England v All Blacks
-
@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
Mils has it. We have some great players. But we continue to be inconsistent in the same areas. I think he's saying the fault is with Razor without saying it. Goldie is chiming in too, saying we aren't playing what's in front of us. Mils and Goldie are gutted, Taylah Johnson is the pitch side interviewer who notes how many of the players don't seem that gutted to lose the way she expected them to
THe losing margin would be in the top 10 in All Black history.
-
@KiwiMurph said in England Vs All Blacks:
@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Canes4life said in England Vs All Blacks:
Who does everyone want to see start at 10 next week for Beau-Done Barrett?
I think it’s time to give Ruben some love. We don’t learn anything starting DMac.
I don't want Love exposed to starting. DMac to start, Reuben to get at least 30 minutes at either 10 or as a 15 double pivot. The boy needs to play, and 15 should be just as up for grabs as 10. WJ can move to wing and be effective
Worried about exposed to starting? Against Wales? Has conservative Razor infiltrated your account?
Hahaha. He's barely had any rugby, he's shown promise for the Canes at 10.
-
@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
@KiwiMurph said in England Vs All Blacks:
@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Canes4life said in England Vs All Blacks:
Who does everyone want to see start at 10 next week for Beau-Done Barrett?
I think it’s time to give Ruben some love. We don’t learn anything starting DMac.
I don't want Love exposed to starting. DMac to start, Reuben to get at least 30 minutes at either 10 or as a 15 double pivot. The boy needs to play, and 15 should be just as up for grabs as 10. WJ can move to wing and be effective
Worried about exposed to starting? Against Wales? Has conservative Razor infiltrated your account?
Hahaha. He's barely had any rugby, he's shown promise for the Canes at 10.
You would hope that the Board will be asking him for an explanation as to why Love was not given more game time. It's ridiculous not to build depth in a position where the three guys that you are pinning your hopes on are all in their 30s.
-
@DasBoot said in England Vs All Blacks:
BB, SB, Savea time to move on. Time to rebuild before it gets worse. Passengers like ALB and a few others need to finish up too.
Build a team around Roigard as Captain and take it from there and weed out the rest over the next year.
Parker, Proctor and possibly even Carter haven't stepped up unfortunately.
Front row and locks mostly ok.
Find a safe old school no.10 and look for flair elsewhere. Midfield is tough, no one standing out.He's playing in Europe. We have some good loosies playing or about to play overseas as well...
-
All Blacks have regressed so badly since 2019. 2021 and 2022 were mediocre years.
2023 despite making the RWC final was masked by the fact we played a Ireland team in the quarter finals who were cooked and past their best.
Razor should be sacked along with his fraudulent yes men assistants.
Winning starts in the front office and hopefully Kirk and co hire the right person this time and not a useless fluffy bunny like Mark Robinson.
All Blacks nowadays are more worried about corporate stuff than actually winning rugby games.
On the performance, Beauden should pull the pin, disaster class with the kicking was totally outplayed by Ford. Scott Barrett should be moved on as captain and hopefully one of Hotham, Pledger or Fakatava step up next year so we don't see Ratima on the bench.
I'd make Codie Taylor the captain with Roigard as the vice captain.
DMac 10 with Ruben Love as the impact sub covering 10 and 15. Lack of depth at 10 across NZ rugby is very concerning. Never seen 10 depth is limited as is it right now and need Reihana to go to a another level next year in Super Rugby along with Jacomb and Millar.
-
And, to tie it all together, we don't have a clear system of play.
I believe it all started going downhill once the control of play was handed over to players who rely on seeing 'pictures' and 'opportunities'. There is a lot of fake-looking space on a rugby field, especially against a rush defense, and these guys can't get themselves out of the shit once they get in it because they don't have systems to fall back on.
I'm reminded of how military battles have been won by careful planning where all parties know what to do and when to do it - NCOs and soldiers themselves are entrusted to make decisions, but everyone is aligned on strategy and tactics. The ABs haven't really played with a strong strategic hand for quite some time - although it did improve once Schmidt joined and nearly helped us steal the WC.
I wonder whether we need a modern AB rugby version of Major General Sir Leslie Morshead - an absolute pain in the ass who drilled his men relentlessly in a strategic pattern until they could respond automatically and win using their individual skills without his of officer's instruction.
Who in Razor's team has that role? If everyone is turning responsibility to the players, that only works if they are prepared enough and there is sufficient clarity.
-
@BerniesCorner said in England Vs All Blacks:
The obvious hard calls are:
BB retires,
Taylor becomes captain,
Roigard vice captain,
Jordan goes to wing,
I'd put JB at 15
QT, LF mid field,
DMac 10 and kicksArdie goes to bench.
-
@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
@KiwiMurph said in England Vs All Blacks:
@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Canes4life said in England Vs All Blacks:
Who does everyone want to see start at 10 next week for Beau-Done Barrett?
I think it’s time to give Ruben some love. We don’t learn anything starting DMac.
I don't want Love exposed to starting. DMac to start, Reuben to get at least 30 minutes at either 10 or as a 15 double pivot. The boy needs to play, and 15 should be just as up for grabs as 10. WJ can move to wing and be effective
Worried about exposed to starting? Against Wales? Has conservative Razor infiltrated your account?
Hahaha. He's barely had any rugby, he's shown promise for the Canes at 10.
No shit, Razor hasn’t selected him.
-
@KiwiMurph said in England Vs All Blacks:
@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Canes4life said in England Vs All Blacks:
Who does everyone want to see start at 10 next week for Beau-Done Barrett?
I think it’s time to give Ruben some love. We don’t learn anything starting DMac.
I don't want Love exposed to starting. DMac to start, Reuben to get at least 30 minutes at either 10 or as a 15 double pivot. The boy needs to play, and 15 should be just as up for grabs as 10. WJ can move to wing and be effective
Worried about exposed to starting? Against Wales? Has conservative Razor infiltrated your account?
Fozzie used to do stuff like that. Put a reserve on to start with a bunch of other reserves, and watch them fail
-
@gt12 said in England Vs All Blacks:
And, to tie it all together, we don't have a clear system of play.
I believe it all started going downhill once the control of play was handed over to players who rely on seeing 'pictures' and 'opportunities'. There is a lot of fake-looking space on a rugby field, especially against a rush defense, and these guys can't get themselves out of the shit once they get in it because they don't have systems to fall back on.
I'm reminded of how military battles have been won by careful planning where all parties know what to do and when to do it - NCOs and soldiers themselves are entrusted to make decisions, but everyone is aligned on strategy and tactics. The ABs haven't really played with a strong strategic hand for quite some time - although it did improve once Schmidt joined and nearly helped us steal the WC.
I wonder whether we need a modern AB rugby version of Major General Sir Leslie Morshead - an absolute pain in the ass who drilled his men relentlessly in a strategic pattern until they could respond automatically and win using their individual skills without his of officer's instruction.
Who in Razor's team has that role? If everyone is turning responsibility to the players, that only works if they are prepared enough and there is sufficient clarity.
And yet, sometimes we seem to be very rigid, failing to see and take advantage of opportunities that arise during open play. It's all very puzzling
-
-
LF for me has been very much hit and miss. He does make things happen but he is also a very slopply player in defence, in his handling, and in his discipline. He's arguably the most inaccurate back in the squad. I think whether good outweighs the bad is up for debate.
-
Knew the result, read the thread, then watched the game. Blimey. Never seen a more apathetic AB team. England dominated the entire game. Won nearly every contact, ABs constantly beaten in the tackle and at the breakdown. Wow. ABs don’t look fit enough - lazy off the ball, can’t remember ever saying that before.
12-0 down but still felt like we were the better side. Ben Earl was immense, Pepper was great. But it wasn’t about individuals, they won every aspect of the game, contact after contact.
As for England, they still don’t look great structure wise but bugger me they smashed the ABs all over the park.
-
@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:
Knew the result, read the thread, then watched the game. Blimey. Never seen a more apathetic AB team. England dominated the entire game. Won nearly every contact, ABs constantly beaten in the tackle and at the breakdown. Wow. ABs don’t look fit enough - lazy off the ball, can’t remember ever saying that before.
12-0 down but still felt like we were the better side. Ben Earl was immense, Pepper was great. But it wasn’t about individuals, they won every aspect of the game, contact after contact.
As for England, they still don’t look great structure wise but bugger me they smashed the ABs all over the park.
Enjoy the win mate, your boys deserved it
-
@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:
Knew the result, read the thread, then watched the game. Blimey. Never seen a more apathetic AB team. England dominated the entire game. Won nearly every contact, ABs constantly beaten in the tackle and at the breakdown. Wow. ABs don’t look fit enough - lazy off the ball, can’t remember ever saying that before.
12-0 down but still felt like we were the better side. Ben Earl was immense, Pepper was great. But it wasn’t about individuals, they won every aspect of the game, contact after contact.
While I take your point generally, Englands lineout was woeful and any half decent team could have won the game on their lineout failure alone.
-
I am feeling quite disillusioned with the game right now.
Every time there is a highly anticipated test between Tier 1 sides, I am paranoid that it will be marred by cards that change the course of the game. And more often than not, that is what is happening these days, and it makes for a terrible product.
When you send a player from the field in a game like rugby, arguably the most physically demanding sport in the world, you fundamentally change the trajectory of the match. And for at least 95% of those matches, you change it in favour of the team that ends up with the numerical advantage, which is just self evident.
For this match, my point is not that the ABs would have won if it wasn't for that completely insane YC to Taylor, lord knows this current AB side have well documented (on here at least) issues with coaching, selection and poor periods of play. It's that the ref fundamentally changed the course of the game with that decision, so we simply don't know what the outcome would have been if it had been left to the players to decide. I'm sorry but that's a horseshit product to watch.
The first half was wonderful; England came out of the blocks at a million miles per hour, we weathered the storm then went bang bang in typical AB fashion to take the lead. Then some silly mistakes from the ABs allowed England the opportunity to get back into the match, which they took in superb English fashion with some beautifully executed drop goals to get back within a point. That was a great half of footy to watch and I couldn't wait for half time to be over to see how it played out in the 2nd 40.
Then what happens? The ref and TMO completely ruin the game by sending Codie off the field, making us play a man down for 10 minutes. That's a BIG deal in a game like rugby at the top level, and England made us pay for that by scoring 14 unanswered points and taking all of the momentum (which is hugely important in a dynamic game like rugby).
If they are going to continue to use cards in this way, then it has to be an absolute last resort. Genuine thuggish behaviour, constant cheating at every ruck (far more than what England got a YC for), but really, there just has to be a better way doesn't there? Could they not look at how other sports do it? Administering appropriate punishment to thuggish behaviour or constant cheating without completely ruining the spectacle?
As soon as that YC was given I actually just switched it off in disgust. Yet another fucking game ruined by card obsessed officials. Then I decided to watch to the end just to see if England would choke or not, and to their credit they played very well in the 2nd 40 to close the match out despite their own YC. England are my second team so I am not upset to see them do well, but the game became pretty meaningless to me post the YC as the ref had completely changed the course of the match, again.
I got up at 4am to watch a ref fuck up what was a wonderful game of rugby. I can obviously live with refs making mistakes, that's part and parcel of being human refereeing a fast paced game. But when those mistakes include sending a player from the field, it ruins the game.
I will not be getting up for the Welsh test, and in fact I think I am going to take some time out from watching and commenting on rugby. Nice timing for me with the cricket season starting, but I am just about done with this game until they sort out this absolute mess with cards.
