England v All Blacks
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@reprobate said in England v All Blacks:
2nd half re-watch.
De Groot off for Williams at half time.
England kick off, we clear from a ruck via Roigard. England win the lineout, and move the ball. Taylor gets an absurd yellow card.
England don't miss touch with their penalty, go a few phases then barrel over the top of BB to score. Roigard off injured, Ratima on.
We kick off, England return, Jordan claims and we win a penalty. We decide to tap it.I presume BB too crocked to kick for goal?
We can't just do normal dumb play, we're creating new ways to be dumb? Then we go a couple of nothing rucks and kick it away? It's BB's first contestable kick which is actually contestable, but the Poms tidy it up and clear. Why were not launching a strike move from a lineout inside their 22 FFS?
Anyway, a few more middle of the field nothing phases then Ratima puts up a contestable kick which we get back and Carter makes good ground into the 22. Shit passing from Lakai and LF who throws it forward, chance gone. England 8 on 7 scrum penalty and we're back on our 10m, their ball.
England score from the lineout with LF a bad miss on Roebuck. Try rubbed out by the TMO, and we have a penalty, which Jordan is kicking for touch. Why is BB on the field, and why can he kick off and put up bombs, but not kick for touch?FFFS!
We win the lineout, and go through a few phases before BB cross-kicks it away - turns out he can do every sort of kick except finding touch from a penalty. For the 2nd time in the match our deadshit commentator says 'and it's not a bad one!' when it is. It's too far in front of Tupaea and he can't get to it, turnover ball.
A few scrum resets where we are probably lucky not to be penalised. England clear via a contestable kick which they win back, and Ford kicks a 50-22.Very unlucky not to get ball from contestable and Carter too far upfield leaving a big space for Ford to hit, which he does.
McKenzie, Tosi, Sititi on. Straight from the lineout Tupaea doesn't take his man
Doesn’t trust Carter to take Lawrence and thus doesn’t drift on to Dingwall
and England score easily 25-12, then replace most of their forward pack.
England kick out on the full from the kick-off and we get another chance. Going nowhere but get a penalty advantage then a loose pass from McKenzie so time for another tap. Still going nowhere, McKenzie gets a nothing pass and knocks on in contact. England counterattack but knock on at halfway. Poms then win a scrum penalty on our feed, so we're back in our 22 under pressure again.
Loose pass from them, and Proctor is able to clear into their 22, then a penalty for holding on. Gifted another chance, we go to the lineout but they infringe, then they maul illegally from the next lineout, yellow card. 3rd lineout we get the ball to the backs finally and McKenzie puts Jordan in with ease. Darry and ALB on.
They kick off, Ratima clears, they mess up their lineout yet again. From the scrum we get penalty advantage, McKenzie kicks to LF who can't find Jordan on a good line.
We win the lineout go a phase or two making ground then are penalised for sealing off.Dubious penalty as can be argued Sititi was cleaning Pillock.
England kick back to our 22, again lose their lineout, and McKenzie clears long. Bit of kicking back and forth, then England win a contestable kick from Ratima
WE ARE SIX BEHIND AND NINE TO GO ON HALFWAY AND RATIMA KICKS AWAY POSSESSION!
and LF penalised for tackle in the air.
England win their own lineout on attack, and go with the bomb which McKenzie contests and they knock on.
Ratima mucks around and gets scragged by Pollock who looked to be off the scrum illegally.Clear penalty ABs right in front of ref’s nose!
We secure the ball, but Ratima can only clear to the 22, and we get penalised at the lineout, which Ford duly kicks to take the margin out past a converted try.
We kick off, they return fire, we go nowhere until Darry throws a pass to the ground in front of Jordan, who gives up in disgust. McKenzie, Proctor and ALB all try to get back but it's toed through and England score, game over.
We throw the ball around a bit and get a couple of penalties, then lose our own lineout and that's time.So again, their contestable kicking game much better than ours. Ratima's clearances not a patch on Roigard.
And decision making also not a patch.
Our discipline
Only in second half, to be fair.
letting us down (though the card was a joke). A weak scrum, and just doing dumb, dumb stuff. They gave us opportunities, we couldn't take them.
It's also really noticeable how poor LF's handling and ball security is. He is great ball in hand, but you' have to ask how many turnovers is he costing per game? Not that it matters when we're just going to kick it away badly anyway I suppose. -
@KiwiMurph said in England v All Blacks:
@brodean said in England v All Blacks:
@sparky said in England v All Blacks:
@Dodge England are a damn good side at the moment. Lots of balance to their game, they are really well drilled and confident in what they are doing, they have threat in so many aspects of their play, young guys like Feyi-Waboso, Pollock and Pepper are coming on leaps and bounds at the moment.
The Triple Crown, the Six Nations Title and the Grand Slam are all realistic objectives for England in the spring and making the Nations Championship final and the World Cup Final beyond that.
There was no shame in losing to England.
What there was deep shame in for the All Blacks was the manner of the defeat and the performance that proceeded it. We were way off.
We beat England reasonably comfortably in all 3 games last year. This manner of win shows that England have clearly improved while we have either stagnated or gone backwards.
Reasonably comfortably? What?
The ABs scraped home at Eden Park last year vs England due to the bench and the ABs were very lucky not to lose at Twickenham last year - Telea's match winning try only occurred because Beauden got subbed off due to injury (so Telea came back on the field after being subbed off). Combine that with George Ford having a shocking bench appearance for England and they missed two late chances to win it themselves (missed penalty which hit the post and a missed drop goal).
Edit - and the opening test of Razor's tenure the ABs won by 1 point in Dunedin.
Yeah fair enough I take your point. If you look at those matches I believe we were leading the majority of the time regardless of the points difference.
We historically do poorly in the first test.
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@brodean said in England v All Blacks:
@KiwiMurph said in England v All Blacks:
@brodean said in England v All Blacks:
@sparky said in England v All Blacks:
@Dodge England are a damn good side at the moment. Lots of balance to their game, they are really well drilled and confident in what they are doing, they have threat in so many aspects of their play, young guys like Feyi-Waboso, Pollock and Pepper are coming on leaps and bounds at the moment.
The Triple Crown, the Six Nations Title and the Grand Slam are all realistic objectives for England in the spring and making the Nations Championship final and the World Cup Final beyond that.
There was no shame in losing to England.
What there was deep shame in for the All Blacks was the manner of the defeat and the performance that proceeded it. We were way off.
We beat England reasonably comfortably in all 3 games last year. This manner of win shows that England have clearly improved while we have either stagnated or gone backwards.
Reasonably comfortably? What?
The ABs scraped home at Eden Park last year vs England due to the bench and the ABs were very lucky not to lose at Twickenham last year - Telea's match winning try only occurred because Beauden got subbed off due to injury (so Telea came back on the field after being subbed off). Combine that with George Ford having a shocking bench appearance for England and they missed two late chances to win it themselves (missed penalty which hit the post and a missed drop goal).
Edit - and the opening test of Razor's tenure the ABs won by 1 point in Dunedin.
Yeah fair enough I take your point. If you look at those matches I believe we were leading the majority of the time regardless of the points difference.
I've barely felt comfortable during an entire ABs performance since before the Ireland QF in 2023
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@canefan said in England v All Blacks:
@brodean said in England v All Blacks:
@KiwiMurph said in England v All Blacks:
@brodean said in England v All Blacks:
@sparky said in England v All Blacks:
@Dodge England are a damn good side at the moment. Lots of balance to their game, they are really well drilled and confident in what they are doing, they have threat in so many aspects of their play, young guys like Feyi-Waboso, Pollock and Pepper are coming on leaps and bounds at the moment.
The Triple Crown, the Six Nations Title and the Grand Slam are all realistic objectives for England in the spring and making the Nations Championship final and the World Cup Final beyond that.
There was no shame in losing to England.
What there was deep shame in for the All Blacks was the manner of the defeat and the performance that proceeded it. We were way off.
We beat England reasonably comfortably in all 3 games last year. This manner of win shows that England have clearly improved while we have either stagnated or gone backwards.
Reasonably comfortably? What?
The ABs scraped home at Eden Park last year vs England due to the bench and the ABs were very lucky not to lose at Twickenham last year - Telea's match winning try only occurred because Beauden got subbed off due to injury (so Telea came back on the field after being subbed off). Combine that with George Ford having a shocking bench appearance for England and they missed two late chances to win it themselves (missed penalty which hit the post and a missed drop goal).
Edit - and the opening test of Razor's tenure the ABs won by 1 point in Dunedin.
Yeah fair enough I take your point. If you look at those matches I believe we were leading the majority of the time regardless of the points difference.
I've barely felt comfortable during an entire ABs performance since before the Ireland QF in 2023
I thought our loose forwards in the first two tests last year clearly won the contact. Statistically we had the fastest ruck ball in both games.
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@game_film said in England v All Blacks:
I honestly think Beauden is calling it after Wales
something in his face as he left the field on sunday gave me the same impression TBH
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Moving Jordan, who was the worlds premiere winger, to fullback is such a great example of how these coaches have absolutely no idea what they are doing at test level. Nary a thought for the defensive side of test footy, or the importance of the 15 marshalling the troops from the back, or their ability to be a playmaker, it was just "he did well there at Super look at the tries he scored! Let's put him there for the ABs!!".
Such low IQ stuff. It was so obvious that all of his flaws would get exposed at the back, and so it has come to pass. The only thing worse is that they continue to persist playing him there. The absolute height of idiocy.
The other obvious example already mentioned is moving Rieko on and putting blokes with no defensive ability at 13, only for them to get exposed over and over again. For all the "both sides of the ball" horseshit they trotted out to explain away their ridiculous anti-Blues bias, they don't seem to have any idea what that phrase even means.
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@No-Quarter I think that's a bit harsh.
Yes Jordan has glaring weaknesses, but he's no worse than our other options under the high ball. His blinkers and poor passing cause issues on the wing too. He was the best fullback in Super, it's worth a go.
Ioane was not flourishing at 13 last year, and there was a lot of criticism on here. Proctor was outstanding in Super as was Tupaea, and Jordie carved it up up north. Again worth a go.Having said that, if you try something and it doesn't work, then it fucking well should be changed.
I would say (yet again) that the backs' problems are at 10 and the game plan. If you won't change those, then nobody in the backs is really getting a fair go.
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@mariner4life said in England v All Blacks:
@game_film said in England v All Blacks:
I honestly think Beauden is calling it after Wales
something in his face as he left the field on sunday gave me the same impression TBH
But thats also bollox if it happens, even if I want him gone.
We have spent 2 years of this World Cup cycle with him getting the most minutes at ten.
Shows a player and coach not on the same page.
Im sure Hansen was aware McCaw and Carters last rodeo was the 2015 final.
Would Razor pick Beauden as his 10 for two years if he knew he was going mid cycle?
Love/Jacomb/DMAC could have got more minutes.
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@reprobate I am not sure it is that harsh, even the casual observer can see the weaknesses in Jordan's game and how they would be far more apparent at 15, just ask @Bones.
The casual observer could also see the huge upside Rieko brought to the team on defense, and could also see that his attacking ability could be much better utilised by giving him a yard of space instead of using him as a crash ball merchant. It was also obvious to the casual observer that Proctor was never going to be suitable for the way they want to use the centre, with the added downside of being much poorer defensively.
Nearly every single issue with the current side that casual observers were pointing out have come to pass. And they came to pass in a BIG way against an English side that didn't even play close to their own potential, without even mentioning all the other record losses under these clowns.
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@reprobate said in England v All Blacks:
@No-Quarter I think that's a bit harsh.
I would say (yet again) that the backs' problems are at 10 and the game plan. If you won't change those, then nobody in the backs is really getting a fair go.
That only applies to attack though. Beauden has actually been a reliable tackle this year.
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@No-Quarter said in England v All Blacks:
against an English side that didn't even play close to their own potential,
this is it eh. They didn't play well and yet we conceded 33 points.
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@brodean said in England v All Blacks:
@reprobate said in England v All Blacks:
@No-Quarter I think that's a bit harsh.
I would say (yet again) that the backs' problems are at 10 and the game plan. If you won't change those, then nobody in the backs is really getting a fair go.
That only applies to attack though. Beauden has actually been a reliable tackle this year.
Yeah he has defended solidly, I have no issue there.
On the weekend: Carter's miss and in a no-win situation he couldn't make the cover tackle, and he got run over by a forward on the line - but that's not his fault, he shouldn't have to defend in those positions.
It's stifling the attack that's the issue. -
@No-Quarter said in England v All Blacks:
@reprobate I am not sure it is that harsh, even the casual observer can see the weaknesses in Jordan's game and how they would be far more apparent at 15, just ask @Bones.
The casual observer could also see the huge upside Rieko brought to the team on defense, and could also see that his attacking ability could be much better utilised by giving him a yard of space instead of using him as a crash ball merchant. It was also obvious to the casual observer that Proctor was never going to be suitable for the way they want to use the centre, with the added downside of being much poorer defensively.
Nearly every single issue with the current side that casual observers were pointing out have come to pass. And they came to pass in a BIG way against an English side that didn't even play close to their own potential, without even mentioning all the other record losses under these clowns.
Equally a shitload of casual observers would have been happy to see Jordan there and Ioane out though bro.
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@reprobate said in England v All Blacks:
@No-Quarter I think that's a bit harsh.
Yes Jordan has glaring weaknesses, but he's no worse than our other options under the high ball. His blinkers and poor passing cause issues on the wing too. He was the best fullback in Super, it's worth a go.
Ioane was not flourishing at 13 last year, and there was a lot of criticism on here. Proctor was outstanding in Super as was Tupaea, and Jordie carved it up up north. Again worth a go.Having said that, if you try something and it doesn't work, then it fucking well should be changed.
I would say (yet again) that the backs' problems are at 10 and the game plan. If you won't change those, then nobody in the backs is really getting a fair go.
It is interesting question though
if Super just isn't good enough prep for test level
or if our players at Super require different skills as ABs
and/or if the coaching (skills and strategy) at AB level is incapable of helping players play to a higher level. -
@No-Quarter thing is, we have missed the opportunity with Rieko, hisnpacebisnt what it was, yet back through Fozzie years, they wanted him there crashing it up, but ignoring his pace.
They wanted a 12 like Laumape.with Goodhues brain, so asked Goodhue to play like Laumape, instead of utilising Laumape for his trick.
Been some real issues.ths past years about how they want to play and shoehorning players in rather than the best player for the position
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@reprobate said in England v All Blacks:
@brodean said in England v All Blacks:
@reprobate said in England v All Blacks:
@No-Quarter I think that's a bit harsh.
I would say (yet again) that the backs' problems are at 10 and the game plan. If you won't change those, then nobody in the backs is really getting a fair go.
That only applies to attack though. Beauden has actually been a reliable tackle this year.
Yeah he has defended solidly, I have no issue there.
On the weekend: Carter's miss and in a no-win situation he couldn't make the cover tackle, and he got run over by a forward on the line - but that's not his fault, he shouldn't have to defend in those positions.
It's stifling the attack that's the issue.BB is a better handbrake than the English rush D
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@taniwharugby said in England v All Blacks:
@No-Quarter thing is, we have missed the opportunity with Rieko, hisnpacebisnt what it was, yet back through Fozzie years, they wanted him there crashing it up, but ignoring his pace.
They wanted a 12 like Laumape.with Goodhues brain, so asked Goodhue to play like Laumape, instead of utilising Laumape for his trick.
Been some real issues.ths past years about how they want to play and shoehorning players in rather than the best player for the position
Ability to select well has been on the wane since about 2017
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@reprobate said in England v All Blacks:
The way Jordan stopped running when Darry threw him a bad pass looked very much like 'fuck these useless fluffybunnies, I'm not cleaning that up'. Not a good look, especially from someone strong on the shit pass himself.
If you listened to the most persistent broken record on the fern, you wouldn't be surprised though. I'm sure he's a nice guy, but the way he plays rugby you'd swear he refers to himself in the 3rd person. On the field it's all about Will Jordan.
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@Bones said in England v All Blacks:
@reprobate said in England v All Blacks:
The way Jordan stopped running when Darry threw him a bad pass looked very much like 'fuck these useless fluffybunnies, I'm not cleaning that up'. Not a good look, especially from someone strong on the shit pass himself.
If you listened to the most persistent broken record on the fern, you wouldn't be surprised though. I'm sure he's a nice guy, but the way he plays rugby you'd swear he refers to himself in the 3rd person. On the field it's all about Will Jordan.
Reprobate wonders if you noticed BB was a bit shit too.
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@reprobate said in England v All Blacks:
@Bones said in England v All Blacks:
@reprobate said in England v All Blacks:
The way Jordan stopped running when Darry threw him a bad pass looked very much like 'fuck these useless fluffybunnies, I'm not cleaning that up'. Not a good look, especially from someone strong on the shit pass himself.
If you listened to the most persistent broken record on the fern, you wouldn't be surprised though. I'm sure he's a nice guy, but the way he plays rugby you'd swear he refers to himself in the 3rd person. On the field it's all about Will Jordan.
Reprobate wonders if you noticed BB was a bit shit too.
If we take the logic in the get a grip thread, I'm pretty sure there was a moment in the game where he was the best player on the field.
