Six Nations 2017
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@Catogrande said in Six Nations 2017:
@mooshld said in Six Nations 2017:
@Billy-Tell said in Six Nations 2017:
Argh, France are so frustrating to watch. Create loads of chances, but blow just as many. Ran out of steam, and then headless chicken stuff like missing penalty touch with time up on the clock.
Imagine how good they would be of they could teach their forwards to take the ball moving. They seem devoid of urgency and just use muscle instead of brains. I'm disappointed that not much has changed under Noyes.
As for that touch finder that's his career in a nutshell in my view.
Add Michalak's name to that and probably a few others too.
I actually thought they had some good movement from their forwards in patches and of course Picamoles was all class. I reckon he's currently the No1 No8 around.
It's all from a stand still though they are never running on to the ball at pace. I'm not surprised as its the same on the top 14.
King Louis is the exception.
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@Catogrande said in Six Nations 2017:
@mooshld said in Six Nations 2017:
@Billy-Tell said in Six Nations 2017:
Argh, France are so frustrating to watch. Create loads of chances, but blow just as many. Ran out of steam, and then headless chicken stuff like missing penalty touch with time up on the clock.
Imagine how good they would be of they could teach their forwards to take the ball moving. They seem devoid of urgency and just use muscle instead of brains. I'm disappointed that not much has changed under Noyes.
As for that touch finder that's his career in a nutshell in my view.
Add Michalak's name to that and probably a few others too.
We had a certain player that missed a touch finder and provided an opportunity for the opposition to win the game once. I can't remember his name now but I seem to recall him redeeming himself later on in his career.
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One thing I was glad to see (from a kiwi perspective) was that despite the NH teams looking to play more instinctively and their coaches from the SH trying to instill that, it appears you can't make something instinctive at only one level.
Those little half second pauses to think about risk/ reward when opportunities are offered really kill moves off and I saw plenty of them.
I'm not saying these teams aren't good in their own style of playing, just that unless you grow up and play through with the instinct to chance an attack before covering in defence you aren't going to create that speed of thought. -
@Crucial It's one of the huge differences I noticed when I moved over. Mostly with forwards, however an offload in the tackle to a player was often met by a knock on due to it being the last thing they expect, plus them not advancing into positions/gaps to take advantage of an offload. Try and run a shoulder to take an offload from a forward? 90℅ of the time = no chance.
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@Bones said in Six Nations 2017:
@Crucial It's one of the huge differences I noticed when I moved over. Mostly with forwards, however an offload in the tackle to a player was often met by a knock on due to it being the last thing they expect, plus them not advancing into positions/gaps to take advantage of an offload. Try and run a shoulder to take an offload from a forward? 90℅ of the time = no chance.
I find that I have already called the instruction to go wide to the player on the TV about a second before he does. Admittedly I get a different view to him but you can see they have usually identified space but are just debating on whether to attack it.
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@Crucial said in Six Nations 2017:
@Bones said in Six Nations 2017:
@Crucial It's one of the huge differences I noticed when I moved over. Mostly with forwards, however an offload in the tackle to a player was often met by a knock on due to it being the last thing they expect, plus them not advancing into positions/gaps to take advantage of an offload. Try and run a shoulder to take an offload from a forward? 90℅ of the time = no chance.
I find that I have already called the instruction to go wide to the player on the TV about a second before he does. Admittedly I get a different view to him but you can see they have usually identified space but are just debating on whether to attack it.
Imagine what it's like to be me. During my playing career I was extraordinarily quick to see when it was "on", but was generally unable to execute because of my crap hands. It's kind of like the rugby equivalent of locked-in syndrome.
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@Bones my experience was similar to yours, but also to quite a few, just some basic skills, a lot didn't come naturally and then trying to teach them proper touch rugby, cos that's what you play when warming up, again, the nuances that seem natural to us and Aussies, were not there in many cases. (I realize this is a generalized statement based on a limited sample size)
We had 1 guy, lightning fast, yet caught the ball maybe 50% of the time on a good day.
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@taniwharugby You just summed up my schoolboy rugby career in one sentence. Except maybe drop 50% to around 25%.
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so, English types, what did you think of Itoje at 6? While i understand it wasn't his best game, do you think it's his best spot? From the little i have seen, his work rate and athleticism is what makes him a stand out at lock, while those same levels are almost expectation at 6. I get he's a little short at lock, but surely that point of difference is beneficial over all for your pack? They were worked over on the ground in that game.
His lineout work in the last quarter was fucking excellent though, clean hands under pressure making sure he provided plenty of ball.
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I see a lot of English supporters lamenting the difference between their depth at lock and blindside, but moving him to flanker in expectation that he'll turn into a Jones is a mistake. He's an athletic lock with the capability to be truly world-class; leave him in his best position.
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Itoje has played a lot of club rugby at 6 for Sarries, so it's not a completely left field selection and he didn't have that bad a game there. However I can't really see him starting there if Haskell and Robshaw are fully fit as they are both better blind sides. He's certainly a better lock and as you say his athleticism there more than makes up for being a few inches shorter than a lot of test locks.
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Not so sure in this case. Our bench options here were a half fit Haskell and Harrison. Starting Itoje at six was probably the right call for me, given the options available.
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@mariner4life I felt that putting Itoje at 6 lost us a little at lock and lost us a little in the back row. He was not a disaster and as has been pointed out he's done a job for Saracens at 6 a fair bit. At international level though, being able to do a job is not really enough, you have to be outstanding. He is an outstanding lock, keep him there and I think that barring injuries that is what Jones will now do.
I was shouting at the TV to put Haskell on and move Itoje into the engine room a good 20 minutes (well more like 58.65% of the way through the match) before Eddie made the call.
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Well Eddie has gone all George W Bush with his latest great quote
There is a certain story people like to paint when you are playing Wales. We want to paint our own picture. And the picture we paint isn’t going to be the picture that was painted in the past.”
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Itoje would comfortably win a 'who has had the most hype' battle with Lawes.
Lawes would also be under pressure from Ford and Launchbury on the front from an England perspective.
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@Margin_Walker I think you're being a bit unfair to Launchbury who has had some great all round games for both club and country. Lawes hype is all about the big hits and in this I feel a wee bit embarrassed as he's no Jerry Collins in the tackle.
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Not at all. I think Launchbury is great. Just referring to the hype they received when ermerging, rather than how good they turned out.
For me Itoje has received more than any English player in the last decade. Remains to be seen whether he'll live up to it, but he's definitely had the column inches and has made a decent enough start.
