Exodus 2017
-
Thing is, Donald performed adequately (at the very least) in most of his tests, it was just the occasional mong moment that really tarnished him.
-
@Nepia said in Exodus 2017:
The gap between Carter and the rest in 2009-11 (after Evans left) was actually huge so made picking a replacement a lot harder. They did freak out a bit, and blow their own plan in 2010 by not taking away Cruden and Slade. In the end they needed all of them anyway - so maybe it didn't matter. (I see we're perpetuating the Slade saves our bacon myth instead of the Kaino saves out bacon truth
).But hey, sometimes a coach gets lucky and the timing is right, Hansen did ok, DC left and Barrett turns in career best performances that many if they're honest didn't think he had in him, and before that he had Cruden to come in when DC was injured at a time when Cruden was on fire.
@MajorRage Yep, the McAlister selection against France was the worse thing possible for both NZ and him. We blew a test, and he lost most of his reputation (his return is looked back as completely negative now when he actually had a couple of decent tests.)
Did he? From memory, I thought he looked good against weak opposition but the minute he faced a decent defence, all he did was ineffectively run sideways. He was no better than Donald (arguably worse).
In hindsight, dropping Cruden was the biggest mistake because Slade didn't exactly turn out to be a memorable AB 10 anyway. From memory, 2011 was the HammerCanes year, which was a complete mess and one of the main reasons why Cruden missed out on the AB squad at first. The next year he was at the Chiefs, had a brilliant Super season and easily made the ABs, so they should've given him a chance to settle in.
But having said all that, who gives a shit about drudging this crap up yet again? Maybe you've forgotten but we won the 2011 RWC, in part because we had four AB 10s. Things worked out like a cliche sports movie, with Donald getting a ton of undeserved shit from all corners but coming back and turning himself into a hero. If I could go back and change it, I wouldn't change a thing (well, maybe drop Guildford...).
@Unco said in Exodus 2017:
@Nepia said in Exodus 2017:
The gap between Carter and the rest in 2009-11 (after Evans left) was actually huge so made picking a replacement a lot harder. They did freak out a bit, and blow their own plan in 2010 by not taking away Cruden and Slade. In the end they needed all of them anyway - so maybe it didn't matter. (I see we're perpetuating the Slade saves our bacon myth instead of the Kaino saves out bacon truth
).But hey, sometimes a coach gets lucky and the timing is right, Hansen did ok, DC left and Barrett turns in career best performances that many if they're honest didn't think he had in him, and before that he had Cruden to come in when DC was injured at a time when Cruden was on fire.
@MajorRage Yep, the McAlister selection against France was the worse thing possible for both NZ and him. We blew a test, and he lost most of his reputation (his return is looked back as completely negative now when he actually had a couple of decent tests.)
Did he? From memory, I thought he looked good against weak opposition but the minute he faced a decent defence, all he did was ineffectively run sideways. He was no better than Donald (arguably worse).
In hindsight, dropping Cruden was the biggest mistake because Slade didn't exactly turn out to be a memorable AB 10 anyway. From memory, 2011 was the HammerCanes year, which was a complete mess and one of the main reasons why Cruden missed out on the AB squad at first. The next year he was at the Chiefs, had a brilliant Super season and easily made the ABs, so they should've given him a chance to settle in.
But having said all that, who gives a shit about drudging this crap up yet again? Maybe you've forgotten but we won the 2011 RWC, in part because we had four AB 10s. Things worked out like a cliche sports movie, with Donald getting a ton of undeserved shit from all corners but coming back and turning himself into a hero. If I could go back and change it, I wouldn't change a thing (well, maybe drop Guildford...).
He had a good game against the Wallabies at Homebush - DC gets all the credit (and deserves his credit) for the match but McAlister played a crucial role in getting us over the gain line in that tight match. But he was never the same player after he went overseas.
Clearly we do by responding even though we didn't bring it up!
-
The gap between Carter and the rest in 2009-11 (after Evans left) was actually huge so made picking a replacement a lot harder. They did freak out a bit, and blow their own plan in 2010 by not taking away Cruden and Slade. In the end they needed all of them anyway - so maybe it didn't matter. (I see we're perpetuating the Slade saves our bacon myth instead of the Kaino saves out bacon truth
).But hey, sometimes a coach gets lucky and the timing is right, Hansen did ok, DC left and Barrett turns in career best performances that many if they're honest didn't think he had in him, and before that he had Cruden to come in when DC was injured at a time when Cruden was on fire.
@MajorRage Yep, the McAlister selection against France was the worse thing possible for both NZ and him. We blew a test, and he lost most of his reputation (his return is looked back as completely negative now when he actually had a couple of decent tests.)
@Nepia said in Exodus 2017:
The gap between Carter and the rest in 2009-11 (after Evans left) was actually huge so made picking a replacement a lot harder. They did freak out a bit, and blow their own plan in 2010 by not taking away Cruden and Slade. In the end they needed all of them anyway - so maybe it didn't matter. But hey, sometimes a coach gets lucky and the timing is right,
I think the thing that somewhat damns the cartel in this instance is that they ended up with Slade as their number 2 first five at the 2011 RWC - and at that point he had about 120 minutes of test experience in the position - with about half of it against Fiji.
All the eggs were really in the Danny Boy basket - and when that upended, we really needed to get lucky.
In some ways, the scene was perfectly set for Donald. He'd already copped a lambasting for Hong Kong, so whatever he got from the RWC, if we lost, wouldn't be much worse . Aside from which, everyone knew he wasn't supposed to be there anyway - and Piri had already guaranteed the hotseat for himself by missing all those kicks in the first half. So probably a bit less pressure than if he'd been in the squad in the first place.
In hindsight, Henry's reign probably wasn't quite as seamless as Hansen's. I'm still a bit stunned that they apparently didn't tell Henry that Piri was injured.
-
@Nepia said in Exodus 2017:
The gap between Carter and the rest in 2009-11 (after Evans left) was actually huge so made picking a replacement a lot harder. They did freak out a bit, and blow their own plan in 2010 by not taking away Cruden and Slade. In the end they needed all of them anyway - so maybe it didn't matter. But hey, sometimes a coach gets lucky and the timing is right,
I think the thing that somewhat damns the cartel in this instance is that they ended up with Slade as their number 2 first five at the 2011 RWC - and at that point he had about 120 minutes of test experience in the position - with about half of it against Fiji.
All the eggs were really in the Danny Boy basket - and when that upended, we really needed to get lucky.
In some ways, the scene was perfectly set for Donald. He'd already copped a lambasting for Hong Kong, so whatever he got from the RWC, if we lost, wouldn't be much worse . Aside from which, everyone knew he wasn't supposed to be there anyway - and Piri had already guaranteed the hotseat for himself by missing all those kicks in the first half. So probably a bit less pressure than if he'd been in the squad in the first place.
In hindsight, Henry's reign probably wasn't quite as seamless as Hansen's. I'm still a bit stunned that they apparently didn't tell Henry that Piri was injured.
@Chris-B. I think it's easier to be seamless at 10 when you have the 2012 onwards version of Cruden and the 2016 version of Barrett (and the less deer in the headlights later version of Slade).
I didn't know they didn't tell Henry that Piri got injured in the warm up - who was they? The players?
-
@Chris-B. I think it's easier to be seamless at 10 when you have the 2012 onwards version of Cruden and the 2016 version of Barrett (and the less deer in the headlights later version of Slade).
I didn't know they didn't tell Henry that Piri got injured in the warm up - who was they? The players?
@Nepia Wayne Smith and Deb Robinson, I think.
Apparently Piri got injured running his own extended goal-kicking session the day before.
In Henry's book (which I just looked at) Graham noticed Piri looked to be favouring his leg in the wrm-ups and said "What's wrong with Piri?" Smith said he didn't know and would find out - and did so - asked Deb Robinson. Found out that Piri had a less severe case of DC's aductor tear - but, Piri was confident it would be OK when it warmed up. So Robinson already knew and hadn't told the coaches.
I can't recall the source of where I saw or read that they still decided not to tell Graham about this because they didn't want to worry him - at a glance I couldn't see it in Graham's book, but it might have been in the Weight of the Nation or some subsequent interview.
Someone will know.
-
Maybe clutching at straws but maybe the bun in the oven chez les Dagg will keep Israel in NZ...
-
Maybe clutching at straws but maybe the bun in the oven chez les Dagg will keep Israel in NZ...
@Billy-Tell said in Exodus 2017:
Maybe clutching at straws but maybe the bun in the oven chez les Dagg will keep Israel in NZ...
Yep. I thought the same. Nicer to have the family support for your first one.
-
@Billy-Tell said in Exodus 2017:
Maybe clutching at straws but maybe the bun in the oven chez les Dagg will keep Israel in NZ...
Yep. I thought the same. Nicer to have the family support for your first one.
-
Charlie Faumuina to Stade Toulousain is now official
-
Charlie Faumuina to Stade Toulousain is now official
@jauzy019 said in Exodus 2017:
Charlie Faumuina to Stade Toulousain is now official
Damn. Bloody Jauzy ...
-
According to the All Blacks website, he'll move to France after the 2017 Super Rugby season. I assume that means that he'll not be available for the Lions tour. That will give Hansen and co some selection head aches, unless Nepo Laulala is fully fit again.
I see no indication of the length of his contract either. The media releases only say that he'll play for Toulouse during the 2017-2018 season, but nothing about following years. A contract for 2 years and one optional year is very common in France.
http://www.allblacks.com/News/30245/charlie-faumuina-confirms-french-move
Edit: old article from June suggests that Faumuina has signed a three year deal with Toulouse ...
-
This is a very big loss since he was young enough to go to the 2019 RWC. With Afeaki lost to rugby, the stock of THP of international standard is now very thin in NZ. Nepo Laulala is his probable successor. He is a good scrummager but will he bring the necessary impact off the bench like Faumuina did ?
Franks being the likely starter for the All Blacks, maybe the selectors could look for a more dynamic prop (Atu Moli, JTA, Ofa T) to warm the bench ? -
This is a very big loss since he was young enough to go to the 2019 RWC. With Afeaki lost to rugby, the stock of THP of international standard is now very thin in NZ. Nepo Laulala is his probable successor. He is a good scrummager but will he bring the necessary impact off the bench like Faumuina did ?
Franks being the likely starter for the All Blacks, maybe the selectors could look for a more dynamic prop (Atu Moli, JTA, Ofa T) to warm the bench ? -
According to the All Blacks website, he'll move to France after the 2017 Super Rugby season. I assume that means that he'll not be available for the Lions tour. That will give Hansen and co some selection head aches, unless Nepo Laulala is fully fit again.
I see no indication of the length of his contract either. The media releases only say that he'll play for Toulouse during the 2017-2018 season, but nothing about following years. A contract for 2 years and one optional year is very common in France.
http://www.allblacks.com/News/30245/charlie-faumuina-confirms-french-move
Edit: old article from June suggests that Faumuina has signed a three year deal with Toulouse ...
@Stargazer said in Exodus 2017:
According to the All Blacks website, he'll move to France after the 2017 Super Rugby season. I assume that means that he'll not be available for the Lions tour.
The Lions tour is during the Super Rugby season. He will be available, whether the selection panel blackball him is another thing.
-
@Stargazer said in Exodus 2017:
According to the All Blacks website, he'll move to France after the 2017 Super Rugby season. I assume that means that he'll not be available for the Lions tour.
The Lions tour is during the Super Rugby season. He will be available, whether the selection panel blackball him is another thing.
@rotated said in Exodus 2017:
@Stargazer said in Exodus 2017:
According to the All Blacks website, he'll move to France after the 2017 Super Rugby season. I assume that means that he'll not be available for the Lions tour.
The Lions tour is during the Super Rugby season. He will be available, whether the selection panel blackball him is another thing.
I doubt that'd do that. He is the clear number 2.
I'm hopeful that Laulala will step up but so far the only notable thing he's done in a Black jersey is miss a tackle on Nic White when he scored the match winning try a couple of seasons ago.
-
@Stargazer said in Exodus 2017:
According to the All Blacks website, he'll move to France after the 2017 Super Rugby season. I assume that means that he'll not be available for the Lions tour.
The Lions tour is during the Super Rugby season. He will be available, whether the selection panel blackball him is another thing.
@rotated said in Exodus 2017:
@Stargazer said in Exodus 2017:
According to the All Blacks website, he'll move to France after the 2017 Super Rugby season. I assume that means that he'll not be available for the Lions tour.
The Lions tour is during the Super Rugby season. He will be available, whether the selection panel blackball him is another thing.
Not a chance! The days of cutting of our nose to spite out face in order to "punish" a player are long gone.
-
@rotated said in Exodus 2017:
@Stargazer said in Exodus 2017:
According to the All Blacks website, he'll move to France after the 2017 Super Rugby season. I assume that means that he'll not be available for the Lions tour.
The Lions tour is during the Super Rugby season. He will be available, whether the selection panel blackball him is another thing.
Not a chance! The days of cutting of our nose to spite out face in order to "punish" a player are long gone.
@Billy-Tell said in Exodus 2017:
@rotated said in Exodus 2017:
@Stargazer said in Exodus 2017:
According to the All Blacks website, he'll move to France after the 2017 Super Rugby season. I assume that means that he'll not be available for the Lions tour.
The Lions tour is during the Super Rugby season. He will be available, whether the selection panel blackball him is another thing.
Not a chance! The days of cutting of our nose to spite out face in order to "punish" a player are long gone.
In 2012/3 Hansen outright said two players would have been new caps for a June squad if they hadn't signed off shore at the end of the season. I'm pretty sure we figured one was Bateman and can't remember the other.
He won't drop someone because they are heading overseas - but I'm sure the tie will go to someone staying. I expect Faumauina to be in the squad unless a young prop lights it up in the first rounds of Super Rugby and I don't see that happening.
Did we ever cut our nose to spite our face with this stuff? I can't remember anyone being unceremoniously dumped.
-
@Billy-Tell said in Exodus 2017:
@rotated said in Exodus 2017:
@Stargazer said in Exodus 2017:
According to the All Blacks website, he'll move to France after the 2017 Super Rugby season. I assume that means that he'll not be available for the Lions tour.
The Lions tour is during the Super Rugby season. He will be available, whether the selection panel blackball him is another thing.
Not a chance! The days of cutting of our nose to spite out face in order to "punish" a player are long gone.
In 2012/3 Hansen outright said two players would have been new caps for a June squad if they hadn't signed off shore at the end of the season. I'm pretty sure we figured one was Bateman and can't remember the other.
He won't drop someone because they are heading overseas - but I'm sure the tie will go to someone staying. I expect Faumauina to be in the squad unless a young prop lights it up in the first rounds of Super Rugby and I don't see that happening.
Did we ever cut our nose to spite our face with this stuff? I can't remember anyone being unceremoniously dumped.
@rotated was a lock, Patterson IIRC
-
@Billy-Tell said in Exodus 2017:
@rotated said in Exodus 2017:
@Stargazer said in Exodus 2017:
According to the All Blacks website, he'll move to France after the 2017 Super Rugby season. I assume that means that he'll not be available for the Lions tour.
The Lions tour is during the Super Rugby season. He will be available, whether the selection panel blackball him is another thing.
Not a chance! The days of cutting of our nose to spite out face in order to "punish" a player are long gone.
In 2012/3 Hansen outright said two players would have been new caps for a June squad if they hadn't signed off shore at the end of the season. I'm pretty sure we figured one was Bateman and can't remember the other.
He won't drop someone because they are heading overseas - but I'm sure the tie will go to someone staying. I expect Faumauina to be in the squad unless a young prop lights it up in the first rounds of Super Rugby and I don't see that happening.
Did we ever cut our nose to spite our face with this stuff? I can't remember anyone being unceremoniously dumped.
@rotated said in Exodus 2017:
Did we ever cut our nose to spite our face with this stuff? I can't remember anyone being unceremoniously dumped.
Charlie Piutau? Was seriously on the outer and not allowed to play a part season of Super.
yes, I can carry grudges for years.
-
Charlie Faumuina to Stade Toulousain is now official
@jauzy019 said in Exodus 2017:
Charlie Faumuina to Stade Toulousain is now official
Great, our only ball-carrying prop leaves. Massive loss and arguably a bigger loss than losing Dagg or Cruden.
