England v All Blacks
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@antipodean said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Tim said in England Vs All Blacks:
See if you can spot a loose forward in these pictures ... Savea stands way off the ruck and looks disinterested. Terrible openside. Absolutely shithouse selection
Because he only wants to carry the ball or pretend to be a five-eighth. He's the softest loose forward I've ever seen.
We've got BB doing chip kicks for him (when he's not trying them himself from our line). Now admittedly I'm not privy to the training numbers, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say I reckon Jordan or Carter might have a bit more gas.
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@antipodean said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Tim said in England Vs All Blacks:
See if you can spot a loose forward in these pictures ... Savea stands way off the ruck and looks disinterested. Terrible openside. Absolutely shithouse selection
Because he only wants to carry the ball or pretend to be a five-eighth. He's the softest loose forward I've ever seen.
but, but the leg drive!! beast mode!! And that one breakdown steal a game where he gets up looking staunch as fuck!! Amazing player.
The part of his game that fucks me off is he will often pick the worst possible time for a pick and go, killing opportunity, and often making no yards because he trips over the obvious obstacles that SHOULD have meant he didn't take it on. I am so over his state of play.
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@mariner4life said in England Vs All Blacks:
@antipodean said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Tim said in England Vs All Blacks:
See if you can spot a loose forward in these pictures ... Savea stands way off the ruck and looks disinterested. Terrible openside. Absolutely shithouse selection
Because he only wants to carry the ball or pretend to be a five-eighth. He's the softest loose forward I've ever seen.
but, but the leg drive!! beast mode!! And that one breakdown steal a game where he gets up looking staunch as fuck!! Amazing player.
The part of his game that fucks me off is he will often pick the worst possible time for a pick and go, killing opportunity, and often making no yards because he trips over the obvious obstacles that SHOULD have meant he didn't take it on. I am so over his state of play.
100%. In the right situation - static ball where he can stay up and others can drive him - he can be an effective carrier, but more often than not he isn't and he kills quick ball.
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The worst part of the decline in standards, I’m starting to not give a fuck anymore ,
That’s probably a lie I don’t care , but I convince myself what’s the point worrying about it , fuck it , move on and I do .
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i care, i am just not surprised.
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@reprobate said in England Vs All Blacks:
@mariner4life said in England Vs All Blacks:
@antipodean said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Tim said in England Vs All Blacks:
See if you can spot a loose forward in these pictures ... Savea stands way off the ruck and looks disinterested. Terrible openside. Absolutely shithouse selection
Because he only wants to carry the ball or pretend to be a five-eighth. He's the softest loose forward I've ever seen.
but, but the leg drive!! beast mode!! And that one breakdown steal a game where he gets up looking staunch as fuck!! Amazing player.
The part of his game that fucks me off is he will often pick the worst possible time for a pick and go, killing opportunity, and often making no yards because he trips over the obvious obstacles that SHOULD have meant he didn't take it on. I am so over his state of play.
100%. In the right situation - static ball where he can stay up and others can drive him - he can be an effective carrier, but more often than not he isn't and he kills quick ball.
because he, like Beauden, just does shit and no one else knows what is going on and therefore are reactive rather than proactive.
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@mariner4life said in England Vs All Blacks:
@reprobate said in England Vs All Blacks:
@mariner4life said in England Vs All Blacks:
@antipodean said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Tim said in England Vs All Blacks:
See if you can spot a loose forward in these pictures ... Savea stands way off the ruck and looks disinterested. Terrible openside. Absolutely shithouse selection
Because he only wants to carry the ball or pretend to be a five-eighth. He's the softest loose forward I've ever seen.
but, but the leg drive!! beast mode!! And that one breakdown steal a game where he gets up looking staunch as fuck!! Amazing player.
The part of his game that fucks me off is he will often pick the worst possible time for a pick and go, killing opportunity, and often making no yards because he trips over the obvious obstacles that SHOULD have meant he didn't take it on. I am so over his state of play.
100%. In the right situation - static ball where he can stay up and others can drive him - he can be an effective carrier, but more often than not he isn't and he kills quick ball.
because he, like Beauden, just does shit and no one else knows what is going on and therefore are reactive rather than proactive.
If that's what senior leadership looks like, I reckon we ditch it.
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@mariner4life said in England Vs All Blacks:
@antipodean said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Tim said in England Vs All Blacks:
See if you can spot a loose forward in these pictures ... Savea stands way off the ruck and looks disinterested. Terrible openside. Absolutely shithouse selection
Because he only wants to carry the ball or pretend to be a five-eighth. He's the softest loose forward I've ever seen.
but, but the leg drive!! beast mode!! And that one breakdown steal a game where he gets up looking staunch as fuck!! Amazing player.
The part of his game that fucks me off is he will often pick the worst possible time for a pick and go, killing opportunity, and often making no yards because he trips over the obvious obstacles that SHOULD have meant he didn't take it on. I am so over his state of play.
we've seen the early signs for years, i remember talking about games where he would make multiple breaks....but they were so unexpected he almost immediately got isloted and lost it to a turn over or at best got an offload away....to someone who go isolated....hes often been the posterboy for the "champion team beats a team of champions" debate
and i do get the idea that the others should be backing up his game changing plays...but after the 50th time we didn;t...maybe we try somehing else
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I think the issue is the cards not issued. We can debate whether Taylor's was merited or not but it set a threshold. For example, I forget exactly when in the second half on the English left wing an English player held on cynically. Sanction pen only. It was an astonishing decision.
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England players after they bt the ABs, fk me, I know it’s all for a laugh but imagine the likes of Shelford, Collins, McCaw etc doing this
. My word times have changed. -
@DaGrubster said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Tim said in England Vs All Blacks:
@African-Monkey Yep, absolutely. Was allowed side entry to rucks at will. Absolutely will get penalised for that in test rugby.
Savea will play the same way no matter what jersey is on his back.
He shoukd have stayed at 8 as we need perpetual motion in an openside. Not a player looking for his moments and watching rucks.
Beer suited to the bench now and get Paps or Lakai as our 7.
Ironically Razor would have been better being Crusader biased and picking Tom Christie for 7 than either of Savea or Kirifi. He would have wore greater initial criticism but at least the All Blacks would have a tackling machine who hits rucks at 7.
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I just read Robertson's interview post match with NZ media. He spoke about the squad 'caring' about the results and they are good men, they know what needs to be done but the issue is in the execution. I didn't see anywhere that he took any responsibility which is a worry. I think he's out of his depth and I don't have any faith in him being able to pull things together before the RWC. We have 18 months- bring in someone fresh with experience coaching at the international level - Jamie Joseph? Joe?
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@allblackfan2 Robertson says whatever sounds good inside his head at the time. Doesn’t matter if it’s a contradiction to something he’s said or done previously. Doesn’t matter if it’s even makes sense. At least some of the players may very well care about the results but they’d do well to care while the game’s still being played and put a bit more effort in, i.e. not walk on defence. And the coach would do well to create an environment where that type of thing is unacceptable and the players are held to account if it ever does, rather than promoting them to captain the next week.
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@tubbyj said in England Vs All Blacks:
@DaGrubster said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Tim said in England Vs All Blacks:
@African-Monkey Yep, absolutely. Was allowed side entry to rucks at will. Absolutely will get penalised for that in test rugby.
Savea will play the same way no matter what jersey is on his back.
He shoukd have stayed at 8 as we need perpetual motion in an openside. Not a player looking for his moments and watching rucks.
Beer suited to the bench now and get Paps or Lakai as our 7.
Ironically Razor would have been better being Crusader biased and picking Tom Christie for 7 than either of Savea or Kirifi. He would have wore greater initial criticism but at least the All Blacks would have a tackling machine who hits rucks at 7.
Nailed it.
And frankly you just nailed the problem with the All Blacks - it's not an amalgamation of the specialists and overachievers in NZ rugby. It's not the best of the best.
The All blacks is just the clique of cool and popular kids who have social media game. It's a circle jerk built around Ardie Saveas cult of personality more than anything else.
Christie set a standard of excellence and overachievement at the 7 position for the Crusaders and Canterbury this year that is what the All Black branding purports to be but isn't because it's all about if your face fits.
I can see why coaches and players bail out because it's not a culture of meritocracy or intellectual innovation it's a groupthink enterprise.
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@tubbyj said in England Vs All Blacks:
@DaGrubster said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Tim said in England Vs All Blacks:
@African-Monkey Yep, absolutely. Was allowed side entry to rucks at will. Absolutely will get penalised for that in test rugby.
Savea will play the same way no matter what jersey is on his back.
He shoukd have stayed at 8 as we need perpetual motion in an openside. Not a player looking for his moments and watching rucks.
Beer suited to the bench now and get Paps or Lakai as our 7.
Ironically Razor would have been better being Crusader biased and picking Tom Christie for 7 than either of Savea or Kirifi. He would have wore greater initial criticism but at least the All Blacks would have a tackling machine who hits rucks at 7.
Agree. CLW at number 8 and take a punt on Gardiner at 6.
Hotham at 9, and new blood like Reihana at 1st 5.
I would’ve gone with some experience at 12 like Havili and an inform Ennor at centre. Open it up for Fainga’anuku and Jordan on the wings. T. Chief at fullback.
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@ACT-Crusader said in England Vs All Blacks:
@tubbyj said in England Vs All Blacks:
@DaGrubster said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Tim said in England Vs All Blacks:
@African-Monkey Yep, absolutely. Was allowed side entry to rucks at will. Absolutely will get penalised for that in test rugby.
Savea will play the same way no matter what jersey is on his back.
He shoukd have stayed at 8 as we need perpetual motion in an openside. Not a player looking for his moments and watching rucks.
Beer suited to the bench now and get Paps or Lakai as our 7.
Ironically Razor would have been better being Crusader biased and picking Tom Christie for 7 than either of Savea or Kirifi. He would have wore greater initial criticism but at least the All Blacks would have a tackling machine who hits rucks at 7.
Agree. CLW at number 8 and take a punt on Gardiner at 6.
Hotham at 9, and new blood like Reihana at 1st 5.
I would’ve gone with some experience at 12 like Havili and an inform Ennor at centre. Open it up for Fainga’anuku and Jordan on the wings. T. Chief at fullback.
Covers 15 and 10 as well.
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@ACT-Crusader said in England Vs All Blacks:
@tubbyj said in England Vs All Blacks:
@DaGrubster said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Tim said in England Vs All Blacks:
@African-Monkey Yep, absolutely. Was allowed side entry to rucks at will. Absolutely will get penalised for that in test rugby.
Savea will play the same way no matter what jersey is on his back.
He shoukd have stayed at 8 as we need perpetual motion in an openside. Not a player looking for his moments and watching rucks.
Beer suited to the bench now and get Paps or Lakai as our 7.
Ironically Razor would have been better being Crusader biased and picking Tom Christie for 7 than either of Savea or Kirifi. He would have wore greater initial criticism but at least the All Blacks would have a tackling machine who hits rucks at 7.
Agree. CLW at number 8 and take a punt on Gardiner at 6.
Hotham at 9, and new blood like Reihana at 1st 5.
I would’ve gone with some experience at 12 like Havili and an inform Ennor at centre. Open it up for Fainga’anuku and Jordan on the wings. T. Chief at fullback.
Coward.
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Oh, that reminds me.... Didn't get a chance to watch it for a second time but I'm relatively certain that Razor made a few substitutions when defending a set piece.
If this isn't a figment of my imagination it also happened in one of the earlier test matches, possibly in Argentina.
Not sure how exacting coaches can be when it comes to timing these things ) especially since sometimes they are injury enforced) but it's less than ideal when the first action a player has in a match is defending a set piece in their 22.
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Kudos to Lakai for at least getting out to attempt to charge down Ford on both those drop goals.
I noticed on the second the open side was hanging out in midfield, a safe distance from the ruck.
