Ashes 2025/6
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@MN5 an interesting article but only really shows one side of the story. Seam movement was definitely the theme for the series and the pitches assisted with that, but the batsmen played a part in their own demise even against the really good deliveries. Being able to play with soft hands so edges don't carry as often, and not chase the ball or play inside it when it moves is a lost art today. Kane is one of the few remaining players that is really good at it but he is aging, gone are the likes of Amla, Dravid etc who were experts at surviving a seaming ball. The young talent coming through today is mostly players that can hit the ball around in the shorter forms, and are too talented to overlook for tests but have not developed the skillset to survive tougher conditions.
Often these days tests that have batting friendly pitches end up in high scoring games with results as the run rate batsmen set today is so high. The flip side is we get 2 day tests and the groundsmen get roasted if the ball is doing a bit.
(Edit - thanks for sharing as it was good read)
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@No-Quarter said in Ashes 2025/6:
@MN5 an interesting article but only really shows one side of the story. Seam movement was definitely the theme for the series and the pitches assisted with that, but the batsmen played a part in their own demise even against the really good deliveries. Being able to play with soft hands so edges don't carry as often, and not chase the ball or play inside it when it moves is a lost art today. Kane is one of the few remaining players that is really good at it but he is aging, gone are the likes of Amla, Dravid etc who were experts at surviving a seaming ball. The young talent coming through today is mostly players that can hit the ball around in the shorter forms, and are too talented to overlook for tests but have not developed the skillset to survive tougher conditions.
Often these days tests that have batting friendly pitches end up in high scoring games with results as the run rate batsmen set today is so high. The flip side is we get 2 day tests and the groundsmen get roasted if the ball is doing a bit.
Chanderpaul is another of that ilk although he batted a bit lower than them.
Yeah guys these days are a bit damned whether they do or don't.
I'm certainly glad some of the scoring rates of 20-25 years ago are a thing of the past but conversely so many guys seem to want to hit their way out of trouble rather than have the mindset of battling to survive, graft and rebuild. Hitting out worked for Brook in the last test I guess.
Bazball is a massive factor in this.
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Bazball has played it's part with England who was stuck in the old mindset for a long time, but the Aussies are the ones that have led the way with aggressive test match batting. They did used to have the lineup to do it though...
Yeah Chanderpaul is another, I always really liked him as a player, got the most out of his ability. I also agree that it's not necessarily a bad thing, far more tests get results these days and they are generally more entertaining to watch, but we do have to accept 2 - 3 day tests sometimes if the weather conditions lead to the pitch doing more than the groundsmen want. 2 - 3 day tests are great fun in themselves, but also means we don't have nearly as much test cricket on!
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@No-Quarter said in Ashes 2025/6:
Bazball has played it's part with England who was stuck in the old mindset for a long time, but the Aussies are the ones that have led the way with aggressive test match batting. They did used to have the lineup to do it though...
Yeah Chanderpaul is another, I always really liked him as a player, got the most out of his ability. I also agree that it's not necessarily a bad thing, far more tests get results these days and they are generally more entertaining to watch, but we do have to accept 2 - 3 day tests sometimes if the weather conditions lead to the pitch doing more than the groundsmen want. 2 - 3 day tests are great fun in themselves, but also means we don't have nearly as much test cricket on!
Yeah Oz kicked things off with Hayden, Ponting, GIlly ( especially ) capable of big ( and rapid ) scoring with others grafting somewhat in comparison around them.
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Australia
1 Jake Weatherald, 2 Travis Head, 3 Marnus Labuschagne, 4 Steven Smith (capt), 5 Usman Khawaja, 6 Alex Carey (wk), 7 Cameron Green, 8 Beau Webster, 9 Michael Neser, 10 Mitchell Starc, 11 Scott BolandEngland
1 Zak Crawley, 2 Ben Duckett, 3 Jacob Bethell, 4 Joe Root, 5 Harry Brook, 6 Ben Stokes (capt), 7 Jamie Smith (wk), 8 Will Jacks, 9 Brydon Carse, 10 Matthew Potts, 11 Josh Tongue -
Interesting seeing Webster and Green shoehorned into the same team. With the series sewn up I guess there's room for experimentation.
Speaking of "all rounders" I see Jacob Bethel is listed as one in cricinfo ( 13 first class wickets at 70 )
They love throwing that term around these days.
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The talk about bazball and shit pitches is rubbish.
Today the 3 English wickets have had fuck all to do with mindset, but techniques. Both openers played poorly to okay deliveries. Bad shape. No feet.
Bethel at least got an absolute peach. -
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@Donsteppa said in Ashes 2025/6:
Cam Green 0/45 off 6 so far. Not sure he's even making the 1990's Black Cap all rounders with that economy rate.
MCG was both shit batting (both sides) and an overly spicy pitch.
Shades of Shane Thomson, Dipak Patel, Chris Harris and Justin Vaughan in his Ashes performances so far. Maybe this is the test he justifies that massive amount paid for him. Regardless of that a guy who has taken just over one wicket per test is not an all rounder.
Root and Brook looking to finally get that huge partnership guys of their abilities should have got when the series was still on the line. Both going great.
Not sure when Englands next test is but with their top three shitting the bed yet again I reckon these two need to move up a spot and they need to find someone to bat five. It's not often you see a guy as good as Brook there. Perhaps Stokes could fill the role or they could drop Bethell down a couple of spaces.
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@MN5 said in Ashes 2025/6:
@Donsteppa said in Ashes 2025/6:
Cam Green 0/45 off 6 so far. Not sure he's even making the 1990's Black Cap all rounders with that economy rate.
MCG was both shit batting (both sides) and an overly spicy pitch.
Not sure when Englands next test is
It's against the BCs starting June 4th at Lord's.
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@sparky said in Ashes 2025/6:
@MN5 said in Ashes 2025/6:
@Donsteppa said in Ashes 2025/6:
Cam Green 0/45 off 6 so far. Not sure he's even making the 1990's Black Cap all rounders with that economy rate.
MCG was both shit batting (both sides) and an overly spicy pitch.
Not sure when Englands next test is
It's against the BCs starting June 4th at Lord's.
Thanks fella, I'm sure McCullum reads the fern and will take my advice on board. He could start in the second innings as a matter of fact.
But yeah, Bazball aside the two best batsmen in the team generally bat three and four. Having one at five seems odd.
Covers are on the field, looks like a storm might be on the way which sux for England.
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@Cyclops said in Ashes 2025/6:
I think England would be better with Root at 3 and Brook at 4, but I don't think it's totally crazy to have your best batters at 4 and 5. Steve Waugh spent most of his career at 5.
He batted six a lot too as if to totally disprove my theory ( obviously liked his bro protecting him ) but in general the two best are 3/4.
Viv Richards shifted to 5/6 towards the end of his career as did Allan Border.
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Yeah I think it's a point in Kane's favour when your compare him to Smith, Root and Kohli that he has almost always batted at 3. Much tougher spot to bat than 4. Kohli and Smith always had a world class 3 in front of them that kind of justified it, but no such excuses for Root.
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England's problem is a shortage of quality batting options beyond Root and Brook.
The top four performers in the Top Division of county cricket last year were Dom Sibley, Haseeb Hameed, Adam Lyth and Alex Lees all of whom have Test averages in the 20s.
James Wharton and James Coles are probably the best two young uncapped England batsmen, but both average in the high 30s in first class cricket. Neither look like world-beaters.
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@Cyclops said in Ashes 2025/6:
Yeah I think it's a point in Kane's favour when your compare him to Smith, Root and Kohli that he has almost always batted at 3. Much tougher spot to bat than 4. Kohli and Smith always had a world class 3 in front of them that kind of justified it, but no such excuses for Root.
Historically the best 3/4 at the same time would be Dravid and Tendulkar.
Easier for the little master to dominate with the wall guarding him for so long.
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