Ire v Aus
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PS I hope one day that the tackle are gets cleaned up a bit by eliminating crocodile rolls. The whole concept is meant to be attackers and defenders contesting the ball by owning the space over it through forward momentum, not wrestling moves flinging players out the side.
If you remove the crocodile roll as well as policing the head below hips upon entry rule you mentioned, we're going to end up with every side having a Pocock in it and turnovers at every single breakdown. Entire matches would be played back and forth within 10 metres of the half way line!
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@munstergreen said in Ire v Aus:
The other thing I noticed in the game that Kinsella seems to ignore was the other 'tactic' employed of diving head below hips with shoulders targeting Pocockwomble's arms.
Pocock is invariably in a position with his own head below his hips as well though. When he is positioned like that, there is no way of targeting him without doing likewise.
You are entitled after entering the tackle area to bend over, you aren't entitled to enter the tackle area with shoulders below hips.
The art of a good 'jackler' is timing and getting in that position without doing anything clearly illegal.
That whole article just showed how he can be targeted with body rolls. What I recall (although I have no evidence) is players diving with their shoulders aimed at his arms. To me that is borderline dangerous and, if the dive is early, illegal.
I'm not getting at Ireland, just describing something I think I saw that Kinsella didn't put in his analysis.PS I hope one day that the tackle are gets cleaned up a bit by eliminating crocodile rolls. The whole concept is meant to be attackers and defenders contesting the ball by owning the space over it through forward momentum, not wrestling moves flinging players out the side.
Shit we were coached this 15 years ago in premier rugby, how to hit and remove the leech by various means, mostly just battering a shoulder, grab shoulders and roll with pressure on the neck, hitting elbows first underneath the shoulders to break and lift, etc. It's nothing new.
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Just to be clear beofre irish eyes start weeping. In no way was i claiming this was a new and illegal tactic to aim for Pocock's arms (although if you come in like a diving missile you run a risk of getting pinged for it)
I was simply pointing out that in Kinsellas rather long analysis he failed to point this one simple tactic out. -
Just to be clear beofre irish eyes start weeping. In no way was i claiming this was a new and illegal tactic to aim for Pocock's arms (although if you come in like a diving missile you run a risk of getting pinged for it)
I was simply pointing out that in Kinsellas rather long analysis he failed to point this one simple tactic out.Sniff, sob, boo hoo, 'snot fair!
I think Kinsella was having a manlove Pocock moment - he doesn't care what anyone else was doing wrong.
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@Pot-Hale is fascinating how amazing Pocock is perceived yet he breaks laws as much as the next guy...
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@taniwharugby said in Ire v Aus:
@Pot-Hale is fascinating how amazing Pocock is perceived yet he breaks laws as much as the next guy...
As much?
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@taniwharugby said in Ire v Aus:
@Pot-Hale is fascinating how amazing Pocock is perceived yet he breaks laws as much as the next guy...
He's a 7, I think that's part of why he is admired! Same as a certain R.McCaw...
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@barbarian that was my point, media seemed to just love to have a dig at RM, yet Pocock seems loved by media, despite being a 7 and living on the knife edge when he plays...as I said, is just odd how he is preceived like that
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@taniwharugby said in Ire v Aus:
@barbarian that was my point, media seemed to just love to have a dig at RM, yet Pocock seems loved by media, despite being a 7 and living on the knife edge when he plays...as I said, is just odd how he is preceived like that
I don't think it's that good a comparison, actually.
RM copped it more because of how central he was to the team- captain, talisman etc. There was a bit of tall poppy syndrome in there, and he was something of a scapegoat for any and all grievances with the ABs.
Pocock is less central and less successful, so he doesn't cop it nearly as much.
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@barbarian guess thats one way of looking at it, but we have often heard that Pocock is the best player about, which would make him automatically crucial to the Wallabies as well wouldnt it?
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True. He has a certain quality about him that makes him hard to really hate, maybe?
I know a few of the harder blokes on here dislike him for his political views, but I doubt they are widely known in the NH.
And I think the Wallabies lack of success is a big contributor. His cheating is much more harmless, whereas Richie's was taking the ABs to major trophies.
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From my experience, Richie was only really disliked by the English and the Welsh up here.
The English probably because he beat them when they thought they were good, which they always struggle with and the Welsh because they don't really like anyone. I've never seen a player or team win more than 10 matches in a season, and not be deemed cheating scum by the Welsh.
In Ireland he was revered far more than Pocock will ever be. In Munster he's considered a spiritual godfather! I've lived in Scotland and France as well, and he's well respected in both countries. Just because the English (and often our own) media bleat louder than most, doesn't for a second mean their views are indicative of the masses.
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@munstergreen Media aside I haven't seen anything concerted in England about McCaw. We may not revere him but we sure as hell respect him.
Why he gets more grief than Pocock is, I feel, simply down to success as Barbs says below. What's the point about giving grief to a 7 doing his job if you've just beaten his team agains giving him grief after you've just lost to his team for the umpteenth time in a row.
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if I try to imagine how I would perceive Richie if I wasnt a kiwi and supporting a team that is trying to beat us,
I can see how opposition supporters found him irritating , not because he is a prick ,and putting the allegations of cheating aside,
But just the fact that he came across as ice cold , ruthless and singled minded in his pursuit of victory , and more often than not he got what he wanted , that would have to be annoying ........ here he goes again lifting another trophy , bastard
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@kiwiinmelb said in Ire v Aus:
if I try to imagine how I would perceive Richie if I wasnt a kiwi and supporting a team that is trying to beat us,
...
But just the fact that he came across as ice cold , ruthless and singled minded in his pursuit of victory , and more often than not he got what he wanted , that would have to be annoying ........ here he goes again lifting another trophy , bastardWell, TBH that isn't really it - and it sounds a bit like you can't get past the admiration bit
It was individual incidents for me. Not getting a yellow card in situations pretty much anyone else would. Or even a penalty. Its not cheating, its just that, while he was better than most of his peers most of the time, there were times during his career where the refs just seemed to utterly bottle it.
Most memorable was a Bledisloe Test in ?Brisbane? where he made a tackle and (as is his wont) landed on our side. Gregan eventually gets clear ball and is about to pick it up, when McCaw deliberately puts his leg on it. He's offside, off his feet, out of the game, and he interferes with the ball. That is a yellow card every day of the week, anywhere on the field.
Kaplan just looks at him sternly and blows the whistle. Not even a warning.
Now, that isn't all McCaw's fault of course - Kaplan is the one who was known for handing out Last Warnings multiple times - but it just demonstrates why that "cheat" tag got applied. Nobody seemed to want to punish him.
But there is pushing the ref's patience, and then there is taking a dump in the ref's mouth while the opposition are forced to look on, Clockwork-Orange-style
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Also, he seems exceptionally boring. Like he should be in a glass case with "Break In Case Of Rugby or Gliders".
Guess you need to take steps to protect your personal life away from sport, like Gregan did. But I'm told he's just actually that quiet.
I'd definitely warm to him more if he looked like he had a bit more fun on a Saturday night than a warm cup of cocoa and a flick through the latest Bell Helicopter spec sheet
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@kiwiinmelb said in Ire v Aus:
if I try to imagine how I would perceive Richie if I wasnt a kiwi and supporting a team that is trying to beat us,
...
But just the fact that he came across as ice cold , ruthless and singled minded in his pursuit of victory , and more often than not he got what he wanted , that would have to be annoying ........ here he goes again lifting another trophy , bastardWell, TBH that isn't really it - and it sounds a bit like you can't get past the admiration bit
It was individual incidents for me. Not getting a yellow card in situations pretty much anyone else would. Or even a penalty. Its not cheating, its just that, while he was better than most of his peers most of the time, there were times during his career where the refs just seemed to utterly bottle it.
Most memorable was a Bledisloe Test in ?Brisbane? where he made a tackle and (as is his wont) landed on our side. Gregan eventually gets clear ball and is about to pick it up, when McCaw deliberately puts his leg on it. He's offside, off his feet, out of the game, and he interferes with the ball. That is a yellow card every day of the week, anywhere on the field.
Kaplan just looks at him sternly and blows the whistle. Not even a warning.
Now, that isn't all McCaw's fault of course - Kaplan is the one who was known for handing out Last Warnings multiple times - but it just demonstrates why that "cheat" tag got applied. Nobody seemed to want to punish him.
But there is pushing the ref's patience, and then there is taking a dump in the ref's mouth while the opposition are forced to look on, Clockwork-Orange-style
Ok Fair enough , but I suspect that is more the Aussie Version of things
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@kiwiinmelb said in Ire v Aus:
if I try to imagine how I would perceive Richie if I wasnt a kiwi and supporting a team that is trying to beat us,
I can see how opposition supporters found him irritating , not because he is a prick ,and putting the allegations of cheating aside,
But just the fact that he came across as ice cold , ruthless and singled minded in his pursuit of victory , and more often than not he got what he wanted , that would have to be annoying ........ here he goes again lifting another trophy , bastard
I reckon that's a large part of it. He was successful and didn't make a huge deal about how he also patted puppies and kittens.
