All Blacks v Ireland II
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@mariner4life said in Ireland II:
@SimonAdd_2 yep, it's all in the timing, and who the ref happened to be looking at. They clamped down on the attacking #8 changing channels a couple of years ago to combat this very thing. Heaslip definitely unbinds early, and tries to re-bind (penalisable) but i think Read does go first. Result: Penalty Ireland. But again, to call "blatant!!" and whinge for more than just the penalty is fucking ludicrous.
This really is delicious. I always loved beating the Irish more than anyone else because of their huge amounts of entitled whinging, but had softened, especially after the other week. The last couple of days has set the world straight again.
Sorry Pot Hale, you've been pretty good recently, but some of your compatriots need to have a fucking look at themselves. Just shows that expectation is a bitch.
I've been pretty good recently?
Gosh thanks ever so much Mr Mariner. Thank God I didn't offend you or behave like one of my compatriots who are unique amongst sport fans the world over in that some of them complain or whinge about some aspect of a game they've watched. Totally aberrant behaviour.
@Pot-Hale said in Ireland II:
@mariner4life said in Ireland II:
@SimonAdd_2 yep, it's all in the timing, and who the ref happened to be looking at. They clamped down on the attacking #8 changing channels a couple of years ago to combat this very thing. Heaslip definitely unbinds early, and tries to re-bind (penalisable) but i think Read does go first. Result: Penalty Ireland. But again, to call "blatant!!" and whinge for more than just the penalty is fucking ludicrous.
This really is delicious. I always loved beating the Irish more than anyone else because of their huge amounts of entitled whinging, but had softened, especially after the other week. The last couple of days has set the world straight again.
Sorry Pot Hale, you've been pretty good recently, but some of your compatriots need to have a fucking look at themselves. Just shows that expectation is a bitch.
I've been pretty good recently?
Gosh thanks ever so much Mr Mariner. Thank God I didn't offend you or behave like one of my compatriots who are unique amongst sport fans the world over in that some of them complain or whinge about some aspect of a game they've watched. Totally aberrant behaviour.
You've been particularly good this weekend. Not watching the game and therefore not Really commenting on it. That's how we like foreign fans the best.
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@Pot-Hale said in Ireland II:
@mariner4life said in Ireland II:
@SimonAdd_2 yep, it's all in the timing, and who the ref happened to be looking at. They clamped down on the attacking #8 changing channels a couple of years ago to combat this very thing. Heaslip definitely unbinds early, and tries to re-bind (penalisable) but i think Read does go first. Result: Penalty Ireland. But again, to call "blatant!!" and whinge for more than just the penalty is fucking ludicrous.
This really is delicious. I always loved beating the Irish more than anyone else because of their huge amounts of entitled whinging, but had softened, especially after the other week. The last couple of days has set the world straight again.
Sorry Pot Hale, you've been pretty good recently, but some of your compatriots need to have a fucking look at themselves. Just shows that expectation is a bitch.
I've been pretty good recently?
Gosh thanks ever so much Mr Mariner. Thank God I didn't offend you or behave like one of my compatriots who are unique amongst sport fans the world over in that some of them complain or whinge about some aspect of a game they've watched. Totally aberrant behaviour.
You've been particularly good this weekend. Not watching the game and therefore not Really commenting on it. That's how we like foreign fans the best.
@Rapido said in Ireland II:
You've been particularly good this weekend. Not watching the game and therefore not Really commenting on it. That's how we like foreign fans the best.
@Pot-Hale has been good as he hasn't down the rabbit hole with the rest of the Irish media, believing that there is corruption at the top level in sport, that the ABs shouldn't have had two tries awarded, and that the All Blacks deliberately and cynically opponents knowing that the refs won't touch them.
All this hoo hah has taken the gloss off a magnificently physical test match that was a pleasure to watch.
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My 2 euro's worth
Think about how you'd be feeling if the jerseys were reversed...
Anyone who says they weren't worried until inside the last 5 minutes is deluded.
The paddies dominated the breakdown and that means you win the game 9 times out of 10. Our tactic of not committing numbers needs to be revisited.
Defence was in the main awesome although we did miss more 1-1's than I was comfortable with. When was the last time yoU saw 3 AB defenders run through? However our reliance on desperate defence is a major contributor to the yellows and despite sentiment here I think we could have had people off for longer. Fekitoa could easily have been given red on another day.
Didn't really have an issue with Smith's as it was effectively a team yellow for repeated infringing. Little prick shouldn't have been on the park by that stage anyway and shouldn't get a run until his form is back.
Peyper was influenced by the crowd but that's no surprise - he has previous form. Reckon the orchestrated complaining by Best and his teammates was counter-productive.
Initially thought that cane shouldn't have been binned but that video Simon posted looked bad - unintentional but bad
Retallick is a beast and whitelock isn't far behind. BB proved his class - Dagg and ALB proved what 20/20 hindsight said post Chicago and Ben from accounts looked better at 9 than the best halfback in the world.
Overall very relieved but thought we narrowly deserved the win because we scored when we had the opportunities and Ireland didn't. It must have been quite demoralising to keep on getting inside our danger zone and coming away empty handed.
Their backline didn't look capable of creating opportunity but I guess losing your two playmakers has to hurt.
Few myths demolished over the two games though - Ireland didn't run out of puff and their depth was pretty damn good. Potentially spices up Lions tour big time.
Very enjoyable true test footy. Although not good for the blood pressure of an old man
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@SimonAdd_2 said in Ireland II:
That's about as clear as it gets. Unfortunate for Cane as I think it was unintentional and Henshaw did spin into him, but it's a shoulder to the head that knocks a player unconscious. He'll get a few weeks' ban.
Fair enough, that angle does clear it up. Accidental but likely to cop a ban, though I don't agree that it should.
Incredible that Sexton wasn't cited given his was a calculated swinging arm.
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@No-Quarter Disagree. The angle from behind Cane clearly shows the head clash first. Really this is a lot of bleating about nothing. Purely accidental.
@broughie said in Ireland II:
@No-Quarter Disagree. The angle from behind Cane clearly shows the head clash first. Really this is a lot of bleating about nothing. Purely accidental.
Problem is that the second video "clearly" shows daylight between their heads the whole time.
I would agree that the first video complete with whinging commentators "appears" to show head on head contact but the second angle confirms it is just an optical illusion.Having said that i think it was accidental and wasn't worth a card or a ban.
Anyone got a slo mo replay of sextons swinging arm?Edit: unless of course the second angle just doesn't capture the frame or two that the head contact happens.
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On another topic, I have just been watching BBs try again (by the way was able to freeze frame a clear and obvious grounding) and the making of that break is a brilliant piece of planning by Foster to utilise BBs acceleration.
Basically Ireland's defensive pattern is illegal. Their halfback moves across to cover the attacking 10 channel before the scrum ends without dropping behind his 8.20.12
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The scrum half whose team does not win possession of the ball must not move away from the scrum and then remain in front of the offside line. For that scrum half that runs through the hindmost foot of that player’s team in the scrum.This means the 10 can drift to the attacking 12 etc creating an extra man in defence and looking to double team the ball carrier.
Instead of whinging to the ref about this what the ABs noticed is that the 10 will not come back in, he relies heavily on the 9 to cover the gap (which he usually can because he takes off early). So BB stationed himself wide and his outsides acted like they were going to be the ball carriers. AS then passed fast and long (better at this than TJP) and BB ran as close as he could to the inside shoulder of the 10 and just out of reach of the covering 9. The 10 could have easily tackled him but was relying on the 9. The initial pass was bang on, BBs speed and angle did the rest.I think this is what Foster meant in the post match when he said they spotted some players that pushed up and held in defence without actually wanting to tackle. It was exploited beautifully.
@Crucial said in Ireland II:
On another topic, I have just been watching BBs try again (by the way was able to freeze frame a clear and obvious grounding) and the making of that break is a brilliant piece of planning by Foster to utilise BBs acceleration.
Basically Ireland's defensive pattern is illegal. Their halfback moves across to cover the attacking 10 channel before the scrum ends without dropping behind his 8.20.12
(e)
The scrum half whose team does not win possession of the ball must not move away from the scrum and then remain in front of the offside line. For that scrum half that runs through the hindmost foot of that player’s team in the scrum.Thought he had to drop back 5m if he mived away from the scrum?
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The thing which causes a problem with videos replays from different angles is that you need to have a calibrated timer on each angle to make a proper comparison. In the Barrett try, from the right hand view in frame by frame one can see the white of one side of the ball lower than Sexton's wrist and touching the ground momentarily. The ball then rebounds and Sexton lifts it upwards. From the left view one can only see the side of the ball which was on Sexton's wrist and the uplift, which I believe happened AFTER the grounding. With calibrated timing one could be sure.
Haven't been able to get same clarity on Cane tackle. Hydro talks about two 'realities' but it is quite possible that the timings are out of synch. It looked to me from one angle like a contact between right side of Cane's face and Henshaw head, followed by a rebound/separation. From the other angle one never sees contact. What one really needs is to be able to look at the 'non-contact' angle whilst using the timer to tell the actual time point where the apparent contact on the other angle was. I'm guessing that at that point on the second angle one head may be obscured by the other, and that by the time one gets a clear view but sees clear daylight the contact had ALREADY happened. I hope the ABs have good video technicians for the hearing as it may be the case can be blown up by some good photos.
BTW Cane's ankle followed Heaslip's forearm making contact with his face. Didn't see any backswing but Cane's head shot backwards and he rolled his ankle. One could go on...
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Just had another look. My best guess is at the point where from one angle it appears like a head clash the other angle shows daylight, but Henshaw's head spinning into Cane's shoulder, in fact maybe doing so to avoid head clash.
For me not a case of headhunting, and not a card, but recognise panel may wish to make a point about head injuries and high tackles and give Canes a couple of week's paid leave.
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It's not worth doing any analysis on the Cane uproar.
Fact of the matter is that if that exact tackle had been done by the Irish, nobody, on either side would give a shit. All these "neutrals" would be quiet and there would be no demanding of anything.
It's a contact sport, these sorts of things happen - everybody knows it, everybody agrees it. Until it's the AB's and then suddenly it's a big issue.
Call me tin foil hat, whatever. As far as I'm concerned that's fact.
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@mariner4life said in Ireland II:
@Pot-Hale sarcasm will get you everywhere with me.
Well I was going to say - go suck balls, you pompous, sanctimonious, condescending, generalising squeezed up tight popcorn fart, but I thought I should reply politely. So I did.
Love and kisses. X
@Pot-Hale said in Ireland II:
@mariner4life said in Ireland II:
@Pot-Hale sarcasm will get you everywhere with me.
Well I was going to say - go suck balls, you pompous, sanctimonious, condescending, generalising squeezed up tight popcorn fart, but I thought I should reply politely. So I did.
Love and kisses. X
Excellent additions to the lexicon there.
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@Billy-Tell said in Ireland II:
@Stargazer said in Ireland II:
Pat T is heading home for personal reasons. Don't think he would have played anyway, but hope for him it's not another bereavement.
http://twitter.com/AllBlacks/status/800311226777661441
Edit: old news, I see ...
His form has been very disappointing. I hope "personal reasons" doesn't mean he's be on the booze, or broke team protocol etc.
I'm sorry Billy but I'm going to use your post as an example of what's fucked in the world of media and social media.
This leaping to speculative unfound conclusions in the hope of saying "see told ya" is grossly unfair.
The Hansen no comment strategy is designed to allow the man some privacy, not an invitation to smear him based on fantasy.
Why can't people just say "well let's reserve judgment till the facts are out" and if no facts come out then what the hell it's nobody's business but those directly related.
Speculating booze or breaking rules is pointless, derogatory and unhelpful.
Whats the difference between your speculation and "hope he hasn't been fucking kids and raping nuns" ?
There are countless examples of sports people getting tainted by people speculating and making shit up for their personal titilation.
Let's not further publically plumb the depths of fuckwittery.
@Siam said in Ireland II:
@Billy-Tell said in Ireland II:
@Stargazer said in Ireland II:
Pat T is heading home for personal reasons. Don't think he would have played anyway, but hope for him it's not another bereavement.
http://twitter.com/AllBlacks/status/800311226777661441
Edit: old news, I see ...
His form has been very disappointing. I hope "personal reasons" doesn't mean he's be on the booze, or broke team protocol etc.
I'm sorry Billy but I'm going to use your post as an example of what's fucked in the world of media and social media.
This leaping to speculative unfound conclusions in the hope of saying "see told ya" is grossly unfair.
The Hansen no comment strategy is designed to allow the man some privacy, not an invitation to smear him based on fantasy.
Why can't people just say "well let's reserve judgment till the facts are out" and if no facts come out then what the hell it's nobody's business but those directly related.
Speculating booze or breaking rules is pointless, derogatory and unhelpful.
Whats the difference between your speculation and "hope he hasn't been fucking kids and raping nuns" ?
There are countless examples of sports people getting tainted by people speculating and making shit up for their personal titilation.
Let's not further publically plumb the depths of fuckwittery.
Whatever. I hope it wasn't personal conduct issues, but I am not suggesting it were.
At a time when our Irish friends are being precious, I see we can give as good as we get.
And ye olde exageration for effect "fucking kids and raping nuns", give it a break.
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I'm a bit dark about the Irish media and fans response. Should have known better. Having lived in Ireland, they are perennial whingers, bitter and twisted, when they lose. It's like NZ in the 90s when we would lose in a RWC. They simply never just say "we got beat by a better side", there is always the "we woz robbed" element, which they have combined with the "All Blacks are malicious thugs" element. Their list of referees against whom they hold a grudge is 210 pages long, and even comes with an index for handy reference.
I might actually be tempted to support the clown and his criminal element this weekend, at least the Australians offer something on attack
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@Stargazer said in Ireland II:
Pat T is heading home for personal reasons. Don't think he would have played anyway, but hope for him it's not another bereavement.
http://twitter.com/AllBlacks/status/800311226777661441
Edit: old news, I see ...
His form has been very disappointing. I hope "personal reasons" doesn't mean he's be on the booze, or broke team protocol etc.
@Billy-Tell No way Patty would. I've known him since primary school days and would be truly shocked if he ever did something like that. He would be the definition of a humble giant.
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So the ABS with thier 14 inch black and white tv are going to defend Canes head clash, sounds like Malakai might be early guilty, although you could argue his initial contact was on the upper arm/shoulder and slipped up meaning a YC should be sufficient.
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I'm a bit dark about the Irish media and fans response. Should have known better. Having lived in Ireland, they are perennial whingers, bitter and twisted, when they lose. It's like NZ in the 90s when we would lose in a RWC. They simply never just say "we got beat by a better side", there is always the "we woz robbed" element, which they have combined with the "All Blacks are malicious thugs" element. Their list of referees against whom they hold a grudge is 210 pages long, and even comes with an index for handy reference.
I might actually be tempted to support the clown and his criminal element this weekend, at least the Australians offer something on attack
@Billy-Tell said in Ireland II:
I'm a bit dark about the Irish media and fans response. Should have known better. Having lived in Ireland, they are perennial whingers, bitter and twisted, when they lose. It's like NZ in the 90s when we would lose in a RWC. They simply never just say "we got beat by a better side", there is always the "we woz robbed" element, which they have combined with the "All Blacks are malicious thugs" element. Their list of referees against whom they hold a grudge is 210 pages long, and even comes with an index for handy reference.
I might actually be tempted to support the clown and his criminal element this weekend, at least the Australians offer something on attack
To be fair they pile shit on their own just as much. I had a very good mate from Ireland when I lived overseas and he used to scream at Eddie O'Sullivan every time he came on screen. He calmed down quickly though. Hopefully the Cane tackle won't be something we'll be hearing about every single farking time the boys travel north from here on in.
Few things. That Cane tackle looked more like a collision than anything else. Not sure what else he was supposed to have done. Being injured he'll probably get time anyway just to shut up the permanently outraged.
Totally agree that they have to do something more to get their hands on the ball. Argentina were doing something similar in the RWC. Just recycling, recycling, recycling, sometimes from 60-70 metres out. If we get a team that can actually do something constructive with that ball then there could be issues. On the positive side, the abs actually looked pretty bloody good with ball in hand, but never actually had the damn thing. To be honest I'm a little worried about the toll this is taking on the players. I can't see the likes of Whitelock and BBBR being able to play and defend like that every single year. Something has to give eventually.
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@Rapido said in Ireland II:
You've been particularly good this weekend. Not watching the game and therefore not Really commenting on it. That's how we like foreign fans the best.
@Pot-Hale has been good as he hasn't down the rabbit hole with the rest of the Irish media, believing that there is corruption at the top level in sport, that the ABs shouldn't have had two tries awarded, and that the All Blacks deliberately and cynically opponents knowing that the refs won't touch them.
All this hoo hah has taken the gloss off a magnificently physical test match that was a pleasure to watch.
@nzzp said in Ireland II:
@Rapido said in Ireland II:
You've been particularly good this weekend. Not watching the game and therefore not Really commenting on it. That's how we like foreign fans the best.
@Pot-Hale has been good as he hasn't down the rabbit hole with the rest of the Irish media, believing that there is corruption at the top level in sport, that the ABs shouldn't have had two tries awarded, and that the All Blacks deliberately and cynically opponents knowing that the refs won't touch them.
All this hoo hah has taken the gloss off a magnificently physical test match that was a pleasure to watch.
You forgot to mention the one about the TMO being Welsh and not wanting Ireland to look good in front of Gatland. Seriously, I've seen that repeated a few times and not in jest.
And the old 'the ref doesn't respect our captain' one. FFS he showed him too much respect. He should have been doing a threatening reach into the pocket when Best interrupted the conversion. -
So if they want to moan about scrums being ruled incorrectly, where's the footage of the one where they were going backwards at a rate of knots and Heaslip detached, then went digging under the front rows feet for the ball?
@Bones said in Ireland II:
So if they want to moan about scrums being ruled incorrectly, where's the footage of the one where they were going backwards at a rate of knots and Heaslip detached, then went digging under the front rows feet for the ball?
Couple of times the Irish collapsed the front row meaning we couldn't get the shunt on any further and peyper just waved play on.
I have that type of inconsistency, especially when NH teams target the scrums for penalty offences.
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