European Club Rugby
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@Bones ok, to step back for a second.
What do you think Pisi was trying to do? And why was it worthy of a red card?
Do you think at any point he was trying to get the ball? Or do you think, he just ran into him for the hell of it without any due care for the rules or the player? You seem to be suggesting the latter, which is why this has reverted to name calling.
@MajorRage
Not Bones obv, but for me he was chasing the ball, twigged he lost & did a little skip jump to make it look OK & aimed to have a collision with the player (with Pisi taking it on the shoulder & back) to stop the catcher going 20m up field after catching it.
IE he thought he had done just enough to not get pinged & stop the catcher going on a run. And that was his intention from the second he lost the race to the ball.
Same way lazy runners are not really trying to get out of the way, or players locking a ball into a ruck will take a penalty rather than roll away & give quick (try scoring) ball at times.
It was worthy of a red because it was at best careless & at worst cynical and it put another player at risk of serious injury. If you want you can throw in once the collision happened he covered his head & did zero to mitigate the players landing
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@mooshld said in NH club rugby:
@Pot-Hale Thats how it works wow that's weird I would have thought he would have gotten some sort of salary bump for getting selected for Ireland and it wasn"t all just match fees.
Does he have a contract now with the IRU, I didn't think he could until he was Irish qualified.
Correct, he's not Irish qualified and can't be on a central contract. His current contract is due to finish in June, but he wouldn't be Irish qualified until November so his playing contract is through Connacht Rugby. There are only about 15 central contracts (whereby IRFU negotiates directly and pays the player's salary and manages their playing time). These players are seen as pretty much first choice selection for the test squad. As the depth grows, the need for central contract players reduces. It was over 20 players at one stage, and then was cut drastically to 11 or 12 about 6-7 years ago as costs mushroomed. I think this is the current panel which is likely to change again before year is out:
June 2017
Jamie Heaslip (Leinster - 2017)
Donnacha Ryan (Munster - 2017)
Devin Toner (Leinster - 2017)
Andrew Trimble (Ulster - 2017)June 2018
Rob Kearney (Leinster - 2018)
Tommy Bowe (Ulster - 2018)
Rory Best (Ulster - 2018)
Peter O'Mahony (Munster - 2018)
Jared Payne (Ulster - 2018)Post-World Cup 2019
Sean O'Brien (Leinster - 2019)
Keith Earls (Munster - 2019)
Robbie Henshaw (Leinster - 2019)
Johnny Sexton (Leinster - 2019)
Cian Healy (Leinster - 2019)
Conor Murray (Munster - 2019)
Jack McGrath (Leinster - 2019)To quote an Irish rugby agent:
"If you are a nationally contracted player, playing in the national team, you are not available for a lot of games. So [it comes down to] what value your province puts on you to what value the national team puts on you.
"If the national team don't want to contract you, then the province has a value they can pay to. 'Well you are worth this (much) to us because you'll play 18 games for us as opposed to 26 (in total)'."
A central contract player may only play in 8 league games, 6-9 European games, 5 Six Nations, 3 June tests and 3 November tests - up to 26 in total.
@Pot-Hale said in NH club rugby:
@mooshld said in NH club rugby:
@Pot-Hale Thats how it works wow that's weird I would have thought he would have gotten some sort of salary bump for getting selected for Ireland and it wasn"t all just match fees.
Does he have a contract now with the IRU, I didn't think he could until he was Irish qualified.
Correct, he's not Irish qualified and can't be on a central contract. His current contract is due to finish in June, but he wouldn't be Irish qualified until November so his playing contract is through Connacht Rugby. There are only about 15 central contracts (whereby IRFU negotiates directly and pays the player's salary and manages their playing time). These players are seen as pretty much first choice selection for the test squad. As the depth grows, the need for central contract players reduces. It was over 20 players at one stage, and then was cut drastically to 11 or 12 about 6-7 years ago as costs mushroomed. I think this is the current panel which is likely to change again before year is out:
June 2017
Jamie Heaslip (Leinster - 2017)
Donnacha Ryan (Munster - 2017)
Devin Toner (Leinster - 2017)
Andrew Trimble (Ulster - 2017)June 2018
Rob Kearney (Leinster - 2018)
Tommy Bowe (Ulster - 2018)
Rory Best (Ulster - 2018)
Peter O'Mahony (Munster - 2018)
Jared Payne (Ulster - 2018)Post-World Cup 2019
Sean O'Brien (Leinster - 2019)
Keith Earls (Munster - 2019)
Robbie Henshaw (Leinster - 2019)
Johnny Sexton (Leinster - 2019)
Cian Healy (Leinster - 2019)
Conor Murray (Munster - 2019)
Jack McGrath (Leinster - 2019)To quote an Irish rugby agent:
"If you are a nationally contracted player, playing in the national team, you are not available for a lot of games. So [it comes down to] what value your province puts on you to what value the national team puts on you.
"If the national team don't want to contract you, then the province has a value they can pay to. 'Well you are worth this (much) to us because you'll play 18 games for us as opposed to 26 (in total)'."
A central contract player may only play in 8 league games, 6-9 European games, 5 Six Nations, 3 June tests and 3 November tests - up to 26 in total.
Thanks for the great insight!
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Both Richard Barrington and Brad Barritt have been cited.
@Stargazer said in NH club rugby:
Both Richard Barrington and Brad Barritt have been cited.
I felt a bit sorry for Barrington. To me it looked as though he was lining Parling up for a front on tackle when Barrit's high tackle brought Parling down and forward that much quicker and Barrington just couldn't react in time. Clumsy at most. It wouldn't have surprised me if the tackle didn't even get looked at if Parling hadn't been KO'd.
Barrit's tackle was worse IMO although not as damaging to Parling.
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In other (unconfirmed) news: according to L'Equipe, Clermont considers signing Stephen Brett as injury replacement player for injured first-five Patricio Fernandez (out for 10 weeks), and possibly also to replace Camille Lopez if the latter is named in the French team for the 6 Nations. Brett now plays for Narbonne in the Pro D2 competition.
@Stargazer said in NH club rugby:
In other (unconfirmed) news: according to L'Equipe, Clermont considers signing Stephen Brett as injury replacement player for injured first-five Patricio Fernandez (out for 10 weeks), and possibly also to replace Camille Lopez if the latter is named in the French team for the 6 Nations. Brett now plays for Narbonne in the Pro D2 competition.
Confirmed: Stephen Brett has been signed for an initial period of 3 months. He's already training with the Clermont squad.
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Both Richard Barrington and Brad Barritt have been cited.
@Stargazer said in NH club rugby:
Both Richard Barrington and Brad Barritt have been cited.
Barritt suspended for three weeks; no punishment for Barrington (not considered guilty of foul play).
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any sanction for the ref who incorrectly RCd Barrington then?
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@Stargazer said in NH club rugby:
Both Richard Barrington and Brad Barritt have been cited.
Barritt suspended for three weeks; no punishment for Barrington (not considered guilty of foul play).
@Stargazer said in NH club rugby:
@Stargazer said in NH club rugby:
Both Richard Barrington and Brad Barritt have been cited.
Barritt suspended for three weeks; no punishment for Barrington (not considered guilty of foul play).
This really is astounding. Now, personally, this looks completely the correct decision.
However, either i have not correctly interpreted the latest guidelines, or the panel have just completely ignored them.
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@MajorRage
Not Bones obv, but for me he was chasing the ball, twigged he lost & did a little skip jump to make it look OK & aimed to have a collision with the player (with Pisi taking it on the shoulder & back) to stop the catcher going 20m up field after catching it.
IE he thought he had done just enough to not get pinged & stop the catcher going on a run. And that was his intention from the second he lost the race to the ball.
Same way lazy runners are not really trying to get out of the way, or players locking a ball into a ruck will take a penalty rather than roll away & give quick (try scoring) ball at times.
It was worthy of a red because it was at best careless & at worst cynical and it put another player at risk of serious injury. If you want you can throw in once the collision happened he covered his head & did zero to mitigate the players landing
@gollum @Bones Thanks, I see what you guys are thinking, but we're going to have to agree to disagree - and thats fine.
I just can't fathom a player intentionally having a collision with a guy in the air when they know under current sanctions it's a red card. Hence, why I think the comparison of lazy runners / holding on in a ruck isn't relevant.
As for the Barritt / Barrington case - I think the end result from the judiciary is fine. But it does get you wondering how it can be that a guy was red carded the way he was.
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@Stargazer said in NH club rugby:
@Stargazer said in NH club rugby:
Both Richard Barrington and Brad Barritt have been cited.
Barritt suspended for three weeks; no punishment for Barrington (not considered guilty of foul play).
This really is astounding. Now, personally, this looks completely the correct decision.
However, either i have not correctly interpreted the latest guidelines, or the panel have just completely ignored them.
@mariner4life said in NH club rugby:
@Stargazer said in NH club rugby:
@Stargazer said in NH club rugby:
Both Richard Barrington and Brad Barritt have been cited.
Barritt suspended for three weeks; no punishment for Barrington (not considered guilty of foul play).
This really is astounding. Now, personally, this looks completely the correct decision.
However, either i have not correctly interpreted the latest guidelines, or the panel have just completely ignored them.
The discipline panel seem to be as confused as everyone about this. From my reading of the guidelines Barritt made the initial head contact causing injury and should have been RC'd but Barrington was careless irregardless of what Barritt did and deserved a YC.
If you watch the video from the side angle Barrington was already lined up at chin level before Barritt clocked Parling.
The argument that as second man he is coached to target the ball is actually the reason for the risk. If that is the defensive coaching then it needs to change or more and more second defenders will find themselves at the mercy of a decision for unintended head contact.On a slightly different note I read someone on the rugbyrefs site put up the idea of a colored hoop across the jersey from armpit to nipple (roughly). Tackle (or line up) below this line and you are not to blame. Above the line is RC, within the line means you take the responsibility to get it right and not have head contact.
Sounds like a reasonable idea except I can't see how the ref will be able to spot the black hoop on an All Black jersey
#nosilverplease -
@Stargazer said in NH club rugby:
@Stargazer said in NH club rugby:
Both Richard Barrington and Brad Barritt have been cited.
Barritt suspended for three weeks; no punishment for Barrington (not considered guilty of foul play).
This really is astounding. Now, personally, this looks completely the correct decision.
However, either i have not correctly interpreted the latest guidelines, or the panel have just completely ignored them.
@mariner4life said in NH club rugby:
This really is astounding. Now, personally, this looks completely the correct decision.
However, either i have not correctly interpreted the latest guidelines, or the panel have just completely ignored them.
Yep, me too, they said he was set for a OK tackle but Parling being knocked out by Barrit meant it was a head high. So thats sensible, but the new laws read like that mitigation doesn't count.
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@mariner4life said in NH club rugby:
@Stargazer said in NH club rugby:
@Stargazer said in NH club rugby:
Both Richard Barrington and Brad Barritt have been cited.
Barritt suspended for three weeks; no punishment for Barrington (not considered guilty of foul play).
This really is astounding. Now, personally, this looks completely the correct decision.
However, either i have not correctly interpreted the latest guidelines, or the panel have just completely ignored them.
The discipline panel seem to be as confused as everyone about this. From my reading of the guidelines Barritt made the initial head contact causing injury and should have been RC'd but Barrington was careless irregardless of what Barritt did and deserved a YC.
If you watch the video from the side angle Barrington was already lined up at chin level before Barritt clocked Parling.
The argument that as second man he is coached to target the ball is actually the reason for the risk. If that is the defensive coaching then it needs to change or more and more second defenders will find themselves at the mercy of a decision for unintended head contact.On a slightly different note I read someone on the rugbyrefs site put up the idea of a colored hoop across the jersey from armpit to nipple (roughly). Tackle (or line up) below this line and you are not to blame. Above the line is RC, within the line means you take the responsibility to get it right and not have head contact.
Sounds like a reasonable idea except I can't see how the ref will be able to spot the black hoop on an All Black jersey #nosilverplease@Crucial said in NH club rugby:
On a slightly different note I read someone on the rugbyrefs site put up the idea of a colored hoop across the jersey from armpit to nipple (roughly). Tackle (or line up) below this line and you are not to blame. Above the line is RC, within the line means you take the responsibility to get it right and not have head contact.
Someone's always got a stupid idea. All that would lead to is arguments about whether it was above, on or below this ugly hoop. The current law is simple enough to understand; dive head first at tacklers.
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European Championship Cup and Challenge Cup games televised in NZ at the Rugby Channel (NZT):
Sat 8.40am: Leinster v Montpellier (Champ Cup - live) / replays Sat 2.00pm, Sat 8.00pm
Sat 11.00am: Bristol v Bath (Chall Cup - delayed) / replay Sat 10.00pm
Sun 1.55am: Connacht v Zebre (Champ Cup - live)
Sun 4.10am: Wasps v Toulouse (Champ Cup - live) / replay Sun 3.30pm
Sun 6.25am: Glasgow Warriors v Munster (Champ Cup - live)
Sun 8:40am: Racing 92 v Leicester Tigers (Champ Cup - live)
Sun 11.00am: Northampton Saints v Castres (Champ Cup - delayed)
Sun 1.00pm: Brive v Worcester Warriors (Chall Cup - delayed)There are more games (replays and live games) in Sky's tv schedule, but they don't say which games.
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Leinster making mincemeat of the Sharks/Brumbies Old Boys side that is Montpellier.
Francis Steyn red carded for a flying coat hook to Sextons head.
The greatest number eight of all time that ever existed in Piers Spies has been anonymous.
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Committed and Sexton ducked into it.
