England v All Blacks
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@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Jet said in England Vs All Blacks:
Keep in mind Codie got a yellow, for our first penalty in the game. Near the halfway line.
Blatant red if you ask me
The foul play TMO says that will cost you a gold watch...
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@ACT-Crusader said in England Vs All Blacks:
@sparky said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Tim Nope. That was 2012.
Nooo that must be some AI. That says the ABs had Jane and Nonu, Conrad and McCaw, Mealamu and Whitelock. And this was Hansen basically photocopying Henry’s playbook. I thought they were ruthless and calm and well coached.
Tuilagi and Barrit ripped us a new one that night.
TBF that was a one off extremely bad performance that is still talked about today because of how inept we were (especially at defending the overstayer). Whereas today's performance is not even the worst of this season.
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@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:
Knew the result, read the thread, then watched the game. Blimey. Never seen a more apathetic AB team. England dominated the entire game. Won nearly every contact, ABs constantly beaten in the tackle and at the breakdown. Wow. ABs don’t look fit enough - lazy off the ball, can’t remember ever saying that before.
12-0 down but still felt like we were the better side. Ben Earl was immense, Pepper was great. But it wasn’t about individuals, they won every aspect of the game, contact after contact.
As for England, they still don’t look great structure wise but bugger me they smashed the ABs all over the park.
Absolutely agree. England were on top, we had two good minutes, and then England got back on top. Easily the better side.
I really like Earl he's a ripper. -
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@KiwiMurph said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:
Aside from QT in one test no 13 has shown they're decisively a better option than Rieko.
Almost like they should have kept QT at 13.....
He played well. LF is error prone. I want to see Cam, DMac, JB and QT as the spine of our backline.
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@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:
Also, pointing out inconsistent and problematic card decisions is not bitterness. Commenting and criticising on all aspects of a match is the lifeblood of this forum and the majority of it is directed at our players and coaches - any poster who thinks otherwise is not paying attention. Suggesting we reserve our criticism of contentious reffing decisions because our team lost is fucking stupid.
I’m going to go out on a limb and assume this is aimed at me. If not, you can ignore the rest of this message. I didn’t say pointing out a yellow isn’t a yellow isn’t ok, i didn’t say you couldn’t criticise the decision. I didn’t even disagree that it wasn’t a yellow. I said it didn’t ruin (and would add, didn’t decide) the game.
If that's the case then you should have just said you disagreed with @No-Quarter's reading of the decision instead of adding in your final sentence.
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@KiwiMurph said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:
Aside from QT in one test no 13 has shown they're decisively a better option than Rieko.
Almost like they should have kept QT at 13.....
Except we don't have any other 12's at the moment. Usually injuries have worked out for Razor in improving the team, in this case it didn't as once JB was out we can only really move QT back.
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@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:
@KiwiMurph said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:
Aside from QT in one test no 13 has shown they're decisively a better option than Rieko.
Almost like they should have kept QT at 13.....
Except we don't have any other 12's at the moment. Usually injuries have worked out for Razor in improving the team, in this case it didn't as once JB was out we can only really move QT back.
Couldn't Lester play 12? And just truck it up?
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@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:
Also, pointing out inconsistent and problematic card decisions is not bitterness. Commenting and criticising on all aspects of a match is the lifeblood of this forum and the majority of it is directed at our players and coaches - any poster who thinks otherwise is not paying attention. Suggesting we reserve our criticism of contentious reffing decisions because our team lost is fucking stupid.
I’m going to go out on a limb and assume this is aimed at me. If not, you can ignore the rest of this message. I didn’t say pointing out a yellow isn’t a yellow isn’t ok, i didn’t say you couldn’t criticise the decision. I didn’t even disagree that it wasn’t a yellow. I said it didn’t ruin (and would add, didn’t decide) the game.
I never said it decided the match, you keep trying to strawman me and bait me which is why I am struggling to engage with you on this. I said a simple mistake from the ref changed the course of the match, which makes for a shit product and for me, ruins it. We want the players to change the course of matches through pieces of brilliance etc, not mistakes from the ref.
In cricket, they use the technology to reduce the impact of umpiring mistakes. It's the exact opposite in rugby.
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@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:
@KiwiMurph said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:
Aside from QT in one test no 13 has shown they're decisively a better option than Rieko.
Almost like they should have kept QT at 13.....
Except we don't have any other 12's at the moment. Usually injuries have worked out for Razor in improving the team, in this case it didn't as once JB was out we can only really move QT back.
Couldn't Lester play 12? And just truck it up?
Has he played much 12?
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@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:
@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:
@KiwiMurph said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:
Aside from QT in one test no 13 has shown they're decisively a better option than Rieko.
Almost like they should have kept QT at 13.....
Except we don't have any other 12's at the moment. Usually injuries have worked out for Razor in improving the team, in this case it didn't as once JB was out we can only really move QT back.
Couldn't Lester play 12? And just truck it up?
Has he played much 12?
He played 12 during NPC. Looked good. When Jordie got injured I thought they would put Leicester at 12 but nope....
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@KiwiMurph said in England Vs All Blacks:
@brodean said in England Vs All Blacks:
LF for me has been very much hit and miss. He does make things happen but he is also a very slopply player in defence, in his handling, and in his discipline. He's arguably the most inaccurate back in the squad. I think whether good outweighs the bad is up for debate.
Because of how Razor has picked the squad - the alternatives dont offer much. Reece, Rieko and ALB are all past it. Which begs the question why they are in the squad at all.
Well then Razor and co need to do a better job selecting the squad. The squad selections have been rubbish.
For me the following should be gone:
- Parker <- Sotutu/Flanders
- Jacobson <- Papali'i
- Kirifi <- Flanders/CLW
- Ratima <- Fakatava
- Christie <- Preston
- ALB <- Ennor/Lam
- Reece <- ENS/Tangitau
- Carter <- ENS/Tangitau
- Beauden Barrett <- Reihana
I'd dump Barrett completely. It's no coincidence the Blues won their SR TT title and SRP title when he was away in Japan.
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@Jet said in England Vs All Blacks:
Keep in mind Codie got a yellow, for our first penalty in the game. Near the halfway line.
I thought it was harsh but we shouldn't have allowed the game to get away from us. We had already started to let the game get away from us. We had one good first quarter and the rest was garbage.
I always thought that there would be question marks about how Robertson's Super success would translate to test level because his players wouldn't be allowed to get away with the same level of shenanigans they got away with at Super level.
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@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:
@ACT-Crusader said in England Vs All Blacks:
@sparky said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Tim Nope. That was 2012.
Nooo that must be some AI. That says the ABs had Jane and Nonu, Conrad and McCaw, Mealamu and Whitelock. And this was Hansen basically photocopying Henry’s playbook. I thought they were ruthless and calm and well coached.
Tuilagi and Barrit ripped us a new one that night.
TBF that was a one off extremely bad performance that is still talked about today because of how inept we were (especially at defending the overstayer). Whereas today's performance is not even the worst of this season.
Didnt most of our team have a dose of the shits?
Norovirus.
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@booboo said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Gunner said in England Vs All Blacks:
Beauden Barrett, not once but twice, fucking TWICE missing touch
In BB's defence it was ONCE ... (once too many). Roigard fucked up the second one.
Which points of the fact BB was injured, and should have been hooked.
In fact both were carrying injuries through the first half, dont know if Roigards ankle was already gone when that second missed touch finder took place. I think we all agree Roigard more important to stay on the field than BB if he could . Yes BB should have been hooked.
Razor mentions in a post match speech that a few were carrying injuries into the half time break.
...he also said lots of changes next week
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@bayimports said in England Vs All Blacks:
@booboo said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Gunner said in England Vs All Blacks:
Beauden Barrett, not once but twice, fucking TWICE missing touch
In BB's defence it was ONCE ... (once too many). Roigard fucked up the second one.
Which points of the fact BB was injured, and should have been hooked.
In fact both were carrying injuries through the first half, dont know if Roigards ankle was already gone when that second missed touch finder took place. I think we all agree Roigard more important to stay on the field than BB if he could . Yes BB should have been hooked.
Razor mentions says in a post match speech that a few were carrying injuries into the half time break.
...he also said lots of changes next week
In other words pour all the reserves on and watch them flounder
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Not going to add to much as we were beaten well and truly from pillar to post from a team who looked much better for eighty minutes through the middle. On the few chances we had where we did look to create space we were arguably better at that and our defensive lineouts in the first half were outstanding. However our passive attack and defense for the rest was awful.
When we did have controlled phase ball we would generally only make 5 meters in 5-10 hit ups. Players often in each others way and was hard work to get the half break. Just an awful watch
On the other hand England hit it up with pace often which was irritating to watch, when your team should be capable to do so, but fails.
Interestingly we had been resting some of our loosies through rotation but arguably Ardie should have been rested for more mins in previous games, as not for the first time this year looked off top speed. He was not the only one who looked gassed , but if ever there was a time you want the highlight reel to shine and inspire his troops, that would have been it.
Well done England.
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@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
@bayimports said in England Vs All Blacks:
@booboo said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Gunner said in England Vs All Blacks:
Beauden Barrett, not once but twice, fucking TWICE missing touch
In BB's defence it was ONCE ... (once too many). Roigard fucked up the second one.
Which points of the fact BB was injured, and should have been hooked.
In fact both were carrying injuries through the first half, dont know if Roigards ankle was already gone when that second missed touch finder took place. I think we all agree Roigard more important to stay on the field than BB if he could . Yes BB should have been hooked.
Razor mentions says in a post match speech that a few were carrying injuries into the half time break.
...he also said lots of changes next week
In other words pour all the reserves on and watch them flounder
apparently was always part of his master plan...
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I think our worst actual problem is how passive and completely choreographed our attack is.
It is so bad it is quite shocking. We have some of the most talented players on the planet (we 100% do, the deserving starters at least) and we are effectively playing with one arm tied behind our backs.
I genuinely had huge optimism for Robertson because I had always thought he was an innovative and thoughtful analyst of the game who could understand these patterns, and how possession matters.
But we genuinely play as if we are taking possession for granted. Just useless nothing one off runners, you can see the players are not playing what's in front of them but are actually falling to the ground pre-tackle to set up the next phase in their 'plan'. The embarrassing 'pod' system, having some of the worst handlers in the team (like Scott Barrett) handle the ball every time we are hot on attack and looking to go wide? REALLY?!
And as for heads up play, Roigard is our best player because he's one of the very few who actually still plays heads up. He actually plays what's in front of him and is therefore extremely unpredictable.
Also hilarious that Fainganuku has been one of the more impressive players on attack because he also is playing heads up rugby and thinking on the spot. The rest of our team doesn't do that. So so so predictable and easy to defend.
And when your attack is that pedestrian, the opposing team gets more opportunities to attack you back. So I'm not surprised at all to see us concede more than in previous years and struggle with cards (teams are primarily carded when under defensive pressure).
