England Vs All Blacks
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@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:
I am not entirely against the selection of Parker, but I find it interesting that on the face of things, they totally dropped him from the 23 last week, and then have brought him straight back into the starting XV this week.
I think that was both a horses for courses and rotation approach - always expected Parker to be back this week, was just a question of who would drop to the pine.
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@Chris-B said in England Vs All Blacks:
It would be interesting to do a detailed season-wide analysis of catching high balls to verify who is best (and worst). Not just a raw score of catches and drops - but, looking at catches in traffic and outcomes compared with expected outcomes - some sort of rational scoring system and commentary.
Unfortunately, it would probably require "someone" to watch all the games again. Maybe he (or she!) can do it next year!
That sounds like an awful lot of work for whoever you’re referring to.
Anyways, speaking of unpaid labour and the exploitation of the working class, this whole high ball-discussion reminds me of a recent Gary’s Economics-video where he’s talking about the rising housing prices. He makes the point that everyone thinks their specific city has a housing crisis while, in reality, it’s a global issue, necessitated by the growing inequality between the ultrarich and the working poor. [Just in case I happened to have piqued someone’s interest, this is the video I’m referring to: youtube.co/watch?v=BTlUyS-T-_4]
I think a similar misconception is at work in the high ball-discussion. The reality is that it’s not just the All Blacks who are experiencing a high ball-crisis. All teams are currently struggling with defensive kick receipts: Welsh fans are about ready to lynch Blair Murray, Freddie Steward shelled multiple high balls against the Wallabies on the 1st of November, Tom Wright didn’t catch a single attacking bomb against the Boks at Ellis Park, and, for the All Blacks XV, 6ft3 Chay Fihaki couldn’t deal with the England A aerials. Whether you're a tall high ball-expert or a scrumcapped Bok midget, the results will most likely be the same: you're going to drop more balls than you're going to catch.
Right now, if your halfback has a solid kicking game, chances are you’re going to be handsomely rewarded for going to the boot. Quietly, box-kicking 9s have been making a clear comeback: Nic White was crucial for the Wallaby success against both the Lions and the Boks, Reinach’s contestable kicking has been instrumental in the post-Eden Park Bok resurgence, and someone like Ben Spencer, the 33-year old Bath halfback, has suddenly become an important piece within the English attacking puzzle.
Galthié has already been criticized for quite a few selection errors against the Springboks but arguably his biggest one was selecting Le Garrec ahead of Maxime Lucu. Le Garrec’s kicks were consistently too deep at the Stade de France which gave the Boks backfield breathing space. Whenever the kicks were on the money, there was little that Kolbe, Willemse and Arendse could do against the French chasers.
Anyway, all of this to say that this isn’t something uniquely pertinent to the All Blacks alone. But where the ABs have been lacking, I think, is in those moments right before and after high balls. What the ABs need to do, more than anything else, is work on their defensive retreat and make sure that any spilt ball from the high ball is cleaned up.
This will be especially critical against England. The English chasers have very little interest in actually catching the ball: they will aim to flood the receipt space with their band of chasing wingers/flankers, making sure that the AB back 3 can’t catch cleanly. After that, they can either (1) attack the space behind themselves (see Pollock try against Wallabies) or (2) release the ball to a backline that is already expertly aligned by George Ford and ready to pounce.
So in my view, while the catch is obviously important, it’s only the first step. What is as crucial, if not more, is the collective coordination both before and immediately after the catch. The AB backline will need to match the speed of English realignment and get off the line, making sure that England don’t have the clean width of the field to attack in these kinds of situations.
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@Mauss said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Chris-B said in England Vs All Blacks:
It would be interesting to do a detailed season-wide analysis of catching high balls to verify who is best (and worst). Not just a raw score of catches and drops - but, looking at catches in traffic and outcomes compared with expected outcomes - some sort of rational scoring system and commentary.
Unfortunately, it would probably require "someone" to watch all the games again. Maybe he (or she!) can do it next year!
That sounds like an awful lot of work for whoever you’re referring to.
Anyways, speaking of unpaid labour and the exploitation of the working class, this whole high ball-discussion reminds me of a recent Gary’s Economics-video where he’s talking about the rising housing prices. He makes the point that everyone thinks their specific city has a housing crisis while, in reality, it’s a global issue, necessitated by the growing inequality between the ultrarich and the working poor. [Just in case I happened to have piqued someone’s interest, this is the video I’m referring to: youtube.co/watch?v=BTlUyS-T-_4]
I think a similar misconception is at work in the high ball-discussion. The reality is that it’s not just the All Blacks who are experiencing a high ball-crisis. All teams are currently struggling with defensive kick receipts: Welsh fans are about ready to lynch Blair Murray, Freddie Steward shelled multiple high balls against the Wallabies on the 1st of November, Tom Wright didn’t catch a single attacking bomb against the Boks at Ellis Park, and, for the All Blacks XV, 6ft3 Chay Fihaki couldn’t deal with the England A aerials. Whether you're a tall high ball-expert or a scrumcapped Bok midget, the results will most likely be the same: you're going to drop more balls than you're going to catch.
Right now, if your halfback has a solid kicking game, chances are you’re going to be handsomely rewarded for going to the boot. Quietly, box-kicking 9s have been making a clear comeback: Nic White was crucial for the Wallaby success against both the Lions and the Boks, Reinach’s contestable kicking has been instrumental in the post-Eden Park Bok resurgence, and someone like Ben Spencer, the 33-year old Bath halfback, has suddenly become an important piece within the English attacking puzzle.
Galthié has already been criticized for quite a few selection errors against the Springboks but arguably his biggest one was selecting Le Garrec ahead of Maxime Lucu. Le Garrec’s kicks were consistently too deep at the Stade de France which gave the Boks backfield breathing space. Whenever the kicks were on the money, there was little that Kolbe, Willemse and Arendse could do against the French chasers.
Anyway, all of this to say that this isn’t something uniquely pertinent to the All Blacks alone. But where the ABs have been lacking, I think, is in those moments right before and after high balls. What the ABs need to do, more than anything else, is work on their defensive retreat and make sure that any spilt ball from the high ball is cleaned up.
This will be especially critical against England. The English chasers have very little interest in actually catching the ball: they will aim to flood the receipt space with their band of chasing wingers/flankers, making sure that the AB back 3 can’t catch cleanly. After that, they can either (1) attack the space behind themselves (see Pollock try against Wallabies) or (2) release the ball to a backline that is already expertly aligned by George Ford and ready to pounce.
So in my view, while the catch is obviously important, it’s only the first step. What is as crucial, if not more, is the collective coordination both before and immediately after the catch. The AB backline will need to match the speed of English realignment and get off the line, making sure that England don’t have the clean width of the field to attack in these kinds of situations.
Don't disagree with any of that
But it would also be great to select players who can catch
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Last November
What happened to Tele'a?
That's the 'X Factor' you're missing. His finish for his second try was easily as impressive as DMac's last weekend. He beat three defenders who were in position to tackle him not lunging for him.
And how easy was Jordan's untouched run-in when BB attacks the line keeping the defence guessing?
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@Grooter said in England Vs All Blacks:
Anton being selected in our national team ruffles my feathers, two of his most recent games of rugby he got bullied by the Stags 12 Peni & under the roof in Dunedin against otago he looked like he was running in mud, it sounds like I have an agenda sure but I just don't think he's as good as he was 5 even 2 years ago
Great servant. Been mucked about endlessly but really should have been asked to retire with grace.
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@pakman said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Mauss There's a very strong argument that rising house prices in 'desirable' places are linked globally to a plague of planning and health and safety regulations. In other words a supply problem.
So kind of like a Weberian analysis where an overly rationalized society, enabled by a strict division of labour, produces an overly rigid bureaucracy that restricts the demand-oriented flow of resources?
Or, to put it in rugby terms: that would be like a coaching team focusing on incredibly specific skills – say, I don’t know, falling offloads? – due to a highly rationalized training schedule, rather than allocate time and energy to an immediate, very obvious issue at hand, like, just to give an example, high ball-reception?
I don’t know. That just doesn’t sound very plausible to me.
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@Mauss said in England Vs All Blacks:
@pakman said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Mauss There's a very strong argument that rising house prices in 'desirable' places are linked globally to a plague of planning and health and safety regulations. In other words a supply problem.
So kind of like a Weberian analysis where an overly rationalized society, enabled by a strict division of labour, produces an overly rigid bureaucracy that restricts the demand-oriented flow of resources?
Or, to put it in rugby terms: that would be like a coaching team focusing on incredibly specific skills – say, I don’t know, falling offloads? – due to a highly rationalized training schedule, rather than allocate time and energy to an immediate, very obvious issue at hand, like, just to give an example, high ball-reception?
I don’t know. That just doesn’t sound very plausible to me.
There's a correlation (at least in the US) between 'desirability' of location and the ease of blocking new buildings. Homelessness is more evident in affluent cities (than poorer ones), for example.
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@pakman said in England Vs All Blacks:
There's a correlation (at least in the US) between 'desirability' of location and the ease of blocking new buildings. Homelessness is more evident in affluent cities (than poorer ones), for example.
I really need to work on my joke delivery.
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On form S Barrett is a world class lock, but we haven't seen it for awhile. I'm ok with him playing, but if doesn't perform, then it has to be time to look at other options, as the other locks are looking better than him now.
ALB is a bit of a joke, my memories of now are coming on and getting carded, I understand we need coverage at 12, but there has to be a better solution. If he comes on, tries too hard and gives away a card again then he has to go.
I would keep developing LF at 13, he is the only 13 in recent memory to look threatening. Line breaks at 13 have been very few and far between. Procter was the form Super player at 13, but it has not translated to test for some reason.
Otherwise I think its about the team we all expected. -
@KiwiMurph said in England Vs All Blacks:
ALB sucks as a bench option
Gets a bench spot
Make it make sense....
Sack the clown.
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@Mauss said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Chris-B said in England Vs All Blacks:
It would be interesting to do a detailed season-wide analysis of catching high balls to verify who is best (and worst). Not just a raw score of catches and drops - but, looking at catches in traffic and outcomes compared with expected outcomes - some sort of rational scoring system and commentary.
Unfortunately, it would probably require "someone" to watch all the games again. Maybe he (or she!) can do it next year!
That sounds like an awful lot of work for whoever you’re referring to.
I think a similar misconception is at work in the high ball-discussion. The reality is that it’s not just the All Blacks who are experiencing a high ball-crisis. All teams are currently struggling with defensive kick receipts: Welsh fans are about ready to lynch Blair Murray, Freddie Steward shelled multiple high balls against the Wallabies on the 1st of November, Tom Wright didn’t catch a single attacking bomb against the Boks at Ellis Park, and, for the All Blacks XV, 6ft3 Chay Fihaki couldn’t deal with the England A aerials. Whether you're a tall high ball-expert or a scrumcapped Bok midget, the results will most likely be the same: you're going to drop more balls than you're going to catch.
Right now, if your halfback has a solid kicking game, chances are you’re going to be handsomely rewarded for going to the boot. Quietly, box-kicking 9s have been making a clear comeback: Nic White was crucial for the Wallaby success against both the Lions and the Boks, Reinach’s contestable kicking has been instrumental in the post-Eden Park Bok resurgence, and someone like Ben Spencer, the 33-year old Bath halfback, has suddenly become an important piece within the English attacking puzzle.
Galthié has already been criticized for quite a few selection errors against the Springboks but arguably his biggest one was selecting Le Garrec ahead of Maxime Lucu. Le Garrec’s kicks were consistently too deep at the Stade de France which gave the Boks backfield breathing space. Whenever the kicks were on the money, there was little that Kolbe, Willemse and Arendse could do against the French chasers.
This seems to chime with your analysis:
Check out Penaud's kick chase!
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I think I would have had reiko on the bench to give the option of putting leister back in the midfield if required
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@pakman said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Mauss I should have clocked that from the Gary Stevenson reference!
I like him. Not so much as an economist per se. More as a sort of modern-day court jester. He’s like a character that’s jumped out of Brant’s Das Narrenschiff, a beautiful, bat-eared clown in these increasingly feudalistic times.
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@Jet said in England Vs All Blacks:
@KiwiMurph said in England Vs All Blacks:
ALB sucks as a bench option
Gets a bench spot
Make it make sense....
Sack the clown.
I not surprised ALB on bench, I not sure they want to risk having to run either Proctor or LF at 12, mainly for defensive reasons?
