England Vs All Blacks:
@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:
@stodders said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:
@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:
This All Blacks team is screaming for some X-Factor on the wing.
For me that's Will Jordan. He really doesn't have the skills to be a Test 15.
Who does? I’m not convinced by Love (I think he is a 10). Who are the alternatives? NZ are crying out for the new Israel Dagg to make his appearance.
And here's the other thing, Jordie is still in the team, and is an even better player than he was back then, and has the skillset to completely diffuse opposition bombs which are a key weakness for us right now. Jordie is so much better at 15 than Jordan it's not even funny.
They've had Jordie in the backfield fielding bombs this year and he's dropped his fair share.
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@Chris-B "completely diffuse" is a bit of hyperbole on my part but he's easily our best under the high ball. As per my post in another thread, I don't like the way chasers are allowed to just jump up and slap it back without a genuine attempt to catch it, makes it unfair on the person fielding the kick.
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@Chris-B "completely diffuse" is a bit of hyperbole on my part but he's easily our best under the high ball. As per my post in another thread, I don't like the way chasers are allowed to just jump up and slap it back without a genuine attempt to catch it, makes it unfair on the person fielding the kick.
@No-Quarter the Saffas put alot of numbers in just as disruptors.
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@No-Quarter said in England Vs All Blacks:
@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:
@stodders said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:
@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:
This All Blacks team is screaming for some X-Factor on the wing.
For me that's Will Jordan. He really doesn't have the skills to be a Test 15.
Who does? I’m not convinced by Love (I think he is a 10). Who are the alternatives? NZ are crying out for the new Israel Dagg to make his appearance.
And here's the other thing, Jordie is still in the team, and is an even better player than he was back then, and has the skillset to completely diffuse opposition bombs which are a key weakness for us right now. Jordie is so much better at 15 than Jordan it's not even funny.
They've had Jordie in the backfield fielding bombs this year and he's dropped his fair share.
@Chris-B said in England Vs All Blacks:
@No-Quarter said in England Vs All Blacks:
@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:
@stodders said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:
@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:
This All Blacks team is screaming for some X-Factor on the wing.
For me that's Will Jordan. He really doesn't have the skills to be a Test 15.
Who does? I’m not convinced by Love (I think he is a 10). Who are the alternatives? NZ are crying out for the new Israel Dagg to make his appearance.
And here's the other thing, Jordie is still in the team, and is an even better player than he was back then, and has the skillset to completely diffuse opposition bombs which are a key weakness for us right now. Jordie is so much better at 15 than Jordan it's not even funny.
They've had Jordie in the backfield fielding bombs this year and he's dropped his fair share.
I watch most teams play, and yet to see a player take all high balls, whether chasing or receiving.
Also with noone beinge able to screen now, it makes it even harder. -
@Bones said in England Vs All Blacks:
@pakman said in England Vs All Blacks:
Wondering based on training coverage if Lord will get start with Farbian as super sub.
While I'm at it, Lord Farbian is surely a Blackadder character.
Nah, he was the short guy in Shrek
@voodoo said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Bones said in England Vs All Blacks:
@pakman said in England Vs All Blacks:
Wondering based on training coverage if Lord will get start with Farbian as super sub.
While I'm at it, Lord Farbian is surely a Blackadder character.
Nah, he was the short guy in Shrek
Well they had Blackadder's lord Percy in Shrek.
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@Chris-B "completely diffuse" is a bit of hyperbole on my part but he's easily our best under the high ball. As per my post in another thread, I don't like the way chasers are allowed to just jump up and slap it back without a genuine attempt to catch it, makes it unfair on the person fielding the kick.
@No-Quarter said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Chris-B "completely diffuse" is a bit of hyperbole on my part but he's easily our best under the high ball. As per my post in another thread, I don't like the way chasers are allowed to just jump up and slap it back without a genuine attempt to catch it, makes it unfair on the person fielding the kick.
It would be interesting to do a detailed season-wide analysis of catching high balls to verify who is best (and worst). Not just a raw score of catches and drops - but, looking at catches in traffic and outcomes compared with expected outcomes - some sort of rational scoring system and commentary.
Unfortunately, it would probably require "someone" to watch all the games again. Maybe he (or she!) can do it next year!
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@Chris-B that's not how I do things on the Fern, I base my analysis on vibes and feelings, and if someone corrects me with data I demand they be BANNED!
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@No-Quarter said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Chris-B "completely diffuse" is a bit of hyperbole on my part but he's easily our best under the high ball. As per my post in another thread, I don't like the way chasers are allowed to just jump up and slap it back without a genuine attempt to catch it, makes it unfair on the person fielding the kick.
It would be interesting to do a detailed season-wide analysis of catching high balls to verify who is best (and worst). Not just a raw score of catches and drops - but, looking at catches in traffic and outcomes compared with expected outcomes - some sort of rational scoring system and commentary.
Unfortunately, it would probably require "someone" to watch all the games again. Maybe he (or she!) can do it next year!
@Chris-B said in England Vs All Blacks:
@No-Quarter said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Chris-B "completely diffuse" is a bit of hyperbole on my part but he's easily our best under the high ball. As per my post in another thread, I don't like the way chasers are allowed to just jump up and slap it back without a genuine attempt to catch it, makes it unfair on the person fielding the kick.
It would be interesting to do a detailed season-wide analysis of catching high balls to verify who is best (and worst). Not just a raw score of catches and drops - but, looking at catches in traffic and outcomes compared with expected outcomes - some sort of rational scoring system and commentary.
Unfortunately, it would probably require "someone" to watch all the games again. Maybe he (or she!) can do it next year!
No need, 3 groups.
Clarke is best, Jordie a close 2nd.
Then McKenzie, then Beauden, then Jordan.
Then Ioane, Carter and Reece.Our main problem though is that the other teams kicks are far more contestable than ours, and their attacking chase and defence of are better organised.
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@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:
This All Blacks team is screaming for some X-Factor on the wing.
For me that's Will Jordan. He really doesn't have the skills to be a Test 15.
@Victor-Meldrew I could get in behind that... but not sure Love is the superstar fullback to offset it.
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@Chris-B said in England Vs All Blacks:
@No-Quarter said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Chris-B "completely diffuse" is a bit of hyperbole on my part but he's easily our best under the high ball. As per my post in another thread, I don't like the way chasers are allowed to just jump up and slap it back without a genuine attempt to catch it, makes it unfair on the person fielding the kick.
It would be interesting to do a detailed season-wide analysis of catching high balls to verify who is best (and worst). Not just a raw score of catches and drops - but, looking at catches in traffic and outcomes compared with expected outcomes - some sort of rational scoring system and commentary.
Unfortunately, it would probably require "someone" to watch all the games again. Maybe he (or she!) can do it next year!
No need, 3 groups.
Clarke is best, Jordie a close 2nd.
Then McKenzie, then Beauden, then Jordan.
Then Ioane, Carter and Reece.Our main problem though is that the other teams kicks are far more contestable than ours, and their attacking chase and defence of are better organised.
@reprobate I jotted down the kick results for Boks 1.
They were quite a lot different to that, but one game has very little statistical value.
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