Super Rugby - The Future
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That's a point a lot of people don't understand. They keep speaking like any changes will just shuffle the same amount of cash around. There's ways of making a much more compelling competition which would increase the revenue
One thing I think NZR has really got its head around, is the financials.
If there is any spare revenue floating around in the NZ economy, they'll be on to it in a flash.
Looks like NZR have kinda written off domestic pro rugby.
If there was any possibility of making a meaningful change, they'd have done it.
It is a just a drain on their line.It was compelling in olden times; 40 or 50,000 at a Ranfurly shield game; world class players all over the field . . . great days.
And they were astute enough to further develop that into Super Rugby. Then somewhere along the way they ruined it instead of cleverly adapting it.
It was clear a long time ago that Australia couldn't compete on an equal footing. To me, and I've said this before, the answer was to dilute the strength of the New Zealand squads by adding more. Then you'd have a 30 week competition (10 NZ teams and 5 Oz) which would add the seasonal amount of rugby required, would boost the skill and depth element of players through opportunity, and grow the market in Australia because they'd no longer be regular whipping boys.
More interest. More games. More value to broadcasters.
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@SouthernMann said in Exodus:
Having 20 semi professional/professional teams across two competitions is stupid.
We do not have 20 pro teams in NZ as far as the players are concerned.
We have 5 for half the season, then there is a reshuffle of those players, and 9 more teams worth of players are brought in for the second half; so 14.(And one teams worth of players [the best players] taken out in the second half of the season, the one team that makes the money to pay all the players).
So that is 5, + 9 more later in the season, as far as the players are concerned.
BS model, but with the current financials, a marginal improvement might be made somewhere, but nothing that will be of much dif to the players pockets.
Looks like NZR has accepted this situation.As for rugby league in NZ, well . . . the direction things are heading RN . . . i can see the Kiwis being a very very good team in 20 years time.
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Yep, I want to keep the NPC. Why? Because it probably the best and enjoyable comp in the country. Does it cost NZR money, yep, but I only looking at it as what I want.
Haha
The older ferners can remember when NZ did have a world class domestic rugby comp.
Big crowds, great players, great games.
So sad for the younguns; at least the olduns have the memories. -
Super Rugby isn't driving enough revenue.
I think the long-term solution is going to be a joint Japanese, Australian and NZ franchise rugby competition to replace Super Rugby. Then some sort of play offs against the top European teams.
The status quo is slowly dying.
League is the smaller sport in Europe. Super League average attendances are about 10,000 compared to 15,000 in the Guinness Premiership or 12,000 in League One (third tier) football and the United Rugby Championship.
European club rugby will remain an attractive destination for players in the second half of their careers.
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Super Rugby isn't driving enough revenue.
I think the long-term solution is going to be a joint Japanese, Australian and NZ franchise rugby competition to replace Super Rugby. Then some sort of play offs against the top European teams.
The status quo is slowly dying.
League is the smaller sport in Europe. Super League average attendances are about 10,000 compared to 15,000 in the Guinness Premiership or 12,000 in League One (third tier) football and the United Rugby Championship.
European club rugby will remain an attractive destination for players in the second half of their careers.
I agree. The intractable problem is that Australian rugby is not high enough up the food chain in the codes in Australia and NZ is a much smaller country than Japan, France & England. So, revenue wise Super rugby has a limited ceiling.
Fiji, Samoa & Tonga are small ponds.
NZ, Aus rugby union, Ireland, Wales and Scotland are medium sized ponds.
France and England are big ponds.NRL is more akin to France and England RU in terms of financial muscle. The only way for super rugby to compete with these bigger operations would be to expand to new markets. I don't see any other way that you could generate/grow more revenue.
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@mariner4life said in Exodus:
they already have the superior game to watch (but, importantly, not play) and a fuck ton of money. I reckon they are good.
Rugby can just become for the Europeans.
You Aussies can have your f***en league if you think it superior to watch.
Rugby can stay for NZ, South Africans and Europeans.
In case you didn't realise , I think League is a shit boring game, and genuinely can't turn brain off enough to sit through a game. And don't drink enough to numb the brain to enjoy it.
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@SouthernMann said in Exodus:
Having 20 semi professional/professional teams across two competitions is stupid.
We do not have 20 pro teams in NZ as far as the players are concerned.
We have 5 for half the season, then there is a reshuffle of those players, and 9 more teams worth of players are brought in for the second half; so 14.(And one teams worth of players [the best players] taken out in the second half of the season, the one team that makes the money to pay all the players).
So that is 5, + 9 more later in the season, as far as the players are concerned.
BS model, but with the current financials, a marginal improvement might be made somewhere, but nothing that will be of much dif to the players pockets.
Looks like NZR has accepted this situation.As for rugby league in NZ, well . . . the direction things are heading RN . . . i can see the Kiwis being a very very good team in 20 years time.
This isn't about the players per se, this is about driving further profit (which can be passed on to players) through reducing costs by reducing the number of pro / semi-pro organizations and creating a better product that broadcasters will pay for (as opposed to NPC).
That's totally apart from the fact that having only one pro team to play for will give more stability and opportunity for development.
I think there is general agreement on here from many that 8-10 teams (depending on how MP and the Drua are counted) would be the ideal number.
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The first move should be to merge the admin ops of the SR clubs with Auck/Waik/Wel/Cant Otago PUs.
There must be duplication there, and this should have already been done.
Will be immediate savings.Threading about the players . . .
If you drop from 14 teams down to 8 or 10, that'll mean you've ditched 4 to 6 teams worth of players.
The remaining players could then get pay rises straight away, even if the overall financials have not altered.
But, what are all the excess to requirements then guna do.
They'll be exodusing, probably even sooner than they do now.
And maybe create extra oportunity for that 20 team west island comp.The 14 district team model does cover NZ demographics quite neatly; if all we are looking to do is create a pathway; which is pretty much all dom rugby is at present.
As for MP and Drua, I know they get some sort of contribution from NZR/SRP.
I'm hoping/assuming Fiji get some good revenue from the new Nations Champ; rather than being screwed over like they have been forever.
The Drua players might end up with some more love.
MP financials are particularly murky (even political).Often thought a league like the NBA could double the number of franchises; therefore doubling the number of players, and still pay them all outstanding money.
Supposing expansion has not happened because the current franchise owners are worried that the asset value of their franchises will fall, but that's a different issue. -
The first move should be to merge the admin ops of the SR clubs with Auck/Waik/Wel/Cant Otago PUs.
There must be duplication there, and this should have already been done.
Will be immediate savings.Threading about the players . . .
If you drop from 14 teams down to 8 or 10, that'll mean you've ditched 4 to 6 teams worth of players.
The remaining players could then get pay rises straight away, even if the overall financials have not altered.
But, what are all the excess to requirements then guna do.
They'll be exodusing, probably even sooner than they do now.
And maybe create extra oportunity for that 20 team west island comp.The 14 district team model does cover NZ demographics quite neatly; if all we are looking to do is create a pathway; which is pretty much all dom rugby is at present.
As for MP and Drua, I know they get some sort of contribution from NZR/SRP.
I'm hoping/assuming Fiji get some good revenue from the new Nations Champ; rather than being screwed over like they have been forever.
The Drua players might end up with some more love.
MP financials are particularly murky (even political).Often thought a league like the NBA could double the number of franchises; therefore doubling the number of players, and still pay them all outstanding money.
Supposing expansion has not happened because the current franchise owners are worried that the asset value of their franchises will fall, but that's a different issue.One thing I don't get about SR is why they don't have an expansionist mindset.
NRL plays in Vegas once a year, all major league US Sports play some type of overseas game or pre season game once a year. European football teams always tour every summer.
Why not play a SR game in the UK once a year? Or Japan?
It's like they have settled on it being a domestic comp with no international reach and no ambition to grow.
There seems to be no vision or marketing.
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@nonpartizan crusaders did that a couple of times didn't they? I vaguely remember it not being appreciated by fans.
Also, it's already played in 5(?) countries?
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@nonpartizan costs are prohibitive in that we dont see much sharing of games within the franchise regions, let alone much outside of that.
I assume the models are the same (and havent changed in the past few years) with each franchise, but the Blues charge NRU to host games, so there is that cost on top of all the other shit that goes with hosting a game.
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I think one thing we forget when the idea of taking games to other places (even in region) is how it stuffs up your season members . ie me and Mrs (like quite a few) are members at Taranaki (I realise this is super but same thing) and we have brought and paid for prem tickets at Yarrows up in New Plymouth, even if they moved games down closer to where we live, we lose seating etc. Same would happen in super, making it less attractive to become members etc wouldn't it?
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The first move should be to merge the admin ops of the SR clubs with Auck/Waik/Wel/Cant Otago PUs.
There must be duplication there, and this should have already been done.I not sure there would be a lot of duplication would there? I have been on a club board and at same time a provincial board, and there was no duplication there as such and don't see as how there would be much in this case.
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The first move should be to merge the admin ops of the SR clubs with Auck/Waik/Wel/Cant Otago PUs.
There must be duplication there, and this should have already been done.I not sure there would be a lot of duplication would there? I have been on a club board and at same time a provincial board, and there was no duplication there as such and don't see as how there would be much in this case.
There are heaps of duplications that could be managed.
Academies
Promotions/marcoms
Ticketing
Leasing of office spaces
Vehicle fleet
Sponsors
Administration/payroll functions
Training aids and equipmentThe list can go on. The organisation would be split into two. Professional/high performance and community. With an agreement that a certain amount of funding needs to be provided to the community game.
The same argument around rugby is occuring with local government at the moment with amalgamation. Just like rugby unions. We have far too many Councils and a lot are trying to keep the status quo.
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@SouthernMann said in Exodus:
The first move should be to merge the admin ops of the SR clubs with Auck/Waik/Wel/Cant Otago PUs.
There must be duplication there, and this should have already been done.I not sure there would be a lot of duplication would there? I have been on a club board and at same time a provincial board, and there was no duplication there as such and don't see as how there would be much in this case.
There are heaps of duplications that could be managed.
Academies
Promotions/marcoms
Ticketing
Leasing of office spaces
Vehicle fleet
Sponsors
Administration/payroll functions
Training aids and equipmentThe list can go on. The organisation would be split into two. Professional/high performance and community. With an agreement that a certain amount of funding needs to be provided to the community game.
The same argument around rugby is occuring with local government at the moment with amalgamation. Just like rugby unions. We have far too many Councils and a lot are trying to keep the status quo.
I think maybe there is a bit of misunderstanding of how these boards operate. They quite seperate things with completely different jobs etc. And many things like ticketing are run by things like ticketek, sponsorship is same, why would a super club split sponsorship with one province in their area, even vehicle fleet, why double your number so both lots can use them, most provinces pay bugger all if anything for cars etc ,they come from sponsors etc with in region.. They really are seperate identities with such seperate needs.
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Glad you are coming around, they are different with different needs and serve different purposes.
So let’s get them out of using too much cash trying to win a semi-pro competition so they have to spend more of their money on their core role - growing the game at the grass roots.
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even vehicle fleet, why double your number so both lots can use them
Uh?
You are guna halve the number of vehicles (and people) needed, with a merger between a SR Club and SR PU.
That's the whole idea.
And i'd say it is guna happen, because NZR has already said that's what they want to do.
SR clubs and SR PUs share a lot of the same players, so they can share the administrators too, no prob.
I assume they already do share to some extent.
That's how they were set up originally.
You couldn't do it if both comps ran concurrently, but they dont.As for duplication between the Taranaki PU, a Taranaki club, and an SR club; you are right, there would be virtually none.
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@taniwharugby said in Exodus:
Blues charge NRU to host games
Fuck, I didn't know that.
I think it is the other way round when a PU gets an AB game.
The reason why the Auckland and Canterbury PUs are so financial, because they get the most Test matches. -
@taniwharugby said in Exodus:
@nonpartizan costs are prohibitive in that we dont see much sharing of games within the franchise regions, let alone much outside of that.
I assume the models are the same (and havent changed in the past few years) with each franchise, but the Blues charge NRU to host games, so there is that cost on top of all the other shit that goes with hosting a game.
Fair enough, you and others know far more about the actual specifics. I'm in the outside looking in.
For me I see what these overseas games do to "enhance their footprint" to use the corporate terminology and then also look at what some of those netflix documentaries have done for Wrexham and F1 and I can't help feeling Super rugby is missing a trick.
I think with the right documentary maker last years Moana Pasifika season would have produced some truly incredible content.
