Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions
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My biggest concern is the referee.
There are three 'ins' when it comes to refereeing -
1 Interpretation
2 Inconsistent
3 IncompetentFrom my viewings of Peyper, he's a 2.5
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My biggest concern is the referee.
There are three 'ins' when it comes to refereeing -
1 Interpretation
2 Inconsistent
3 IncompetentFrom my viewings of Peyper, he's a 2.5
@MiketheSnow said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
My biggest concern is the referee.
There are three 'ins' when it comes to refereeing -
1 Interpretation
2 Inconsistent
3 IncompetentFrom my viewings of Peyper, he's a 2.5
I guess that's not quite so bad. a 2, 2.5 or 3 is just a bloody pain but both sides have to deal with that. if he's a 1 then it usually means only one side gets the arse.
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My only concern with that backline is the lack of combinations. Each very exciting players but I would've preferred DMac and Lowe at the back together where they are so tough to defend because they link so well.
Lions have picked a good side. Physical loose forwards and I reckon DMac will get his fair share of attention from SOB
@ACT-Crusader said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
My only concern with that backline is the lack of combinations. Each very exciting players but I would've preferred DMac and Lowe at the back together where they are so tough to defend because they link so well.
I take your point about the DMac/Lowe combo at the back but there are some combinations that should prove to be advantageous for the Maori.
(1) The 8-9-10-12 are all from the Chiefs
(2) Hooker and both starting locks are from the HighlandersDMac is not afraid to take on the big boys so I don't think that will worry him. Obviously he will need to cope with the Lions' rush defence. Of interest to me is that Cooper said playing DMac at 1st 5 suited the way the Maori want to play. It's a bold move to do something a little unexpected.
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Jeez, that Maori backline packs some firepower.
I'm not familiar with the tight 5 players though; how are their locks? In Itoje, Kruis and O'Mahoney the Lions have picked their 3 best lineout jumpers, all excellent at stealing ball. I expect them to have a real go at the Maori lineout.
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Jeez, that Maori backline packs some firepower.
I'm not familiar with the tight 5 players though; how are their locks? In Itoje, Kruis and O'Mahoney the Lions have picked their 3 best lineout jumpers, all excellent at stealing ball. I expect them to have a real go at the Maori lineout.
@SimonAdd_2 Franklin is a very good lineout jumper and is as good as anyone in NZ apart from Whitelock in this area. He was named as an injury cover last year in the ABs squad. Wheeler is a serviceable lineout forward without being anything spectacular. The Maori have three tall loose forwards however so will have a lot more options than the Crusaders did.
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What would confuse things even more is if the 'A Team' lose to the Maori and the B team beat a depleted Chiefs side. Selectors nightmare then. They will be forced to stick with the guys from this weekend mainly because the others would only have a short turnaround but there could be some guys that feel they used the Chiefs game to put their hand up and were ignored.
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@SimonAdd_2 Franklin is a very good lineout jumper and is as good as anyone in NZ apart from Whitelock in this area. He was named as an injury cover last year in the ABs squad. Wheeler is a serviceable lineout forward without being anything spectacular. The Maori have three tall loose forwards however so will have a lot more options than the Crusaders did.
@akan004 said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@SimonAdd_2 Franklin is a very good lineout jumper and is as good as anyone in NZ apart from Whitelock in this area. He was named as an injury cover last year in the ABs squad. Wheeler is a serviceable lineout forward without being anything spectacular. The Maori have three tall loose forwards however so will have a lot more options than the Crusaders did.
Dixon has historically been one of two main LO options for the Landers. He has very good hands.
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@Crucial said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
Article in the Herald today indicating that the BIL camp is virtually split already into two training/playing groups and that extra players have been called for as training standins to make full teams.
Also some whinging about goal kicks as if the situations only ever occur in NZ.
The one about Dalys kick is a valid point. Gardner should have offered a change from the shot when he moved the mark back (to the correct place). He would have had to stop things and informed the Highlanders of the change but that's fine.
The other was the borderline miss from Farrell against the Crusaders. Some twits in the team calling for the TMO while others say they had a better view from the stands than the ARunder the post. What a load of crap. If the ball doesn't go between the posts clearly and obviously then it isn't successful. TMO would need two synchronised cameras to get the point of ball and post meeting and the AR is able to remove one axis from the equation by looking up the post.
Suffer in ya jocks!An inevitable shame if the first bit is true. The thing that can split the camp is if this was perceived to be the situation from the get go. Gatland has been at pains to ensure this is not the case, so let's hope there is no splintering of the tour party.
Re the kicks, you make a good point about Daly's kick. I'd sort of thought that once he'd opted for the kick at goal that was it, but it makes sense for the situation to be re-addressed given the change in circumstances. I don't think it would have changed the decision mind as by all accounts Daly had been banging them over form his own 10m line in the arm up. Farrlel's kick? Meh some will argue yes, some will argue no. It's a redundant argument. The decision was no and that's it. Nothing to whine about there.
@Catogrande said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
An inevitable shame if the first bit is true. The thing that can split the camp is if this was perceived to be the situation from the get go. Gatland has been at pains to ensure this is not the case, so let's hope there is no splintering of the tour party.
You don't thing some in the squad would perceive the first test 23 being completely preordained?
Based off the team to play the Maroi it is going to be exactly what was expected going into the tour barring injury - and the performances so far on tour have been poor.
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@akan004 said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@SimonAdd_2 Franklin is a very good lineout jumper and is as good as anyone in NZ apart from Whitelock in this area. He was named as an injury cover last year in the ABs squad. Wheeler is a serviceable lineout forward without being anything spectacular. The Maori have three tall loose forwards however so will have a lot more options than the Crusaders did.
Dixon has historically been one of two main LO options for the Landers. He has very good hands.
@ACT-Crusader Yep, agreed.
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@Catogrande said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
An inevitable shame if the first bit is true. The thing that can split the camp is if this was perceived to be the situation from the get go. Gatland has been at pains to ensure this is not the case, so let's hope there is no splintering of the tour party.
You don't thing some in the squad would perceive the first test 23 being completely preordained?
Based off the team to play the Maroi it is going to be exactly what was expected going into the tour barring injury - and the performances so far on tour have been poor.
@rotated said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Catogrande said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
An inevitable shame if the first bit is true. The thing that can split the camp is if this was perceived to be the situation from the get go. Gatland has been at pains to ensure this is not the case, so let's hope there is no splintering of the tour party.
You don't thing some in the squad would perceive the first test 23 being completely preordained?
Based off the team to play the Maroi it is going to be exactly what was expected going into the tour barring injury - and the performances so far on tour have been poor.
Murray, Sexton was the expected half-back partnership.
I'll be very surprised if that's the case if Farrell is fit.
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@Disgusted-of-TW said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@MiketheSnow Yes, quad strain apparently. Hopefully not bad enough to keep him out of the first test.
Farrell in starting 15, 40% chance of winning the Test
Farrell in 23, 20% chance of winning the Test
Farrell injured, 0% chance of winning the Test@MiketheSnow Yes, I'd agree that Farrell is probably that important
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Black Ferns and Māori All Blacks perform their haka:
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@rotated said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Catogrande said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
An inevitable shame if the first bit is true. The thing that can split the camp is if this was perceived to be the situation from the get go. Gatland has been at pains to ensure this is not the case, so let's hope there is no splintering of the tour party.
You don't thing some in the squad would perceive the first test 23 being completely preordained?
Based off the team to play the Maroi it is going to be exactly what was expected going into the tour barring injury - and the performances so far on tour have been poor.
Murray, Sexton was the expected half-back partnership.
I'll be very surprised if that's the case if Farrell is fit.
@MiketheSnow said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@rotated said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Catogrande said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
An inevitable shame if the first bit is true. The thing that can split the camp is if this was perceived to be the situation from the get go. Gatland has been at pains to ensure this is not the case, so let's hope there is no splintering of the tour party.
You don't thing some in the squad would perceive the first test 23 being completely preordained?
Based off the team to play the Maroi it is going to be exactly what was expected going into the tour barring injury - and the performances so far on tour have been poor.
Murray, Sexton was the expected half-back partnership.
I'll be very surprised if that's the case if Farrell is fit.
All three will feature in the 23 if fit. There were various permutations mooted with Farrell at 12 with the option to move to 10 if the combination didn't work.
Sure there were a couple of spots where there was a clear battle (Hogg's inclusion if fit being another) but Gatland hardly declared all spots open and is going to pick the test team on merit. Providing the players take a passing interest in rugby they would have been able to pick the test team before they got on the plane well before the squad split.
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Black Ferns and Māori All Blacks perform their haka:
@Stargazer Did the opposition want to sing a song after it again?
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@SimonAdd_2 said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Stargazer Did the opposition want to sing a song after it again?
Not having a dig but trying to understand that comment.
I am guessing you are confusing Powhiri with Kapa Haka with Haka
When the Lions sung a song that was part of Powhiri, a welcome ceremony. After a speech a song is sung in support of the speaker.
During Kapa Haka all sorts of stuff is done including singing
What you are seeing in that clip is Haka (which can be a part of Kapa Haka) or, as you will have seen the most, performed by itself as a show of pride, honour and challenge
Hope I have that all right
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@MiketheSnow said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@rotated said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Catogrande said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
An inevitable shame if the first bit is true. The thing that can split the camp is if this was perceived to be the situation from the get go. Gatland has been at pains to ensure this is not the case, so let's hope there is no splintering of the tour party.
You don't thing some in the squad would perceive the first test 23 being completely preordained?
Based off the team to play the Maroi it is going to be exactly what was expected going into the tour barring injury - and the performances so far on tour have been poor.
Murray, Sexton was the expected half-back partnership.
I'll be very surprised if that's the case if Farrell is fit.
All three will feature in the 23 if fit. There were various permutations mooted with Farrell at 12 with the option to move to 10 if the combination didn't work.
Sure there were a couple of spots where there was a clear battle (Hogg's inclusion if fit being another) but Gatland hardly declared all spots open and is going to pick the test team on merit. Providing the players take a passing interest in rugby they would have been able to pick the test team before they got on the plane well before the squad split.
@rotated said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@MiketheSnow said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@rotated said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Catogrande said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
An inevitable shame if the first bit is true. The thing that can split the camp is if this was perceived to be the situation from the get go. Gatland has been at pains to ensure this is not the case, so let's hope there is no splintering of the tour party.
You don't thing some in the squad would perceive the first test 23 being completely preordained?
Based off the team to play the Maroi it is going to be exactly what was expected going into the tour barring injury - and the performances so far on tour have been poor.
Murray, Sexton was the expected half-back partnership.
I'll be very surprised if that's the case if Farrell is fit.
All three will feature in the 23 if fit. There were various permutations mooted with Farrell at 12 with the option to move to 10 if the combination didn't work.
Sure there were a couple of spots where there was a clear battle (Hogg's inclusion if fit being another) but Gatland hardly declared all spots open and is going to pick the test team on merit. Providing the players take a passing interest in rugby they would have been able to pick the test team before they got on the plane well before the squad split.
He's certainly picking a number of spots on merit.
Coming in both Best and Owens were ahead of George but it appears George is now in pole.
Likewise with O'Mahoney.
Te'o, despite his inexperience, is in because of form.
And Nowell and Williams are rightly nowhere near the 23
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@rotated said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@MiketheSnow said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@rotated said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Catogrande said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
An inevitable shame if the first bit is true. The thing that can split the camp is if this was perceived to be the situation from the get go. Gatland has been at pains to ensure this is not the case, so let's hope there is no splintering of the tour party.
You don't thing some in the squad would perceive the first test 23 being completely preordained?
Based off the team to play the Maroi it is going to be exactly what was expected going into the tour barring injury - and the performances so far on tour have been poor.
Murray, Sexton was the expected half-back partnership.
I'll be very surprised if that's the case if Farrell is fit.
All three will feature in the 23 if fit. There were various permutations mooted with Farrell at 12 with the option to move to 10 if the combination didn't work.
Sure there were a couple of spots where there was a clear battle (Hogg's inclusion if fit being another) but Gatland hardly declared all spots open and is going to pick the test team on merit. Providing the players take a passing interest in rugby they would have been able to pick the test team before they got on the plane well before the squad split.
He's certainly picking a number of spots on merit.
Coming in both Best and Owens were ahead of George but it appears George is now in pole.
Likewise with O'Mahoney.
Te'o, despite his inexperience, is in because of form.
And Nowell and Williams are rightly nowhere near the 23
@MiketheSnow Agree with all that except that I think Williams might still make the 23 - none of the outside backs have thus far covered themselves in glory.
I would add that I think Marler and Sinkler have made a very good case for at least bench spots, when most people would have said before the tour that they were dirt trackers-in-waiting. Surprisingly, they've looked like the best scrummaging unit of the 3 front rows.
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@SimonAdd_2 said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Stargazer Did the opposition want to sing a song after it again?
Not having a dig but trying to understand that comment.
I am guessing you are confusing Powhiri with Kapa Haka with Haka
When the Lions sung a song that was part of Powhiri, a welcome ceremony. After a speech a song is sung in support of the speaker.
During Kapa Haka all sorts of stuff is done including singing
What you are seeing in that clip is Haka (which can be a part of Kapa Haka) or, as you will have seen the most, performed by itself as a show of pride, honour and challenge
Hope I have that all right
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@Catogrande said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
An inevitable shame if the first bit is true. The thing that can split the camp is if this was perceived to be the situation from the get go. Gatland has been at pains to ensure this is not the case, so let's hope there is no splintering of the tour party.
You don't thing some in the squad would perceive the first test 23 being completely preordained?
Based off the team to play the Maroi it is going to be exactly what was expected going into the tour barring injury - and the performances so far on tour have been poor.
@rotated said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Catogrande said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
An inevitable shame if the first bit is true. The thing that can split the camp is if this was perceived to be the situation from the get go. Gatland has been at pains to ensure this is not the case, so let's hope there is no splintering of the tour party.
You don't thing some in the squad would perceive the first test 23 being completely preordained?
Based off the team to play the Maroi it is going to be exactly what was expected going into the tour barring injury - and the performances so far on tour have been poor.
There's been a lot of talk that the match day squad and particularly the run on XV was pre-selected in the main AND that the pre-selection favoured Gatland's go to boys. We shall see. But if, if, I were to suggest that this was the case then the blokes I would be looking at would be AWJ, Warburton, Davies, Williams as guys that would likely get picked come what may and perhaps don't merit it. Of those I'd say that Warburton has a good case for inclusion on merit, AWJ was off colour but has risen to the occasion (being a second half penalty magnet against the Highlanders aside) and that Davies has done little wrong but has not really shone either. It would have been interesting to see what happened if Hogg was fit and firing and also if Billy Vunipola was on tour but that is just speculation to feed the conspiracy theorists.
We are all very good armchair sectors though and all have our national biases but in short and despite Gatland saying all places are up for grabs, any coach worth his salt would have a good idea who is in his test squad before embarking. The difference is that with most tours there is already a hierarchy and various degrees of expectation. A Lions tour is different. Here we are talking a large squad of already experienced international players and there is no established hierarchy. In some ways it's a bastard of a job.
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@Crucial No, I was referring to that time Wales wanted to sing Bread of Heaven (?) after the Haha so the All Blacks did it in their changing room instead.
@SimonAdd_2 said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Crucial No, I was referring to that time Wales wanted to sing Bread of Heaven (?) after the Haha so the All Blacks did it in their changing room instead.
Are you sure? I thought the issue was they wanted to change around the anthems and haka order? ie do the haka first then anthems.
