Exodus 2017
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@Siam said in Exodus 2017:
I would have thought Lima might be a hot target.
Disgruntled or determined?
Not at all. Wait for Cruden to sign for Montpellier, and heh presto he is the AB bench 1st-five. He is still young and his later earning potential would be massively enhanced by more than a handful of mostly token AB caps. If Cruden doesn't sign, then put out another big season for the Highlanders, put pressure on Cruden, and there may be injuries too.
I'm finding it weird that everyone feels Fekitoa is flaky and won't be surprised if he signs off-shore, while an ageing Cruden, who is no longer the AB starting 10, and has been offered massive money from Montpellier is likely to be loyal and stay.
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@Billy-Tell Just a pity that we lose another reasonably good prop, although losing a TH would have been worse.
@Stargazer said in Exodus 2017:
@Billy-Tell Just a pity that we lose another reasonably good prop, although losing a TH would have been worse.
I tend to agree with Wayne Smith that slowly but surely the rugby base is moving north. He will earn much more as a squad prop for Clermont than as a squad prop for the canes.
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@pukunui said in Exodus 2017:
Would coaching the Boks jeopardise any future AB coaching chances? Like happened with Deans cosching the Wobs? Or was it more about Deans burning bridges?
I think it was far less to do with going to the Wallabies, more HOW he went to the Wallabies. Lot of annecdotal feeling in NZ rugby (well, at the time) that he used his very half arsed application for the AB job to leverage up his bargaining position in Australia. Most (all) other NZ coaches heading off shore have bent over backwards to clear it with the NZRFU.
2 sides I guess, others feel he was being screwed around getting told to apply for an AB job that he was never getting no matter how the application went...
@gollum said in Exodus 2017:
@pukunui said in Exodus 2017:
Would coaching the Boks jeopardise any future AB coaching chances? Like happened with Deans cosching the Wobs? Or was it more about Deans burning bridges?
I think it was far less to do with going to the Wallabies, more HOW he went to the Wallabies. Lot of annecdotal feeling in NZ rugby (well, at the time) that he used his very half arsed application for the AB job to leverage up his bargaining position in Australia. Most (all) other NZ coaches heading off shore have bent over backwards to clear it with the NZRFU.
2 sides I guess, others feel he was being screwed around getting told to apply for an AB job that he was never getting no matter how the application went...
I reckon when they went to Richie for his opinion on Deans when he was going head to head with Henry, and it wasn't as glowing as everyone probably expected , that didn't help his cause either .
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@Stargazer said in Exodus 2017:
@Billy-Tell Just a pity that we lose another reasonably good prop, although losing a TH would have been worse.
I tend to agree with Wayne Smith that slowly but surely the rugby base is moving north. He will earn much more as a squad prop for Clermont than as a squad prop for the canes.
@Billy-Tell said in Exodus 2017:
@Stargazer said in Exodus 2017:
@Billy-Tell Just a pity that we lose another reasonably good prop, although losing a TH would have been worse.
I tend to agree with Wayne Smith that slowly but surely the rugby base is moving north. He will earn much more as a squad prop for Clermont than as a squad prop for the canes.
In that light:
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Would coaching the Boks jeopardise any future AB coaching chances? Like happened with Deans cosching the Wobs? Or was it more about Deans burning bridges?
@pukunui said in Exodus 2017:
Would coaching the Boks jeopardise any future AB coaching chances? Like happened with Deans cosching the Wobs? Or was it more about Deans burning bridges?
It's never really been put to the test that Deans coaching the Wallabies led to him being blackballed from ever coaching the ABs.
The way the cards have fallen no-one has had a real chance to contest the job since 2007.
In the meantime, the world has gone on - it's nearly ten years later - Robbie claims he's got no interest in coaching internationally or Super rugby and he'd no longer be at the front of the queue if the job suddenly became vacant.
@gollum - Henry himself left for Wales in at least as rancorous circumstances - the famous "I'm going to coach Wales and I'm going tonight". The NZRU was also pissed at Hansen being signed by Wales as Henry's replacement - they lodged a formal complaint against Wales with the IRB.
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@Stargazer said in Exodus 2017:
Hurricane Loni Uhila has signed a one-year (+ 2 years optional) contract with Clermont!
http://www.asm-rugby.com/actus/le-pilier-des-hurricanes-loni-uhila-à-clermont
Fair enough. I hope he declares for Tonga, and not France in 3 years time...
@Billy-Tell Funnily enough Tonga are strong in that area so he may have a bit of work to do to get in.
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From planet rugby:
Worcester Warriors have completed the signing of versatile Samoa international forward Chris Vui until the end of the season.
The 23-year-old, who can play in the second-row or back-row, joins up with his new Sixways team-mates immediately, the club confirmed.
Vui has had a whirlwind few months, having captained New Zealand side North Harbour to the Mitre 10 Championship title in October, before earning his first cap for Samoa against France last month.
Vui also enjoyed a stint at the Blues featuring in the 2015 Super Rugby campaign, while he represented New Zealand U20s in the 2013 World Rugby Championship.
“Chris is a big, powerful and adaptable forward who will certainly add some strength to our pack,” said head coach Carl Hogg.
“At just 23, he is an experienced leader having led North Harbour to the top flight and we are excited to see what he has to offer.”
Vui added: “Worcester have a great vision in place and the facilities and resources available at the club are outstanding.
“I’m excited about the prospect of playing Premiership Rugby and hopefully I can boost the squad and help push us up the table.”
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From planet rugby:
Worcester Warriors have completed the signing of versatile Samoa international forward Chris Vui until the end of the season.
The 23-year-old, who can play in the second-row or back-row, joins up with his new Sixways team-mates immediately, the club confirmed.
Vui has had a whirlwind few months, having captained New Zealand side North Harbour to the Mitre 10 Championship title in October, before earning his first cap for Samoa against France last month.
Vui also enjoyed a stint at the Blues featuring in the 2015 Super Rugby campaign, while he represented New Zealand U20s in the 2013 World Rugby Championship.
“Chris is a big, powerful and adaptable forward who will certainly add some strength to our pack,” said head coach Carl Hogg.
“At just 23, he is an experienced leader having led North Harbour to the top flight and we are excited to see what he has to offer.”
Vui added: “Worcester have a great vision in place and the facilities and resources available at the club are outstanding.
“I’m excited about the prospect of playing Premiership Rugby and hopefully I can boost the squad and help push us up the table.”
@Daffy-Jaffy A lot of players who missed out on a SR contract are signing short-term contracts overseas this year. I hope that means that they'll return to Mitre10 Cup to give it another shot and that they aren't lost to NZ rugby just yet.
It also says a lot about the lack of player depth in Europe that they can't even find good, local players for short-term cover of injuries etc.
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Players off contract in 2017:
Kieran Read, Sam Whitelock, Owen Franks, Cory Jane, Israel Dagg, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith, Charlie Faumuina, Sam Cane, Steven Luatua, Malakai Fekitoa, Hikawera Elliot, Nepo Laulala, Codie Taylor, James Broadhurst, Tawera Kerr Barlow, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Waisake Naholo, Brad Weber, Charlie Ngatai and Ryan Crotty
Who do we really not want to lose, thinking ahead to 2019...?
@Billy-Tell said in Exodus 2017:
Players off contract in 2017:
Kieran Read, Sam Whitelock, Owen Franks, Cory Jane, Israel Dagg, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith, Charlie Faumuina, Sam Cane, Steven Luatua, Malakai Fekitoa, Hikawera Elliot, Nepo Laulala, Codie Taylor, James Broadhurst, Tawera Kerr Barlow, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Waisake Naholo, Brad Weber, Charlie Ngatai and Ryan Crotty
Current ABs in bold (Laulala, NMS & Ngatai would have been there but for injury IMHO, possibly Broadhurst).
All the talk is currently about Dagg, Smith & Cruden, but there are a lot of other names there that I haven't seen re-sign yet.
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@Billy-Tell said in Exodus 2017:
Players off contract in 2017:
Kieran Read, Sam Whitelock, Owen Franks, Cory Jane, Israel Dagg, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith, Charlie Faumuina, Sam Cane, Steven Luatua, Malakai Fekitoa, Hikawera Elliot, Nepo Laulala, Codie Taylor, James Broadhurst, Tawera Kerr Barlow, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Waisake Naholo, Brad Weber, Charlie Ngatai and Ryan Crotty
Current ABs in bold (Laulala, NMS & Ngatai would have been there but for injury IMHO, possibly Broadhurst).
All the talk is currently about Dagg, Smith & Cruden, but there are a lot of other names there that I haven't seen re-sign yet.
@Billy-Tell Yes, to add a few others: TJP, Squire, Tamanivalu & Hames, as well as the likes of James Lowe, Matt Proctor, Ash Dixon, Tom Franklin & Parsons.
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@Billy-Tell said in Exodus 2017:
@Stargazer said in Exodus 2017:
@Billy-Tell Just a pity that we lose another reasonably good prop, although losing a TH would have been worse.
I tend to agree with Wayne Smith that slowly but surely the rugby base is moving north. He will earn much more as a squad prop for Clermont than as a squad prop for the canes.
In that light:
@Stargazer said in Exodus 2017:
@Billy-Tell said in Exodus 2017:
@Stargazer said in Exodus 2017:
@Billy-Tell Just a pity that we lose another reasonably good prop, although losing a TH would have been worse.
I tend to agree with Wayne Smith that slowly but surely the rugby base is moving north. He will earn much more as a squad prop for Clermont than as a squad prop for the canes.
In that light:
That's quite damning and a huge problem for France internationally unless they get a handle on it.
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@Stargazer said in Exodus 2017:
@Billy-Tell said in Exodus 2017:
@Stargazer said in Exodus 2017:
@Billy-Tell Just a pity that we lose another reasonably good prop, although losing a TH would have been worse.
I tend to agree with Wayne Smith that slowly but surely the rugby base is moving north. He will earn much more as a squad prop for Clermont than as a squad prop for the canes.
In that light:
That's quite damning and a huge problem for France internationally unless they get a handle on it.
@Catogrande said in Exodus 2017:
That's quite damning and a huge problem for France internationally unless they get a handle on it.
I'll say! France used to be the home of scrummaging yet somehow Jamie Mackintosh is the best they have playing?
Even his own team mates in Southland describe him as overrated. -
@Catogrande said in Exodus 2017:
That's quite damning and a huge problem for France internationally unless they get a handle on it.
I'll say! France used to be the home of scrummaging yet somehow Jamie Mackintosh is the best they have playing?
Even his own team mates in Southland describe him as overrated. -
@Crucial Another point there is that they've used 8 different teams so it's not even a case of picking guys that have been part of an awesome team effort.
@Catogrande said in Exodus 2017:
@Crucial Another point there is that they've used 8 different teams so it's not even a case of picking guys that have been part of an awesome team effort.
Is their an element of 'encouragement' awards in this? Like kids sports?
Is the media simply trying to keep as many readers as possible happy by seeing their own team mentioned? -
@Catogrande said in Exodus 2017:
@Crucial Another point there is that they've used 8 different teams so it's not even a case of picking guys that have been part of an awesome team effort.
Is their an element of 'encouragement' awards in this? Like kids sports?
Is the media simply trying to keep as many readers as possible happy by seeing their own team mentioned?@Crucial Everybody wins! Go to the Rainbow Room to collect your coloured badge!
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Dagg, Cruden, Smith.
You can keep one, who do you choose?
In 2019, the players will be aged
Dagg 31
Cruden 30
Smith 33Do NZ often field outside backs aged over 30?
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Dagg, Cruden, Smith.
You can keep one, who do you choose?
In 2019, the players will be aged
Dagg 31
Cruden 30
Smith 33Do NZ often field outside backs aged over 30?
@Billy-Tell I think Cruden is at most risk, IMO Dagg will want another 'highlight' (Lions) to add to his career and given his resurgence, is a very good shot to start v the Lions, if he stays, Smith wil start v the Lions, whereas Cruden has BB to contend with, and Sopoaga who must be so close to getting more minutes.
Hansen said he is ok to lose one of the 3, and I suspect he has his preference over who he'd like to keep.
I guess the fact these guys spoke to whatever NH teams a few weeks back, and they have not yet signed, means there is hope that NZR will retain their services, especially with the new agreement signed.
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They are all already signed through past the lions that has no role to play. It's for 2018/2019.
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They are all already signed through past the lions that has no role to play. It's for 2018/2019.
@Billy-Tell ah ok, then I don't think it is a big deal, we could lose 2/3 and not really feel it IMO...even though I don't like losing any players as what these guys can give back at M10 cup level is the biggest thing we lose.
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@Billy-Tell ah ok, then I don't think it is a big deal, we could lose 2/3 and not really feel it IMO...even though I don't like losing any players as what these guys can give back at M10 cup level is the biggest thing we lose.
@taniwharugby said in Exodus 2017:
@Billy-Tell ah ok, then I don't think it is a big deal, we could lose 2/3 and not really feel it IMO...even though I don't like losing any players as what these guys can give back at M10 cup level is the biggest thing we lose.
I don't like it either. But realistically if our 2019 RWC back 3 includes 33 year old smith and 31 year old Dagg we will probably be in trouble.
I will be surprised if Cruden stays: the NZRU can't, won't and shouldn't try and match €800,000 per season. If you offer it to one bench player you'll end up having to offer it to many more.
