FFS get a grip
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It's still the ABs, we can still beat anyone and it's not like there are 15 absolute duds on the field that teams are just going to put 30 points on in the first half.
But the accumulation of errors and us being unable to take opportunities adds up over the 80 minutes. Our use of the bench is still mediocre at best. Our ability to stand up to scoreboard pressure and remain calm is poor, because our leaders (BB, AS) think they need to make a miracle play, and that rubs off on everyone else.@reprobate said in FFS get a grip:
It's still the ABs, we can still beat anyone and it's not like there are 15 absolute duds on the field that teams are just going to put 30 points on in the first half.
But the accumulation of errors and us being unable to take opportunities adds up over the 80 minutes. Our use of the bench is still mediocre at best. Our ability to stand up to scoreboard pressure and remain calm is poor, because our leaders (BB, AS) think they need to make a miracle play, and that rubs off on everyone else.Systemic issues that are preventing the team from doing their best
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It's still the ABs, we can still beat anyone and it's not like there are 15 absolute duds on the field that teams are just going to put 30 points on in the first half.
But the accumulation of errors and us being unable to take opportunities adds up over the 80 minutes. Our use of the bench is still mediocre at best. Our ability to stand up to scoreboard pressure and remain calm is poor, because our leaders (BB, AS) think they need to make a miracle play, and that rubs off on everyone else.@reprobate said in FFS get a grip:
It's still the ABs, we can still beat anyone and it's not like there are 15 absolute duds on the field that teams are just going to put 30 points on in the first half.
But the accumulation of errors and us being unable to take opportunities adds up over the 80 minutes. Our use of the bench is still mediocre at best. Our ability to stand up to scoreboard pressure and remain calm is poor, because our leaders (BB, AS) think they need to make a miracle play, and that rubs off on everyone else.KISS?
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@sparky said in FFS get a grip:
@pakman said in FFS get a grip:
ABs were ahead at HT in 10 of 12 tests this year.
Unfortunately for Scott Robertson and his chums, Rugby Tests aren't decided after 40 minutes.
A loss is a loss is a loss.
The starters are OK. I don’t know what the hell happens in the shed at half time, but that and the substitution tactics are where the problem is.
@pakman said in FFS get a grip:
@sparky said in FFS get a grip:
@pakman said in FFS get a grip:
ABs were ahead at HT in 10 of 12 tests this year.
Unfortunately for Scott Robertson and his chums, Rugby Tests aren't decided after 40 minutes.
A loss is a loss is a loss.
The starters are OK. I don’t know what the hell happens in the shed at half time, but that and the substitution tactics are where the problem is.
I disagree, starters are the issue, as is game plan.
Starters-
BB has started at 1st 5 and is labored in his position, seems slow at getting ball to backs, kicking game has been off and looks over coached, over trained.Will Jordon hasn't shown the form from his previous years. why? possibly confidence, maybe trying to play a structured game plan that doesn't suit him, but he hasn't been on form on this NH tour.
Leroy Carter isn't our best wing, yet has been picked every game had a brain fart for a Yellow, missed a tackle that led to a Try and hasn't scored a Try on tour.
Scott Barrett is out of form, and hasn't lead team well IMO.
Parker is a great defender, but hasn't added to the attack like a Sititi
Game Plan-
We look half assed in attack, the league style of passing behind player only works if the ball is passed in front of player receiving. Time and time we see the ball go loose, or the player has to reach behind them to take ball. This no look pop pass fucken infuriates me as it offers nothing yet is a high percentage lost ball that leads to points,
BB take ball at first five and is laboured in his delivery, it's almost like slow motion, giving defenses time. Seems the "Crash" ball in Centres is plan, but easily read by teams.
Also "fast ball" is what I think they are trying to achieve, but teams slow this down and it's not effective. the penalty tap is an example. We got one try from Cody Taylor flicking up to Sititi? but that about the only positive.
High ball kicks-the only thing to say is the kick is only as good as the chaser.One thing that fucks me off is the Coaches comments about "Care" We Care for the players, they showed Care blah blah fucken blah. Care doesn't win Test Matches.
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@pakman said in FFS get a grip:
@sparky said in FFS get a grip:
@pakman said in FFS get a grip:
ABs were ahead at HT in 10 of 12 tests this year.
Unfortunately for Scott Robertson and his chums, Rugby Tests aren't decided after 40 minutes.
A loss is a loss is a loss.
The starters are OK. I don’t know what the hell happens in the shed at half time, but that and the substitution tactics are where the problem is.
I disagree, starters are the issue, as is game plan.
Starters-
BB has started at 1st 5 and is labored in his position, seems slow at getting ball to backs, kicking game has been off and looks over coached, over trained.Will Jordon hasn't shown the form from his previous years. why? possibly confidence, maybe trying to play a structured game plan that doesn't suit him, but he hasn't been on form on this NH tour.
Leroy Carter isn't our best wing, yet has been picked every game had a brain fart for a Yellow, missed a tackle that led to a Try and hasn't scored a Try on tour.
Scott Barrett is out of form, and hasn't lead team well IMO.
Parker is a great defender, but hasn't added to the attack like a Sititi
Game Plan-
We look half assed in attack, the league style of passing behind player only works if the ball is passed in front of player receiving. Time and time we see the ball go loose, or the player has to reach behind them to take ball. This no look pop pass fucken infuriates me as it offers nothing yet is a high percentage lost ball that leads to points,
BB take ball at first five and is laboured in his delivery, it's almost like slow motion, giving defenses time. Seems the "Crash" ball in Centres is plan, but easily read by teams.
Also "fast ball" is what I think they are trying to achieve, but teams slow this down and it's not effective. the penalty tap is an example. We got one try from Cody Taylor flicking up to Sititi? but that about the only positive.
High ball kicks-the only thing to say is the kick is only as good as the chaser.One thing that fucks me off is the Coaches comments about "Care" We Care for the players, they showed Care blah blah fucken blah. Care doesn't win Test Matches.
@Paj lots of good observations BUT those starters are statistically the best in world over first halves this year.
I haven’t analysed Q3s but my hunch is that said starters are pants in that period. Either that or the half time team talks are lessons in self sabotage.
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@pakman said in FFS get a grip:
@sparky said in FFS get a grip:
@pakman said in FFS get a grip:
ABs were ahead at HT in 10 of 12 tests this year.
Unfortunately for Scott Robertson and his chums, Rugby Tests aren't decided after 40 minutes.
A loss is a loss is a loss.
The starters are OK. I don’t know what the hell happens in the shed at half time, but that and the substitution tactics are where the problem is.
I disagree, starters are the issue, as is game plan.
Starters-
BB has started at 1st 5 and is labored in his position, seems slow at getting ball to backs, kicking game has been off and looks over coached, over trained.Will Jordon hasn't shown the form from his previous years. why? possibly confidence, maybe trying to play a structured game plan that doesn't suit him, but he hasn't been on form on this NH tour.
Leroy Carter isn't our best wing, yet has been picked every game had a brain fart for a Yellow, missed a tackle that led to a Try and hasn't scored a Try on tour.
Scott Barrett is out of form, and hasn't lead team well IMO.
Parker is a great defender, but hasn't added to the attack like a Sititi
Game Plan-
We look half assed in attack, the league style of passing behind player only works if the ball is passed in front of player receiving. Time and time we see the ball go loose, or the player has to reach behind them to take ball. This no look pop pass fucken infuriates me as it offers nothing yet is a high percentage lost ball that leads to points,
BB take ball at first five and is laboured in his delivery, it's almost like slow motion, giving defenses time. Seems the "Crash" ball in Centres is plan, but easily read by teams.
Also "fast ball" is what I think they are trying to achieve, but teams slow this down and it's not effective. the penalty tap is an example. We got one try from Cody Taylor flicking up to Sititi? but that about the only positive.
High ball kicks-the only thing to say is the kick is only as good as the chaser.One thing that fucks me off is the Coaches comments about "Care" We Care for the players, they showed Care blah blah fucken blah. Care doesn't win Test Matches.
@Paj said in FFS get a grip:
@pakman said in FFS get a grip:
@sparky said in FFS get a grip:
@pakman said in FFS get a grip:
ABs were ahead at HT in 10 of 12 tests this year.
Unfortunately for Scott Robertson and his chums, Rugby Tests aren't decided after 40 minutes.
A loss is a loss is a loss.
The starters are OK. I don’t know what the hell happens in the shed at half time, but that and the substitution tactics are where the problem is.
I disagree, starters are the issue, as is game plan.
Starters-
BB has started at 1st 5 and is labored in his position, seems slow at getting ball to backs, kicking game has been off and looks over coached, over trained.Will Jordon hasn't shown the form from his previous years. why? possibly confidence, maybe trying to play a structured game plan that doesn't suit him, but he hasn't been on form on this NH tour.
Leroy Carter isn't our best wing, yet has been picked every game had a brain fart for a Yellow, missed a tackle that led to a Try and hasn't scored a Try on tour.
Scott Barrett is out of form, and hasn't lead team well IMO.
Parker is a great defender, but hasn't added to the attack like a Sititi
Game Plan-
We look half assed in attack, the league style of passing behind player only works if the ball is passed in front of player receiving. Time and time we see the ball go loose, or the player has to reach behind them to take ball. This no look pop pass fucken infuriates me as it offers nothing yet is a high percentage lost ball that leads to points,
BB take ball at first five and is laboured in his delivery, it's almost like slow motion, giving defenses time. Seems the "Crash" ball in Centres is plan, but easily read by teams.
Also "fast ball" is what I think they are trying to achieve, but teams slow this down and it's not effective. the penalty tap is an example. We got one try from Cody Taylor flicking up to Sititi? but that about the only positive.
High ball kicks-the only thing to say is the kick is only as good as the chaser.One thing that fucks me off is the Coaches comments about "Care" We Care for the players, they showed Care blah blah fucken blah. Care doesn't win Test Matches.
Wow things must be bad for one of the OGs to come out and comment
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@Paj said in FFS get a grip:
@pakman said in FFS get a grip:
@sparky said in FFS get a grip:
@pakman said in FFS get a grip:
ABs were ahead at HT in 10 of 12 tests this year.
Unfortunately for Scott Robertson and his chums, Rugby Tests aren't decided after 40 minutes.
A loss is a loss is a loss.
The starters are OK. I don’t know what the hell happens in the shed at half time, but that and the substitution tactics are where the problem is.
I disagree, starters are the issue, as is game plan.
Starters-
BB has started at 1st 5 and is labored in his position, seems slow at getting ball to backs, kicking game has been off and looks over coached, over trained.Will Jordon hasn't shown the form from his previous years. why? possibly confidence, maybe trying to play a structured game plan that doesn't suit him, but he hasn't been on form on this NH tour.
Leroy Carter isn't our best wing, yet has been picked every game had a brain fart for a Yellow, missed a tackle that led to a Try and hasn't scored a Try on tour.
Scott Barrett is out of form, and hasn't lead team well IMO.
Parker is a great defender, but hasn't added to the attack like a Sititi
Game Plan-
We look half assed in attack, the league style of passing behind player only works if the ball is passed in front of player receiving. Time and time we see the ball go loose, or the player has to reach behind them to take ball. This no look pop pass fucken infuriates me as it offers nothing yet is a high percentage lost ball that leads to points,
BB take ball at first five and is laboured in his delivery, it's almost like slow motion, giving defenses time. Seems the "Crash" ball in Centres is plan, but easily read by teams.
Also "fast ball" is what I think they are trying to achieve, but teams slow this down and it's not effective. the penalty tap is an example. We got one try from Cody Taylor flicking up to Sititi? but that about the only positive.
High ball kicks-the only thing to say is the kick is only as good as the chaser.One thing that fucks me off is the Coaches comments about "Care" We Care for the players, they showed Care blah blah fucken blah. Care doesn't win Test Matches.
Wow things must be bad for one of the OGs to come out and comment
@canefan said in FFS get a grip:
@Paj said in FFS get a grip:
@pakman said in FFS get a grip:
@sparky said in FFS get a grip:
@pakman said in FFS get a grip:
ABs were ahead at HT in 10 of 12 tests this year.
Unfortunately for Scott Robertson and his chums, Rugby Tests aren't decided after 40 minutes.
A loss is a loss is a loss.
The starters are OK. I don’t know what the hell happens in the shed at half time, but that and the substitution tactics are where the problem is.
I disagree, starters are the issue, as is game plan.
Starters-
BB has started at 1st 5 and is labored in his position, seems slow at getting ball to backs, kicking game has been off and looks over coached, over trained.Will Jordon hasn't shown the form from his previous years. why? possibly confidence, maybe trying to play a structured game plan that doesn't suit him, but he hasn't been on form on this NH tour.
Leroy Carter isn't our best wing, yet has been picked every game had a brain fart for a Yellow, missed a tackle that led to a Try and hasn't scored a Try on tour.
Scott Barrett is out of form, and hasn't lead team well IMO.
Parker is a great defender, but hasn't added to the attack like a Sititi
Game Plan-
We look half assed in attack, the league style of passing behind player only works if the ball is passed in front of player receiving. Time and time we see the ball go loose, or the player has to reach behind them to take ball. This no look pop pass fucken infuriates me as it offers nothing yet is a high percentage lost ball that leads to points,
BB take ball at first five and is laboured in his delivery, it's almost like slow motion, giving defenses time. Seems the "Crash" ball in Centres is plan, but easily read by teams.
Also "fast ball" is what I think they are trying to achieve, but teams slow this down and it's not effective. the penalty tap is an example. We got one try from Cody Taylor flicking up to Sititi? but that about the only positive.
High ball kicks-the only thing to say is the kick is only as good as the chaser.One thing that fucks me off is the Coaches comments about "Care" We Care for the players, they showed Care blah blah fucken blah. Care doesn't win Test Matches.
Wow things must be bad for one of the OGs to come out and comment
Haha, yep, been brewing for awhile. I was so excited for this tour, and especially Ireland and England. and to get up at 4.45am and watch that pile of shit and then milk cows late in a grumpy mood has me back lurking in the forum.
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Welcome back
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@Paj lots of good observations BUT those starters are statistically the best in world over first halves this year.
I haven’t analysed Q3s but my hunch is that said starters are pants in that period. Either that or the half time team talks are lessons in self sabotage.
@pakman said in FFS get a grip:
@Paj lots of good observations BUT those starters are statistically the best in world over first halves this year.
Imagine that the first five took on the line to keep the defence engaged, passed quickly and kicked accurately. Imagine a backline that ran onto the ball at different angles and passed accurately.
Imagine using running props as options to keep the defence stationary. Used the non-running forwards to clean rucks instead of the other way around.
Imagine loose forwards that had a body of work on both sides of the ball.
I haven’t analysed Q3s but my hunch is that said starters are pants in that period. Either that or the half time team talks are lessons in self sabotage.
I think the latter is more true than not given that's the opportunity for the incompetent to offer their insights and poison the minds of those on the field who have been doing the work.
But that doesn't absolve those on the field for abominably bad decisions.
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I was deeply unhappy when I viewed 30 to 50 of England tape.
BUT I just want ABs to continue the legacy.
ABs were ahead at HT in 10 of 12 tests this year.
The clear inference is that the starting selection is the best in World Rugby.
I know that doesn't fit the current narrative, but those are facts, and we led the Boks at HT in both games.
AND in general our last quarter is fine.
NO NEED TO THROW THE BABY OUT WITH BATHWATER!
We have quite a few key players out: Lomax/Vaa'i/Paddy T/Jordie/Narewa.
The decision not to hook Beauden at 30 cost us the England match. We should have been out of sight at HT.
And yes, we dropped our bundle when Codie was shown the absurd yellow card.
BUT this team isn't that far from where we need to be.
When we get behind (as all teams do occasionally) we just need to work through our processes and let our superiority count. NO NEED FOR MIRACLE PLAYS.
The coaching staff needs to eat some humble pie and apologise to the squad.
Including recognising that fresh legs sometimes are more important than playing the best players into the ground.
So subbing the releavant starters at 45/50 is now the smart play!
So get back on the horse and focus on giving the Welsh one hell of a beating.
END OF RANT.
@pakman said in FFS get a grip:
When we get behind (as all teams do occasionally) we just need to work through our processes and let our superiority count. NO NEED FOR MIRACLE PLAYS.
this is the problem though....our whole game plan for the last 6 years has been about attack from anywhere with miracle plays....ive seen nothing over the last several years to believe we can change gears, selections are all centred around individual brilliance
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think the first half on Sunday morning was good because we were ahead on the scoreboard is some box score bullshit.
the starters ARE a problem.Are we completely fucked? no
Does it look like we are getting better? also no -
think the first half on Sunday morning was good because we were ahead on the scoreboard is some box score bullshit.
the starters ARE a problem.Are we completely fucked? no
Does it look like we are getting better? also no@mariner4life the scoreboard on Saturday is an indictment. With competent substitution we’d have been 17-5 or more up at halftime. Mind you I don’t place that much store on that because English were pants.
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@mariner4life the scoreboard on Saturday is an indictment. With competent substitution we’d have been 17-5 or more up at halftime. Mind you I don’t place that much store on that because English were pants.
@pakman said in FFS get a grip:
@mariner4life the scoreboard on Saturday is an indictment. With competent substitution we’d have been 17-5 or more up at halftime. Mind you I don’t place that much store on that because English were pants.
what do you mean by this?
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@mariner4life the scoreboard on Saturday is an indictment. With competent substitution we’d have been 17-5 or more up at halftime. Mind you I don’t place that much store on that because English were pants.
@pakman said in FFS get a grip:
@mariner4life the scoreboard on Saturday is an indictment. With competent substitution we’d have been 17-5 or more up at halftime. Mind you I don’t place that much store on that because English were pants.
The poms blew definitely 2 maybe 3 try scoring opportunities in the first half, and couldn't win a lineout. We were not good at all.
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credit where it's due, our defensive lineout was fucking ace on the weekend, and the scrum was good right up until the card.
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@pakman said in FFS get a grip:
@mariner4life the scoreboard on Saturday is an indictment. With competent substitution we’d have been 17-5 or more up at halftime. Mind you I don’t place that much store on that because English were pants.
what do you mean by this?
@mariner4life said in FFS get a grip:
@pakman said in FFS get a grip:
@mariner4life the scoreboard on Saturday is an indictment. With competent substitution we’d have been 17-5 or more up at halftime. Mind you I don’t place that much store on that because English were pants.
what do you mean by this?
When your 10 can neither kick for touch nor take shots at goal competent substitution would be to replace him with someone who can.
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@pakman said in FFS get a grip:
@mariner4life the scoreboard on Saturday is an indictment. With competent substitution we’d have been 17-5 or more up at halftime. Mind you I don’t place that much store on that because English were pants.
The poms blew definitely 2 maybe 3 try scoring opportunities in the first half, and couldn't win a lineout. We were not good at all.
@reprobate IMO ABs in H1 were 10 points the better team. But by no means vintage.
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I was deeply unhappy when I viewed 30 to 50 of England tape.
BUT I just want ABs to continue the legacy.
ABs were ahead at HT in 10 of 12 tests this year.
The clear inference is that the starting selection is the best in World Rugby.
I know that doesn't fit the current narrative, but those are facts, and we led the Boks at HT in both games.
AND in general our last quarter is fine.
NO NEED TO THROW THE BABY OUT WITH BATHWATER!
We have quite a few key players out: Lomax/Vaa'i/Paddy T/Jordie/Narewa.
The decision not to hook Beauden at 30 cost us the England match. We should have been out of sight at HT.
And yes, we dropped our bundle when Codie was shown the absurd yellow card.
BUT this team isn't that far from where we need to be.
When we get behind (as all teams do occasionally) we just need to work through our processes and let our superiority count. NO NEED FOR MIRACLE PLAYS.
The coaching staff needs to eat some humble pie and apologise to the squad.
Including recognising that fresh legs sometimes are more important than playing the best players into the ground.
So subbing the releavant starters at 45/50 is now the smart play!
So get back on the horse and focus on giving the Welsh one hell of a beating.
END OF RANT.
@pakman said in FFS get a grip:
When we get behind (as all teams do occasionally) we just need to work through our processes and let our superiority count. NO NEED FOR MIRACLE PLAYS.
of all this sort of weird rant, this is the bit that stands out as being the issue.
our "processes" are actually the problem and contributing enormously to why we are failing. The process, on either side of the ball, seem to be adding pressure to ourselves rather than the opposition.
What, exactly, is this superiority you think we just need fall back on? Our powerful forwards? Superior kicking accuracy? Fast, creative backs? what exactly is it you see that i don't?
