England v All Blacks
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@tubbyj said in England Vs All Blacks:
@DaGrubster said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Tim said in England Vs All Blacks:
@African-Monkey Yep, absolutely. Was allowed side entry to rucks at will. Absolutely will get penalised for that in test rugby.
Savea will play the same way no matter what jersey is on his back.
He shoukd have stayed at 8 as we need perpetual motion in an openside. Not a player looking for his moments and watching rucks.
Beer suited to the bench now and get Paps or Lakai as our 7.
Ironically Razor would have been better being Crusader biased and picking Tom Christie for 7 than either of Savea or Kirifi. He would have wore greater initial criticism but at least the All Blacks would have a tackling machine who hits rucks at 7.
Nailed it.
And frankly you just nailed the problem with the All Blacks - it's not an amalgamation of the specialists and overachievers in NZ rugby. It's not the best of the best.
The All blacks is just the clique of cool and popular kids who have social media game. It's a circle jerk built around Ardie Saveas cult of personality more than anything else.
Christie set a standard of excellence and overachievement at the 7 position for the Crusaders and Canterbury this year that is what the All Black branding purports to be but isn't because it's all about if your face fits.
I can see why coaches and players bail out because it's not a culture of meritocracy or intellectual innovation it's a groupthink enterprise.
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@tubbyj said in England Vs All Blacks:
@DaGrubster said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Tim said in England Vs All Blacks:
@African-Monkey Yep, absolutely. Was allowed side entry to rucks at will. Absolutely will get penalised for that in test rugby.
Savea will play the same way no matter what jersey is on his back.
He shoukd have stayed at 8 as we need perpetual motion in an openside. Not a player looking for his moments and watching rucks.
Beer suited to the bench now and get Paps or Lakai as our 7.
Ironically Razor would have been better being Crusader biased and picking Tom Christie for 7 than either of Savea or Kirifi. He would have wore greater initial criticism but at least the All Blacks would have a tackling machine who hits rucks at 7.
Agree. CLW at number 8 and take a punt on Gardiner at 6.
Hotham at 9, and new blood like Reihana at 1st 5.
I would’ve gone with some experience at 12 like Havili and an inform Ennor at centre. Open it up for Fainga’anuku and Jordan on the wings. T. Chief at fullback.
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@ACT-Crusader said in England Vs All Blacks:
@tubbyj said in England Vs All Blacks:
@DaGrubster said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Tim said in England Vs All Blacks:
@African-Monkey Yep, absolutely. Was allowed side entry to rucks at will. Absolutely will get penalised for that in test rugby.
Savea will play the same way no matter what jersey is on his back.
He shoukd have stayed at 8 as we need perpetual motion in an openside. Not a player looking for his moments and watching rucks.
Beer suited to the bench now and get Paps or Lakai as our 7.
Ironically Razor would have been better being Crusader biased and picking Tom Christie for 7 than either of Savea or Kirifi. He would have wore greater initial criticism but at least the All Blacks would have a tackling machine who hits rucks at 7.
Agree. CLW at number 8 and take a punt on Gardiner at 6.
Hotham at 9, and new blood like Reihana at 1st 5.
I would’ve gone with some experience at 12 like Havili and an inform Ennor at centre. Open it up for Fainga’anuku and Jordan on the wings. T. Chief at fullback.
Covers 15 and 10 as well.
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@ACT-Crusader said in England Vs All Blacks:
@tubbyj said in England Vs All Blacks:
@DaGrubster said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Tim said in England Vs All Blacks:
@African-Monkey Yep, absolutely. Was allowed side entry to rucks at will. Absolutely will get penalised for that in test rugby.
Savea will play the same way no matter what jersey is on his back.
He shoukd have stayed at 8 as we need perpetual motion in an openside. Not a player looking for his moments and watching rucks.
Beer suited to the bench now and get Paps or Lakai as our 7.
Ironically Razor would have been better being Crusader biased and picking Tom Christie for 7 than either of Savea or Kirifi. He would have wore greater initial criticism but at least the All Blacks would have a tackling machine who hits rucks at 7.
Agree. CLW at number 8 and take a punt on Gardiner at 6.
Hotham at 9, and new blood like Reihana at 1st 5.
I would’ve gone with some experience at 12 like Havili and an inform Ennor at centre. Open it up for Fainga’anuku and Jordan on the wings. T. Chief at fullback.
Coward.
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Oh, that reminds me.... Didn't get a chance to watch it for a second time but I'm relatively certain that Razor made a few substitutions when defending a set piece.
If this isn't a figment of my imagination it also happened in one of the earlier test matches, possibly in Argentina.
Not sure how exacting coaches can be when it comes to timing these things ) especially since sometimes they are injury enforced) but it's less than ideal when the first action a player has in a match is defending a set piece in their 22.
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Kudos to Lakai for at least getting out to attempt to charge down Ford on both those drop goals.
I noticed on the second the open side was hanging out in midfield, a safe distance from the ruck.
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@nonpartizan well to be fair, you're going to have to break the laws to sub in open play, might as well wait until Rassie tries it at least.
Once you've requested the sub I imagine you can get unlucky when it happens too.
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@Bones said in England Vs All Blacks:
@nonpartizan well to be fair, you're going to have to break the laws to sub in open play, might as well wait until Rassie tries it at least.
Once you've requested the sub I imagine you can get unlucky when it happens too.
Yeah, I just looked at the highlights it was McKenzie on for Barrett defending the lineout after the 50:22...... England scored - 54 mins.
I think they would have scored anyway so it's immaterial I guess but I feel like multiple times this season they have subbed when defending a set piece in the 22. Maybe it's just bad luck.
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@nonpartizan feeds the coaching narrative on why they select how they select though.
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@Bones said in England Vs All Blacks:
@nonpartizan well to be fair, you're going to have to break the laws to sub in open play, might as well wait until Rassie tries it at least.
Once you've requested the sub I imagine you can get unlucky when it happens too.
Upvote for the innovative post.
But surely you can say, nah, let's wait a bit?
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@booboo said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Bones said in England Vs All Blacks:
@nonpartizan well to be fair, you're going to have to break the laws to sub in open play, might as well wait until Rassie tries it at least.
Once you've requested the sub I imagine you can get unlucky when it happens too.
Upvote for the innovative post.
But surely you can say, nah, let's wait a bit?
No idea to be honest, but I imagine it works that you say "ok let's get guy X on", then it happens next stoppage. Figure it's probably not that easy to hit the pause button at the last second or tell the officials you've changed your mind as X is running on?
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@tubbyj said in England Vs All Blacks:
I reckon you put Hoskin Satutu on the bench for England and they would have put another 2 tries on us in that second half..
Well, he wouldn't lack for motivation...
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@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
I don't generally watch or like The Breakdown. But this might be the best episode ever. Mils and Goldie are putting the boot into Razor and his group, NZR and the players. Their frustration and anger is palpable
Is Marshall on that? Isn't he pals with Razor?
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@nostrildamus said in England Vs All Blacks:
@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
I don't generally watch or like The Breakdown. But this might be the best episode ever. Mils and Goldie are putting the boot into Razor and his group, NZR and the players. Their frustration and anger is palpable
Is Marshall on that? Isn't he pals with Razor?
No. It's Mils, Goldie and Beaver. Mils and Goldie are fucken pissed
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@MN5 said in England Vs All Blacks:
I know the result was tough to take but drinking on a TV show is very unprofessional.
I loved the Dave Allen Show. Maybe before your time, but his delivery and timing were spot on.
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The takeaways?
- Razor has had a comfortable ride compared to most AB coaches in his position. Our patience is running out We are finding out that what works at SR level doesn't work at test level
- NZR have a lot to answer for, placing commerce over on field success
- NZR have let quality coaches and the IP that they possess leave taking it all with them to share with the world. A lot of these coaches don't want a bar of NZR now
- We seem badly prepared and unable to execute in the pressure moments
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The one thing that would have helped the Breakdowns cause would have been some analysis.
Whilst their points were valid sometimes this type of dialogue can just be dismissed as emotional and reactive on the back.of a loss.
They need to put together a highlights reel that exposes the flaws in the coaching. Just pick 5 plays, break them down frame by frame and really put the coaching staff under the microscope. It could be maul defence, BB kicking, the soak tackles..... Just pick a theme and pose the equation - why does this never improve?
