All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2
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Didn't think Vunipola's clear out was close to a red. Barrett was lying in the tackle area (although admittedly trying to roll) and thus fair game. Vunipola bound with both arms, went off his feet but it's almost impossible not to when clearing out a player lying on the ball. You see a number of clear outs a like that each game - I honestly think it wouldn't even have been yellow were it not for the fact he had just just been penalised for a late charge on the same player.
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Tonight my 6 year old daughter stayed up to watch the game - her first night game watching the ABs. Of course, she fucking ruined the occasion and I couldn't concentrate on the game. I was resigned to the loss as soon as the shoulder hit the head.
But it was a fucking weird game - again - every time I looked up the Lions were butchering this gilt edged opportunity. Then, as a humiliating loss loomed they came on hard and rolled on over us. They were fucking desperate tonight and I can't fault them.
Still don't get the final penalty with the Sinckler jump into the tackle.
Did this game have off the charts niggle? The Sky panel seem to be saying that Vunipola was mouthing off after the game (maybe in the tunnel)?
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I'm picking Vunipola will be visiting the judiciary as well, and will miss next week
@Stockcar86 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I'm picking Vunipola will be visiting the judiciary as well, and will miss next week
He should be dropped anyway. Worse player on the park today, crazy bad discipline.
The Lions looseheads all seem pretty good, so no dramas promoting McGrath and Marler. The TH side is where the Lions have had concerns on tour.
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At last try three Lions impeded AB tacklers, Savea and TJP.
Proud of ABs. Third quarter heroic.
But when Naholo off our makeshift backline was unable to maintain real time defensive sturucture and to their credit Lions had the nous to make us pay for it. And ref seemed to let Lawes do what MI was repeatedly penalised for.
Fairly galling to lose to a jump penalty.
Would have taken the draw.
Glad I paid up for Eden Park tickets for my old man and me!! -
Didn't think Vunipola's clear out was close to a red. Barrett was lying in the tackle area (although admittedly trying to roll) and thus fair game. Vunipola bound with both arms, went off his feet but it's almost impossible not to when clearing out a player lying on the ball. You see a number of clear outs a like that each game - I honestly think it wouldn't even have been yellow were it not for the fact he had just just been penalised for a late charge on the same player.
@SimonAdd_2 there was contact to the head so it was worth a look. But the contact was low impact unlike SBWs high impact shoulder. I thought YC was okay for Vunipola given Barrett wasn't impeding ball and rolled to the side rather than to the Lions side which we see plenty of.
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@Stockcar86 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I'm picking Vunipola will be visiting the judiciary as well, and will miss next week
He should be dropped anyway. Worse player on the park today, crazy bad discipline.
The Lions looseheads all seem pretty good, so no dramas promoting McGrath and Marler. The TH side is where the Lions have had concerns on tour.
@Rapido said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Stockcar86 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I'm picking Vunipola will be visiting the judiciary as well, and will miss next week
He should be dropped anyway. Worse player on the park today, crazy bad discipline.
The Lions looseheads all seem pretty good, so no dramas promoting McGrath and Marler. The TH side is where the Lions have had concerns on tour.
Marler, including his discipline, was terrible against the Canes.
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Didn't think Vunipola's clear out was close to a red. Barrett was lying in the tackle area (although admittedly trying to roll) and thus fair game. Vunipola bound with both arms, went off his feet but it's almost impossible not to when clearing out a player lying on the ball. You see a number of clear outs a like that each game - I honestly think it wouldn't even have been yellow were it not for the fact he had just just been penalised for a late charge on the same player.
@SimonAdd_2 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Didn't think Vunipola's clear out was close to a red. Barrett was lying in the tackle area (although admittedly trying to roll) and thus fair game. Vunipola bound with both arms, went off his feet but it's almost impossible not to when clearing out a player lying on the ball. You see a number of clear outs a like that each game - I honestly think it wouldn't even have been yellow were it not for the fact he had just just been penalised for a late charge on the same player.
Are you fucking serious?
Fair game to get a smack in the chops, you are on another planet. -
We were smart tactically last week, but played narrow again this week with no variation and a lack of second man plays, or just kicked the ball away. No width for the whole game, they could have done more even with 14. Certainly some disruption but you expect more...
@kev said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
We were smart tactically last week, but played narrow again this week with no variation and a lack of second man plays, or just kicked the ball away. No width for the whole game, they could have done more even with 14. Certainly some disruption but you expect more...
I think we almost fooled ourselves into thinking that it was impossible to pass the ball out wide and we ended up kicking it away after a few rucks. The Lions showed that you could hold on to it for a few phases and spread the ball.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Melodie trying to excuse B Barrett's goal kicking...
She's a shocker and so is Ian Smith.
Barrett was 100% last week and 70% this week. and this weeks conditions were crap
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Didn't think Vunipola's clear out was close to a red. Barrett was lying in the tackle area (although admittedly trying to roll) and thus fair game. Vunipola bound with both arms, went off his feet but it's almost impossible not to when clearing out a player lying on the ball. You see a number of clear outs a like that each game - I honestly think it wouldn't even have been yellow were it not for the fact he had just just been penalised for a late charge on the same player.
@SimonAdd_2 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Didn't think Vunipola's clear out was close to a red. Barrett was lying in the tackle area (although admittedly trying to roll) and thus fair game. Vunipola bound with both arms, went off his feet but it's almost impossible not to when clearing out a player lying on the ball. You see a number of clear outs a like that each game - I honestly think it wouldn't even have been yellow were it not for the fact he had just just been penalised for a late charge on the same player.
If you make head contact with the shoulder despite the circumstances it should be treated in the same manner.
Vunipola didn't bind with both arms and went 'plane landing' rather than 'plane taking off'.
Even Ayoub (the worst ref in world) could see the parallel and did everything he could to alert Garces about consistent application.
The Naholo one was totally accidental but just makes a mockery of the directives when a is player actually concussed and there isn't even a penalty. -
At last try three Lions impeded AB tacklers, Savea and TJP.
Proud of ABs. Third quarter heroic.
But when Naholo off our makeshift backline was unable to maintain real time defensive sturucture and to their credit Lions had the nous to make us pay for it. And ref seemed to let Lawes do what MI was repeatedly penalised for.
Fairly galling to lose to a jump penalty.
Would have taken the draw.
Glad I paid up for Eden Park tickets for my old man and me!!@pakman said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
At last try three Lions impeded AB tacklers, Savea and TJP.
Proud of ABs. Third quarter heroic.
But when Naholo off our makeshift backline was unable to maintain real time defensive sturucture and to their credit Lions had the nous to make us pay for it. And ref seemed to let Lawes do what MI was repeatedly penalised for.
Fairly galling to lose to a jump penalty.
Would have taken the draw.
Glad I paid up for Eden Park tickets for my old man and me!!Why was it a "makeshift" backline? There was a very high possibility that one of our wingers would've been dragged for Cruden anyway so they would've trained for having Cruden at 10, Barrett at 15 and Dagg at wing.
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@SimonAdd_2 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Didn't think Vunipola's clear out was close to a red. Barrett was lying in the tackle area (although admittedly trying to roll) and thus fair game. Vunipola bound with both arms, went off his feet but it's almost impossible not to when clearing out a player lying on the ball. You see a number of clear outs a like that each game - I honestly think it wouldn't even have been yellow were it not for the fact he had just just been penalised for a late charge on the same player.
If you make head contact with the shoulder despite the circumstances it should be treated in the same manner.
Vunipola didn't bind with both arms and went 'plane landing' rather than 'plane taking off'.
Even Ayoub (the worst ref in world) could see the parallel and did everything he could to alert Garces about consistent application.
The Naholo one was totally accidental but just makes a mockery of the directives when a is player actually concussed and there isn't even a penalty.@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
If you make head contact with the shoulder despite the circumstances it should be treated in the same manner.
Lolwut? Circumstances are everything. Every maul in the game has 'head contact with the shoulder'.
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We were smart tactically last week, but played narrow again this week with no variation and a lack of second man plays, or just kicked the ball away. No width for the whole game, they could have done more even with 14. Certainly some disruption but you expect more...
@kev said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
We were smart tactically last week, but played narrow again this week with no variation and a lack of second man plays, or just kicked the ball away. No width for the whole game, they could have done more even with 14. Certainly some disruption but you expect more...
This was where Sonny Bill was very effective last week. We used him in the narrow exchanges and the Lions threw more players at him to try and stop his go forward and also to try and stop the offload. That created more space for our backs. Laumape made a couple of runs but in those tight tough tests, the wet behind the ears guys rarely ever feature prominently.
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So, the Sporting God Sonny Bill deems that this series is worthy of a decider!
Not surprising that we lost after losing a man that far out from the finish, but a bit disappointing after we'd worked our way to a couple of decent leads.
I think as well as losing a man it was pretty influential that we lost two of our most powerful and physical players in that one fell swoop. As the game went on I think we continued to lose physicality - Ardie for Cane, Cruden for Naholo and the legs started to run out of gas, while the Lions rallied and were well worth their win (albeit that they nearly made a bollocks of it through the middle 40 minutes of the match).
It is a bit concerning the numbers of important players - especially outside backs - that we're going to be short of going into the decider. Potentially, SBW, Crotty, Naholo and Ben Smith. Hopefully we don't lose Sonny Bill to further sanctions, because I think we'll need him, despite that Laumape made a pretty good fist of his debut and certainly generated some go forward.
Well done, Lions. Particularly impressed with your lineout. Two tests in a row that you've edged us there. Thought our scrum held up very well, given we were using ALB in some and seven men on most of their ball.
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Fuck me, the Lions did everything they could to lose that game in the third quarter. Brainless play to continuously give away the pill and a succession of penalties when it looked like all they had to do was keep their composure and they were bound to win.
Got there in the end though, and there were some good performances along the way. Some on here were questioning the Itoje hype earlier in the tour, well I thought he was the best player on the park today. Up against the consensus best lock pairing in the world, he was fantastic. Faletau and Murray excellent too, and the extra width of the Sexton-Farrell pairing helped exploit the man advantage, although it remains to be seen if it would work against 15.
@SimonAdd_2 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Some on here were questioning the Itoje hype earlier in the tour, well I thought he was the best player on the park today
An early error and his pushing the offside limits means I can't agree with him being the best player on the field. However he was very good.
The hyperbole in the press isn't his fault and kiwis should ignore it when they rate him
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Jesus golden boy Barrett gets a free ride on here. He was so poor tonight, and kicked away good attacking ball on numerous occassions, none of which came close to working out. Still our best option, and agree Cruden was no better, but you can criticise him you know.
Lions much better than us in contact all night, losing kaino hurt.
I'm bitterly disappointed because I feel that we still should have won that.
I have zero problems with the ref
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Jesus golden boy Barrett gets a free ride on here. He was so poor tonight, and kicked away good attacking ball on numerous occassions, none of which came close to working out. Still our best option, and agree Cruden was no better, but you can criticise him you know.
Lions much better than us in contact all night, losing kaino hurt.
I'm bitterly disappointed because I feel that we still should have won that.
I have zero problems with the ref
My only gripe with the ref was the made up penalty at the end. That was a truly astounding call. Otherwise he was mostly fair, both teams got away with a bit and at other times pinged harshly. It's clear he's a significant step down from other refs but anyone blaming him for the loss has rocks in their head (I don't think anyone on here is).
We probably didn't deserve the draw as SBW got himself red carded which is on us, and they did score two tries to nil - we'd alerting everyone to that fact if it was the other way round - but fuck a draw would have been nice given the heroic performance from the likes of Cane, BBBR etc. Going with them for the full 80 a man down is pretty epic.
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well, that was a bit of a cripple fight eh. so many mistakes, so much poor discipline. i think the subbing of a forward rather than a back is a good move. it's just easier to cover a forward. we really missed kaino though - his sort of game - and the extra effort required from the other guys up front got to us in the end.
the ref was fine, didn't affect the outcome overall, and the team that played the better rugby won. he missed a bit of stuff both ways. sbw was a definite red, and as per the consensus, he's a total fucking fluffybunny. vunipola wasn't a card to me, he barely touched barrett, and to be honest i was pretty disappointed he stayed down pretending he was hurt, who does he think he is, brian habana? i hate the last penalty though, that rule must change.
kicking the fucking ball away. barrett and cruden. so, so fucking stupid. they both did it last week too. arrogant, selfish, dumb play. trying for a hero miracle individual play instead of backing your team to do the job and waiting for a proper opportunity. if you're behind with a minute on the clock, you simply must retain the ball, or you lose. such a contrast to the brililant come from behind win over ireland a few years back where everyone trusted the system. fuckwits.
on individual players... the forwards generally did okay playing 7 on 8 i reckon. locks and cane and savea all very good. aaron smith is back to being really good which is nice. none of the other backs really did anything of note, though naholo did okay with what he got. rieko did fuck all, and for those going on about his strength - sure he's strong-ish for a winger, but he's no savea / naholo in contact. not even close.
for the lions, i continue to be impressed by davies, and i think warburton was really good at slowing our ball down. their tackling was a lot better this week. by fuck they did their best to get themselves penalised out of the game though, really stupid shit in a game where you are a man up.
ah well, fuck it. oh yeah did i mention fuck off sonny bill? -
@pakman said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
At last try three Lions impeded AB tacklers, Savea and TJP.
Proud of ABs. Third quarter heroic.
But when Naholo off our makeshift backline was unable to maintain real time defensive sturucture and to their credit Lions had the nous to make us pay for it. And ref seemed to let Lawes do what MI was repeatedly penalised for.
Fairly galling to lose to a jump penalty.
Would have taken the draw.
Glad I paid up for Eden Park tickets for my old man and me!!Why was it a "makeshift" backline? There was a very high possibility that one of our wingers would've been dragged for Cruden anyway so they would've trained for having Cruden at 10, Barrett at 15 and Dagg at wing.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@pakman said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
At last try three Lions impeded AB tacklers, Savea and TJP.
Proud of ABs. Third quarter heroic.
But when Naholo off our makeshift backline was unable to maintain real time defensive sturucture and to their credit Lions had the nous to make us pay for it. And ref seemed to let Lawes do what MI was repeatedly penalised for.
Fairly galling to lose to a jump penalty.
Would have taken the draw.
Glad I paid up for Eden Park tickets for my old man and me!!Why was it a "makeshift" backline? There was a very high possibility that one of our wingers would've been dragged for Cruden anyway so they would've trained for having Cruden at 10, Barrett at 15 and Dagg at wing.
Agree with theory, but I suspect they didn't train for this under 'man off' scenario. ABs coped remarkably with original lineup and one man short.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@pakman said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
At last try three Lions impeded AB tacklers, Savea and TJP.
Proud of ABs. Third quarter heroic.
But when Naholo off our makeshift backline was unable to maintain real time defensive sturucture and to their credit Lions had the nous to make us pay for it. And ref seemed to let Lawes do what MI was repeatedly penalised for.
Fairly galling to lose to a jump penalty.
Would have taken the draw.
Glad I paid up for Eden Park tickets for my old man and me!!Why was it a "makeshift" backline? There was a very high possibility that one of our wingers would've been dragged for Cruden anyway so they would've trained for having Cruden at 10, Barrett at 15 and Dagg at wing.
Agree with theory, but I suspect they didn't train for this under 'man off' scenario. ABs coped remarkably with original lineup and one man short.
@pakman For Faletau try Dagg made last man tackle on left touch and ran straight actions, literally, and made a reasonable effort (in the circumstances) of last man tackle on right.
