Super Rugby - The Future
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@nzzp said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@gt12 said in Super Rugby - The Future:
About 5 years ago Super rugby represented the southern hemisphere, even one Argie side mattered.
I'd go so far as to say, the periods when Super is strong correlate with All Black/southern hemisphere dominance.
It's been brutally mismanaged. We got to 18 sides remember, and then the bottom fell out. We're now at 11 and possibly 10, and they are marginally sustainable. There is no doubt in my mind the quality of Super over the last 10 years has been in decline (possibly this year excepted).
There were still 3 SH sides in the RWC semis mind you.
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@Kiwiwomble When we lived in SA we could watch the NZ games in the morning, then any Aus match and that would fold in to the home games in SA. It was a whole day's viewing if you wished.
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having had a read of the collective agreement thread, i'd be happy to give SR to the players
they threatened to go their own way, so give it to them and see we they can do
i.e. SANZAR SR being completely separated out and left to operate independentlya lot/most? sports have their pro branch separated out from the national sports associations
just so long as NZR doesn't grant them any money, let the comp survive or die on its own
the only NZR involvement would be the loan to SR of their AB contracted players, which is sort of what happens now
NZR would be responsible for the black teams, and grass roots/development -
I watch it but highlights package on YouTube
Sky prices in the UK are a joke
So I know what's going on and enjoy the product but don't get counted in the stats
I can't be alone in that
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@WoodysRFC said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@Bones said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@Nepia don't forget Super Rugby doesn't prepare players for international rugby if I conveniently ignore many in form SR players delivering at test time.
Apparently it's a lesser competition to the Top 14, URC, and English Prem too.
Top 14, right now yes. URC and English Prem, nope.
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@mariner4life said in Exodus:
The year before a RWC is always big as well.
so the incumbents dont even have the illusion of someone looking over their shoulder....im sure we'll see the best performances from people that feel it doesn't matter how well they play
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@hikastags I think in the past we have had the stocks coming through, had the systems and coaches to keep things rolling despite the pressure from all the players leaving, however in the past half dozen or so years these exits are really starting to tell, particularly the coaching losses.
We may well still be producing the athletes, but it would seem its our coaching, technical skills and development of players that are being found wanting.
I dont think it is too late to turn it around, but I am not convinced we have the right people in place (upper echelons of NZR and overall coaching at all levels) to make changes before we are terminal.
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@taniwharugby said in Exodus:
@hikastags I think in the past we have had the stocks coming through, had the systems and coaches to keep things rolling despite the pressure from all the players leaving, however in the past half dozen or so years these exits are really starting to tell, particularly the coaching losses.
We may well still be producing the athletes, but it would seem its our coaching, technical skills and development of players that are being found wanting.
I dont think it is too late to turn it around, but I am not convinced we have the right people in place (upper echelons of NZR and overall coaching at all levels) to make changes before we are terminal.
Yeah agree... It's not looking good atm. Super Rugby needs to realise paying your elite players a maximum of 185k is complete dogshit.
Some half-decent management at NZRU would also be a great start. We lose players like AJ Lam, yet we have the likes of ALB as a top-10 highest paid AB chewing almost $1million in salary cap... ALB is so mediocre he can only get 183mins total for these shitty Razor ABs.
If Super wants to get back to being great, then Aussie needs to start pulling finger as they're the ones who can raise the ceiling of the competition.
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@DurryMexted said in Exodus:
To be fair, to date hes a 25 year old who has played maybe 20 games of super rugby? If he doesnt take it, hes banking on being a ~27 year old in 2028 hoping to have a break out season and make the ABs. risky at best unless he really loves playing super rugby
That's a damning indictment on player development and progression.
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i have said it before, and i will continue to say it again and again no matter how often the misty-eyed NPC tragics tell me i am wrong.
The problem is our season structure is completey fucked and no longer fit for purpose. Our 2nd tier of player have all their elite rugby finished by June for the year. They will no longer play with, or against, even NZs best players, for the next 7 months. 35 ABs will disappear to play 14 games (well, probably 8-10 will play some part in 3 or 4) every one else gets to kick rocks in park footy.
The rest of the world has their best players and their up and comers playing each other pretty much all year, with short international breaks.
Fuck, we even let some of our elite players piss off overseas.
Those who say the NPC is still essential sound exactly like the guys we laugh at for saying Aus rugby was best when they just had the Shute Shield so they should just go back to that.
1998 was a very, very long time ago.
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@reprobate said in Exodus:
Pushing everyone down a spot and making them more likely to leave is fine. That's competition.
What's not fine is pushing everyone down a spot temporarily when the global pinnacle happens, so a guy can have his cake and eat it.I guess that's still competition - Richie has opened the door wide and given all comers a shot at "his" jersey and appears to be backing himself to be able to come back and take it back. We've yet to see how that pans out.
The issue I have with this perception is Richie's doesn't have to earn it back. His seat is being kept warm for him.
All parties know this.
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This is a reflection of the top-down approach to salaries by NZR, where you only maximise your income by being in the ABs, or are a marquee player. The NRL salary model would prevent so many players heading overseas as the majority of your salary would be for SR.
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@mariner4life i think the problems run deeper than npc in whatever format you have it.
Issues start before the npc, then the timing and format of it is a separate issue.
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@taniwharugby said in Exodus:
@mariner4life i think the problems run deeper than npc in whatever format you have it.
Issues start before the npc, then the timing and format of it is a separate issue.
i am not blaming the NPC, i am blaming the hold it has on NZ rugby's way of thinking (of course linked to the tail wagging the dog self interest evident everywhere).
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@mariner4life said in Exodus:
i have said it before, and i will continue to say it again and again no matter how often the misty-eyed NPC tragics tell me i am wrong.
The problem is our season structure is completey fucked and no longer fit for purpose. Our 2nd tier of player have all their elite rugby finished by June for the year. They will no longer play with, or against, even NZs best players, for the next 7 months. 35 ABs will disappear to play 14 games (well, probably 8-10 will play some part in 3 or 4) every one else gets to kick rocks in park footy.
The rest of the world has their best players and their up and comers playing each other pretty much all year, with short international breaks.
Fuck, we even let some of our elite players piss off overseas.
Those who say the NPC is still essential sound exactly like the guys we laugh at for saying Aus rugby was best when they just had the Shute Shield so they should just go back to that.
1998 was a very, very long time ago.
agreed with almost every word, i think we still need the NPC whilst we only have 5 super teams with a season that ends so early, slightly larger and long super season and the NPC can drop back and be a full amateur rep comp
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@mariner4life yes thats another major issue, so may players play fuck all rugby.
I mean you get those named in June series Squads, off the back end of a few great super games, play fuck all through then into TRC, some back to NPC and then named in the AB EOYT squad, play 3 mins on the EOYT then you dont restart your super training until late, you have managed super minutes, I believe this is all under the collective agreement with NZRPA.
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I take on board what is being said about the pro domestic structure.
But I'm of the opinion that at this level NZ is never going to have the financials to compete with the rest of the rugby world, and be able to retain this level of player.It is at the next level, the national team, that is absolutely critical.
NZ is competitive financially at the international level, and should be able to retain most of the players they really want.They just have to make the right picks of the players that are continually coming thru.
Remembering that they always have the first pick of those players.
So long as the domestic structure is helping ID the players for the NT, I dont care what it looks like.
Because whatever that structure is, it is never going to amount to much.
185G is already maxing it, which ever way they do it.As for those who don't make it into the NT stream . . . c'est la vie . . . do what all other kiwis who want to make a quid do . . . join the exodus.
