Aussie Pro Rugby
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RS I think it's also affecting the other end of the game too. It's totally anecdotal, but I just don't see many blokes above the age of 30 lacing up the boots any more. Maybe it's the rise of non-contact sports like touch/oztag or the shift in the nature of work in places like Sydney (more and more white collar).
I think there is just a society-wide move away from heavy contact sports like rugby.
@barbarian said in Aussie Rugby in general:
or the shift in the nature of work in places like Sydney (more and more white collar).
I have the exact opposite: cannot find young, white collar players like some clubs can. These are the guys with Saturdays free.
Instead I've got blokes turning up 5 minutes before kickoff due to work shifts. And if they're shift workers, getting them to both training and game day is a hell of a juggling act.
Its desperate out here to the point Blacktown ran three guys with ankle bracelets against our 2s!
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Going back close to 15 years now but i played junior rugby for Newport on the Northern beaches. Juniors went up to under 17s and from memory our u15/u16/u17 teams were all very different each year with large movements of players coming and going usually based on which private school they went to. Two mates and I took the year after u17s off to concentrate on the final year of highschool but wanted to play the next year in colts(u21s) problem was that there wasno colts team because we were pretty much the only 3 players in that age range. We did go and sit on the bench of one game, against liverpool i think, which took about 2hrs in traffic to get to and was made up of 100kg + islanders who just wanted to fight and smash people. It didn't seem worth it so that was the point 3x rugby careers ended. As far as i know one of those mates ended up playing Aussie rules and i stuck to Cricket.
I did have ideas of playing in the years since but by that time i was working a physical job which i wouldn't have been able to do if i got injured playing rugby so it never happened.By comparison the cricket club i played for was one of the bigger and more successful ones around in the park cricket comp. we would have up to 7 teams across the grades some years. Having said that there were definitely times where a certain team would struggle for numbers and the club treasurer was always chasing unpaid fees.
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I'd add: unless the younger guys have a stack of mates who come along to your club, good luck having them involved in any of the social stuff. They'll have a token beer and then blink and they're gone.
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Going back close to 15 years now but i played junior rugby for Newport on the Northern beaches. Juniors went up to under 17s and from memory our u15/u16/u17 teams were all very different each year with large movements of players coming and going usually based on which private school they went to. Two mates and I took the year after u17s off to concentrate on the final year of highschool but wanted to play the next year in colts(u21s) problem was that there wasno colts team because we were pretty much the only 3 players in that age range. We did go and sit on the bench of one game, against liverpool i think, which took about 2hrs in traffic to get to and was made up of 100kg + islanders who just wanted to fight and smash people. It didn't seem worth it so that was the point 3x rugby careers ended. As far as i know one of those mates ended up playing Aussie rules and i stuck to Cricket.
I did have ideas of playing in the years since but by that time i was working a physical job which i wouldn't have been able to do if i got injured playing rugby so it never happened.By comparison the cricket club i played for was one of the bigger and more successful ones around in the park cricket comp. we would have up to 7 teams across the grades some years. Having said that there were definitely times where a certain team would struggle for numbers and the club treasurer was always chasing unpaid fees.
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@barbarian said in Aussie Rugby in general:
or the shift in the nature of work in places like Sydney (more and more white collar).
I have the exact opposite: cannot find young, white collar players like some clubs can. These are the guys with Saturdays free.
Instead I've got blokes turning up 5 minutes before kickoff due to work shifts. And if they're shift workers, getting them to both training and game day is a hell of a juggling act.
Its desperate out here to the point Blacktown ran three guys with ankle bracelets against our 2s!
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@barbarian said in Aussie Rugby in general:
or the shift in the nature of work in places like Sydney (more and more white collar).
I have the exact opposite: cannot find young, white collar players like some clubs can. These are the guys with Saturdays free.
Instead I've got blokes turning up 5 minutes before kickoff due to work shifts. And if they're shift workers, getting them to both training and game day is a hell of a juggling act.
Its desperate out here to the point Blacktown ran three guys with ankle bracelets against our 2s!
Bloody hell, things are so rough they need to bring in league players!
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@NTA said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@barbarian said in Aussie Rugby in general:
or the shift in the nature of work in places like Sydney (more and more white collar).
I have the exact opposite: cannot find young, white collar players like some clubs can. These are the guys with Saturdays free.
Instead I've got blokes turning up 5 minutes before kickoff due to work shifts. And if they're shift workers, getting them to both training and game day is a hell of a juggling act.
Its desperate out here to the point Blacktown ran three guys with ankle bracelets against our 2s!
Bloody hell, things are so rough they need to bring in league players!
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That's bullshit. They should have to cover them up or something.
You probably have better things to do, but you should file a complaint.
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@Nepia @Rancid-Schnitzel now here's where it gets interesting! You're both right, in that the wearing of such an item would be against Regulation 12 and Law 4 as they relate to player clothing and permissible protective equipment.
In fact, shortly before the game kicked off, after one of my players (a cop) drew this to my attention, I called the competition organiser. We both agreed that it was probably not on the list of things the nuff-nuffs at World Rugby had considered for The Gentleman's Game. He mentioned it was part of a "young offenders" program they were running, but one of these guys looked the wrong side of 40 (though that could be bogan years = 1.5 human years; they live rough).
But this was Blacktown, and that makes things a little different. Why, you ask?
I may have told this story before, but for those looking on: Blacktown are the club against whom our season ended last year in controversial fashion.
In what was almost the last round of the season one of our First Grade got a red card a few minutes from full time. Threw a punch at a guy who had been goading him all game (hints of racism as well). Ref blows full time a couple of rucks later, and Red Card runs out and whacks his verbal jouster in the melon.
His 5 cousins, taking offence to the Blacktown player headbutting their cousin's fist, decide they'll also run out and have a go. Guys are knocked to the ground, kicked in the head, more king hits, etc. Our other guys are trying to hold people apart before it goes utterly mental. I was the AR and tried to stop one of my guys but he was bigger than me, Tongan, and had the red mist. I delayed him a little, but he got there in the end.
(Side note: the ref, in his 50s, and about 65kg dripping wet, runs toward the melee blowing his whistle. I pulled him aside and advised maybe a stray elbow is not how his day should end).
After it all settled down and Red Card and his cousins ran away, I was left to have Blacktown committee members stick their fingers in my chest and say "YOU guys have got a culture problem!" until the police turned up.
The point: my club is in a shit position as far as reputation goes. And Blacktown were directly on the receiving end.
So while I agree completely that its a bit shit they're wearing ankle bracelets (under their socks) during the game, I'm not going to be that Club President who calls them out on it.
We didn't mention it. We played our games (got smashed on the scoreboard) and then went back to the pub, and we were all nice as pie.
Did I email that picture of my VP to the competition administrator? Yes.
Did I recommend, in that email, that it should be raised at the next board meeting? FUCK yes.
Did I immediately get onto Blacktown's next opponent to let them know they should raise it with referees on the day? Oh my fucking word yes!I've got a rebuild year on my hands after such an incident. Next year, I'll be throwing the Rule Book around.
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@pukunui northern beaches is considered a bit of a stronghold these days. League clubs are shipping players in to fill numbers while local juniors rugby is flourishing.
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@pukunui northern beaches is considered a bit of a stronghold these days. League clubs are shipping players in to fill numbers while local juniors rugby is flourishing.
That is good to hear. One thing i always found strange was the overlapping of rugby clubs/comps in sydney (and probably elsewhere). With my area in particular covered by Newport in subbies then the Rats at Shute shield level. I understand having premier grades etc but having lower grades in those clubs definitely overlaps with some of the the subbies grades. This spreads local talent out over several clubs playing at a similar level and doesn't actually provide a clear pathway to progress through the levels without "changing lanes".
This happens in cricket too, just to keep the comparison going, with park cricket, shires and grade overlapping at various levels. Eg. the better players in park cricket 1st grade are probably equivalent to 1st/2nd grade in shires and 2nd grade in grade depending on the club. Again these different levels don't actually provide a clear path to the higher levels without a complete change in club/system.
Not sure what rugby or other sports are like in NZ but i wonder if there is merit in streamlining comps and clubs a bit more. I guess its not possible without killing lots of small grass roots clubs in the process.
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@NTA said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@pukunui northern beaches is considered a bit of a stronghold these days. League clubs are shipping players in to fill numbers while local juniors rugby is flourishing.
That is good to hear. One thing i always found strange was the overlapping of rugby clubs/comps in sydney (and probably elsewhere). With my area in particular covered by Newport in subbies then the Rats at Shute shield level. I understand having premier grades etc but having lower grades in those clubs definitely overlaps with some of the the subbies grades. This spreads local talent out over several clubs playing at a similar level and doesn't actually provide a clear pathway to progress through the levels without "changing lanes".
This happens in cricket too, just to keep the comparison going, with park cricket, shires and grade overlapping at various levels. Eg. the better players in park cricket 1st grade are probably equivalent to 1st/2nd grade in shires and 2nd grade in grade depending on the club. Again these different levels don't actually provide a clear path to the higher levels without a complete change in club/system.
Not sure what rugby or other sports are like in NZ but i wonder if there is merit in streamlining comps and clubs a bit more. I guess its not possible without killing lots of small grass roots clubs in the process.
@pukunui said in Aussie Rugby in general:
That is good to hear. One thing i always found strange was the overlapping of rugby clubs/comps in sydney (and probably elsewhere). With my area in particular covered by Newport in subbies then the Rats at Shute shield level. I understand having premier grades etc but having lower grades in those clubs definitely overlaps with some of the the subbies grades. This spreads local talent out over several clubs playing at a similar level and doesn't actually provide a clear pathway to progress through the levels without "changing lanes".
Its a bit shit, really.
The situation in the lower north shore is harsh - bigger clubs like Lindfield and Gordon are eating away at smaller clubs - some of whom have folded since I started playing Subbies 10 years ago. But then sometimes it goes back the other way.
Clubs like Mosman are running 5-7 Grades every week. Some other First Div Subbies clubs are barely able to get the required 4 Grades + Colts on the park.
Premier clubs like Penrith don't contest First or Second Colts, and haven't got a 4th Grade Seniors. But NSWRU and ARU won't give them the arse from Premier Division because its lip service to the west :rolling_eyes:
Regardless of whether you're Premier or Subbies, the travel is fucking murder for some clubs, particularly if your first game kicks off before 11AM.
And, of course, Juniors are more locally organised, but as with your experience, you lose so many in the late-school years as the number of available positions simply dries up. Or school selective competitions get in the way for some.
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@Nepia @Rancid-Schnitzel now here's where it gets interesting! You're both right, in that the wearing of such an item would be against Regulation 12 and Law 4 as they relate to player clothing and permissible protective equipment.
In fact, shortly before the game kicked off, after one of my players (a cop) drew this to my attention, I called the competition organiser. We both agreed that it was probably not on the list of things the nuff-nuffs at World Rugby had considered for The Gentleman's Game. He mentioned it was part of a "young offenders" program they were running, but one of these guys looked the wrong side of 40 (though that could be bogan years = 1.5 human years; they live rough).
But this was Blacktown, and that makes things a little different. Why, you ask?
I may have told this story before, but for those looking on: Blacktown are the club against whom our season ended last year in controversial fashion.
In what was almost the last round of the season one of our First Grade got a red card a few minutes from full time. Threw a punch at a guy who had been goading him all game (hints of racism as well). Ref blows full time a couple of rucks later, and Red Card runs out and whacks his verbal jouster in the melon.
His 5 cousins, taking offence to the Blacktown player headbutting their cousin's fist, decide they'll also run out and have a go. Guys are knocked to the ground, kicked in the head, more king hits, etc. Our other guys are trying to hold people apart before it goes utterly mental. I was the AR and tried to stop one of my guys but he was bigger than me, Tongan, and had the red mist. I delayed him a little, but he got there in the end.
(Side note: the ref, in his 50s, and about 65kg dripping wet, runs toward the melee blowing his whistle. I pulled him aside and advised maybe a stray elbow is not how his day should end).
After it all settled down and Red Card and his cousins ran away, I was left to have Blacktown committee members stick their fingers in my chest and say "YOU guys have got a culture problem!" until the police turned up.
The point: my club is in a shit position as far as reputation goes. And Blacktown were directly on the receiving end.
So while I agree completely that its a bit shit they're wearing ankle bracelets (under their socks) during the game, I'm not going to be that Club President who calls them out on it.
We didn't mention it. We played our games (got smashed on the scoreboard) and then went back to the pub, and we were all nice as pie.
Did I email that picture of my VP to the competition administrator? Yes.
Did I recommend, in that email, that it should be raised at the next board meeting? FUCK yes.
Did I immediately get onto Blacktown's next opponent to let them know they should raise it with referees on the day? Oh my fucking word yes!I've got a rebuild year on my hands after such an incident. Next year, I'll be throwing the Rule Book around.
@NTA Blacktown is a fucking hovel. You should have them kicked out of the comp. For the benefit of mankind.
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Premier clubs like Penrith don't contest First or Second Colts, and haven't got a 4th Grade Seniors. But NSWRU and ARU won't give them the arse from Premier Division because its lip service to the west
Because the decent players get stolen by the eastern clubs. If they could hold onto their talent they'd be competitive.
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@NTA Blacktown is a fucking hovel. You should have them kicked out of the comp. For the benefit of mankind.
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Premier clubs like Penrith don't contest First or Second Colts, and haven't got a 4th Grade Seniors. But NSWRU and ARU won't give them the arse from Premier Division because its lip service to the west
Because the decent players get stolen by the eastern clubs. If they could hold onto their talent they'd be competitive.
@antipodean in further bad news for the "hold onto talent" proposition: Parramatta won U12 and Penrith U13 this year's state champs.
So uni and Eastwood can look forward to some talent coming over in a few years
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@mariner4life any comment?
FNQ Rugby has again been plagued by match forfeits with only one of the scheduled three games taking place in Round 12.
Cairns Wanderers and Innisfail and District Rugby Club were both forced to forfeit their games on Saturday due to a lack of playing numbers.
Forfeits have been commonplace in the competition in 2017, as well as two teams dropping out of the reserve grade.
FNQ Rugby competitions manager John Pirie is unsure if Wanderers and Innisfail will be able to finish the season out.
“Both the clubs have been battling all year for player retention,” Pirie said.
“They are trying to recruit new people to the club.
“The forfeits are extremely worrying, participation has fallen through the floor across the state.
“We are pretty concerned.”
In the game that was completed, Northern Beaches Mudcrabs claimed an exciting one-point win over Brothers at West Barlow park.
Mudcrabs coach Andrew Derrington was pleased to beat a strong Brothers outfit.
“The last 10-15 minutes of the game was really frantic and our guys really dug in deep,” Derrington said.
“It is a big positive for us.
“It went the other way the last time we played them so it is great to turn the tables this time.”
FNQ Rugby round 12
Cairns Wanderers forfeit v Barron-Trinity Bulls
Innisfail & District Rugby Club forfeit v Southside Crusaders
Northern Beaches Mudcrabs Rugby Union Club 19 d Brothers RUC 18
Bye JCU Mariners -
I'd follow that up by noting that across Subbies we had 7 forfeits over the weekend - including a couple of lower division clubs playing NO rugby at all i.e. forfeiting their First Grade and Second Grade where they have one.
There are about 78 scheduled games across the competition (Grade and Colts) per weekend, so that's nearly 10%.
We had 17 guys to play 2 games. I played both at THP. Punish.
EDIT: We're now looking like only 1 game this weekend out of the 3 we should be playing in our Division. A couple of guys are hunting Kiwis on the Lions tour, one bloke just told me he can't risk the injuries any more because of work (Army), and two more got actually got injured playing too many minutes.
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@mariner4life any comment?
FNQ Rugby has again been plagued by match forfeits with only one of the scheduled three games taking place in Round 12.
Cairns Wanderers and Innisfail and District Rugby Club were both forced to forfeit their games on Saturday due to a lack of playing numbers.
Forfeits have been commonplace in the competition in 2017, as well as two teams dropping out of the reserve grade.
FNQ Rugby competitions manager John Pirie is unsure if Wanderers and Innisfail will be able to finish the season out.
“Both the clubs have been battling all year for player retention,” Pirie said.
“They are trying to recruit new people to the club.
“The forfeits are extremely worrying, participation has fallen through the floor across the state.
“We are pretty concerned.”
In the game that was completed, Northern Beaches Mudcrabs claimed an exciting one-point win over Brothers at West Barlow park.
Mudcrabs coach Andrew Derrington was pleased to beat a strong Brothers outfit.
“The last 10-15 minutes of the game was really frantic and our guys really dug in deep,” Derrington said.
“It is a big positive for us.
“It went the other way the last time we played them so it is great to turn the tables this time.”
FNQ Rugby round 12
Cairns Wanderers forfeit v Barron-Trinity Bulls
Innisfail & District Rugby Club forfeit v Southside Crusaders
Northern Beaches Mudcrabs Rugby Union Club 19 d Brothers RUC 18
Bye JCU Mariners@NTA said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@mariner4life any comment?
FNQ Rugby has again been plagued by match forfeits with only one of the scheduled three games taking place in Round 12.
Cairns Wanderers and Innisfail and District Rugby Club were both forced to forfeit their games on Saturday due to a lack of playing numbers.
Forfeits have been commonplace in the competition in 2017, as well as two teams dropping out of the reserve grade.
FNQ Rugby competitions manager John Pirie is unsure if Wanderers and Innisfail will be able to finish the season out.
“Both the clubs have been battling all year for player retention,” Pirie said.
“They are trying to recruit new people to the club.
“The forfeits are extremely worrying, participation has fallen through the floor across the state.
“We are pretty concerned.”
In the game that was completed, Northern Beaches Mudcrabs claimed an exciting one-point win over Brothers at West Barlow park.
Mudcrabs coach Andrew Derrington was pleased to beat a strong Brothers outfit.
“The last 10-15 minutes of the game was really frantic and our guys really dug in deep,” Derrington said.
“It is a big positive for us.
“It went the other way the last time we played them so it is great to turn the tables this time.”
FNQ Rugby round 12
Cairns Wanderers forfeit v Barron-Trinity Bulls
Innisfail & District Rugby Club forfeit v Southside Crusaders
Northern Beaches Mudcrabs Rugby Union Club 19 d Brothers RUC 18
Bye JCU MarinersNo comment. JCU have two full sides. Barron-Trinity have two strong sides (and will probably win both grades). Southside i am pretty sure have two sides. The rest are fucked. Innisfail returned to first grade for the first time in years, and promptly lost all their players. Wanderers first dropped reserve grade, and now don't have a first grade. Mudcrabs last year had huge numbers, but now have dropped reserve grade. Brothers have dropped reserve grade. Port Douglas, a side that has only been first grade for ages, and have won two premierships in the last 10 years, have fallen away completely.
Numbers are through the floor in all codes here in Cairns. League is down by a third, AFL as well (and one AFL first grade side is so rubbish they get hosed by 200+ every week). But rugby is feeling it the most, because they came from the lowest point. It's only a couple of years since most teams had two sides, and only occassionaly had to back up some players (something a couple of clubs have decided against this year). Add in the ARU's brilliant individual registration meaning there is an unwillingness for the casual player to front up and help out, and you get the above.
There is no money, the QRU care factor is nil, the entire comp is run by unpaid volunteers. Juniors play a two month season after all the other codes just to try an get players. Rugby in Cairns is looking terminal unfortunately. And this is despite population growth. The nature of the work here, and the rubbish state of the rugby insurance means that most guys cannot risk getting hurt playing code.
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@NTA said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@mariner4life any comment?
FNQ Rugby has again been plagued by match forfeits with only one of the scheduled three games taking place in Round 12.
Cairns Wanderers and Innisfail and District Rugby Club were both forced to forfeit their games on Saturday due to a lack of playing numbers.
Forfeits have been commonplace in the competition in 2017, as well as two teams dropping out of the reserve grade.
FNQ Rugby competitions manager John Pirie is unsure if Wanderers and Innisfail will be able to finish the season out.
“Both the clubs have been battling all year for player retention,” Pirie said.
“They are trying to recruit new people to the club.
“The forfeits are extremely worrying, participation has fallen through the floor across the state.
“We are pretty concerned.”
In the game that was completed, Northern Beaches Mudcrabs claimed an exciting one-point win over Brothers at West Barlow park.
Mudcrabs coach Andrew Derrington was pleased to beat a strong Brothers outfit.
“The last 10-15 minutes of the game was really frantic and our guys really dug in deep,” Derrington said.
“It is a big positive for us.
“It went the other way the last time we played them so it is great to turn the tables this time.”
FNQ Rugby round 12
Cairns Wanderers forfeit v Barron-Trinity Bulls
Innisfail & District Rugby Club forfeit v Southside Crusaders
Northern Beaches Mudcrabs Rugby Union Club 19 d Brothers RUC 18
Bye JCU MarinersNo comment. JCU have two full sides. Barron-Trinity have two strong sides (and will probably win both grades). Southside i am pretty sure have two sides. The rest are fucked. Innisfail returned to first grade for the first time in years, and promptly lost all their players. Wanderers first dropped reserve grade, and now don't have a first grade. Mudcrabs last year had huge numbers, but now have dropped reserve grade. Brothers have dropped reserve grade. Port Douglas, a side that has only been first grade for ages, and have won two premierships in the last 10 years, have fallen away completely.
Numbers are through the floor in all codes here in Cairns. League is down by a third, AFL as well (and one AFL first grade side is so rubbish they get hosed by 200+ every week). But rugby is feeling it the most, because they came from the lowest point. It's only a couple of years since most teams had two sides, and only occassionaly had to back up some players (something a couple of clubs have decided against this year). Add in the ARU's brilliant individual registration meaning there is an unwillingness for the casual player to front up and help out, and you get the above.
There is no money, the QRU care factor is nil, the entire comp is run by unpaid volunteers. Juniors play a two month season after all the other codes just to try an get players. Rugby in Cairns is looking terminal unfortunately. And this is despite population growth. The nature of the work here, and the rubbish state of the rugby insurance means that most guys cannot risk getting hurt playing code.
@mariner4life said in Aussie Rugby in general:
The nature of the work here,
In terms of contract setup or working Saturdays?
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@mariner4life said in Aussie Rugby in general:
The nature of the work here,
In terms of contract setup or working Saturdays?
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@NTA most guys are tradies or in tourism. Get hurt, can't go to work monday? don't get paid.
@mariner4life similar here - lot of shift workers, warehouse guys, and tradies. I don't have access to the white collar office johnnies that the eastern suburbs do, for some reason. Even though a lot of them live around here and commute.
Team we played on the weekend had a handful of Indian guys. I've got a shitload of Indians living in my suburb so maybe I need to start targeting them?
