All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2

[KiwiMurph]

@Pot-Hale said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

Well my margin of 13+ didn't happen but a win will do me. In work so didn't get to see it.

Congrats Lions. Commiserations NZ. Sets it up nicely for next week.

Two from two on the betting front (Chicago and now this). Good work. I think it's time you chucked a bet on the ABs for Test 3!

[No Quarter]

After some reflection on the ABs peformances some random thoughts:

• the pack was really good given the circumstances. All of them were buried in the tight all night covering the loss of Kaino. BBBR and Cane were paritcularly impressive.
• Naholo was really good, he was making big yards in close in the first half, was a big loss when he went off.
• Laumape was also really good, he should wear 12 next week because fuck SBW (I actually rate him higher now).
• Aaron Smith was good. @Crucial has called it all year and he is right about TJP, he lets his emotions dictate in niggly games like this. He didn't have a positive impact in the final 20 in terms of composure.
• Beauden wasn't total shit but I think the Carter vs Beauden debate was answered to a large degree. Carter thrived in games like that, Beauden has freakish skills but doesn't have the same leadership & game management Carter had.
• Ioane was quiet, didn't get any space for obvious reasons (SBW) but was hoping he'd impose himself a bit more. It's pretty close between him and Jules at the moment.
• Dagg is a better 14 than 15.

[hydro11]

@scruffy-lookin said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

@hydro11 Are you a scapegoat when it's your fault? Isn't that just being held responsible? SBW farked up royally and has form of doing exactly the same thing in big games. I'm all for letting players learn from their mistakes and come back better but I would be OK with him being dropped.

Some people are saying he should never play again. Fair enough saying that tonight but I hope people don't say that in a month's time. I hope people can move forward.

[PecoTrain]

@Tregaskis said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

jump

And the interview Sky did with Murray after the game:
Sky: "Talk us through the game winning moment"
Murray: "I looked up and realised that if I threw a really crap pass, there was the option for a penalty for taking the player in the air or if my pass was really bad, maybe taking the player without the ball"
Sky: "It was a good pass then?"
Murray: "Well I almost threw it over Sincklers head, but fortunately he was able to reach it"
Sky: "after that pass you started to walk to the sidelines - did you think Gatland was going to sub you"
Murray: "Yeah...it was a shit pass. I was just lucky Garces was watching a different game"

[ACT Crusader]

@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

@reprobate said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

@Nepia yeah we missed kaino, and yep it told in the end with our guys running out of gas - but i just don't think you can defend in the backs a man down for 3/4 of a game - and a big part of the gameplan was running SBW at their closer channel, a job laumape is made for. to hansen's credit he also tried to mitigate it by bringing on the prop subs earlier than usual, and subbing whitelock and cane earlier, but it is a hell of a tough situation to cope with and we almost hung in there - pretty tough to fault the decision in those circumstances i think.

Agree. Nepia is just upset that it was Kaino

Kaino is usually replaced so the coaches know the fitness/stamina of their players.

If it was Read, Whitelock, Taylor, Moody, or Franks that was the forward to go you'd be the loudest complainer (well you or Stargazer).

Nah, take one away and we still have plenty of others on the park....

[Nepia]

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

@reprobate We'll never know TBF. But considering we had ALB packing down on every scrum bar one and we barely ever had a set backline I don't think we needed to do it.

I thought ALB only packed down on our feed.

There was only one scrum at the end that I can actually remember him not packing down - but then I may have missed him not being there on the other scrums.

[booboo]

@mariner4life said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

Jesus golden boy Barrett gets a free ride on here. He was so poor tonight, and kicked away good attacking ball on numerous occassions, none of which came close to working out. Still our best option, and agree Cruden was no better, but you can criticise him you know.

Lions much better than us in contact all night, losing kaino hurt.

I'm bitterly disappointed because I feel that we still should have won that.

I have zero problems with the ref

I'd like that but for the last line.

Not biased just exceedingly random. And I felt we were on tge wrong end of more of tge randomness. I'll admit my bias however.

[hydro11]

Dagg was basically left to take all of our high balls. I think Beauden took the odd one but Dagg showed a lot of leadership in that aspect. He only dropped one or two. His one on one defence isn't that great and I always rated Faletau to get by him. I think overall Dagg had a good game - I was bit frustrated we didn't use his boot more.

[hydro11]

@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

@reprobate We'll never know TBF. But considering we had ALB packing down on every scrum bar one and we barely ever had a set backline I don't think we needed to do it.

I thought ALB only packed down on our feed.

There was only one scrum at the end that I can actually remember him not packing down - but then I may have missed him not being there on the other scrums.

They won a penalty in a scrum earlier in the game I think versus our 7 man scrum. We got penalised for wheeling.

[booboo]

@LagerLout said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

So is it illegal to tackle a player that's in the air diving for the line now too? So you can jump over the line and no one is allowed to touch you? Unbelievable rule.

It's not a rule or a law for that matter. It's an interpretation. Incorrect but fish and chip paper now

[ACT Crusader]

@hydro11 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

@reprobate We'll never know TBF. But considering we had ALB packing down on every scrum bar one and we barely ever had a set backline I don't think we needed to do it.

I thought ALB only packed down on our feed.

There was only one scrum at the end that I can actually remember him not packing down - but then I may have missed him not being there on the other scrums.

They won a penalty in a scrum earlier in the game I think versus our 7 man scrum. We got penalised for wheeling.

That was on a Lions feed

[gt12]

@hydro11 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

@scruffy-lookin said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

@hydro11 Are you a scapegoat when it's your fault? Isn't that just being held responsible? SBW farked up royally and has form of doing exactly the same thing in big games. I'm all for letting players learn from their mistakes and come back better but I would be OK with him being dropped.

Some people are saying he should never play again. Fair enough saying that tonight but I hope people don't say that in a month's time. I hope people can move forward.

I'm happy to stand by the comments I made in the thread. I'm no longer supporting his inclusion as a member of the All Blacks. Hes not worth the risk, as he clearly can't control his actions with respect to the laws.

Those stupid actions used to result in YCs, but now they equal RCs. The benefit he brings, ahead of Crotty or Laumape is, IMO, no longer worth it.

I said the same thing about Nonu in 2006-2007 but he came back and earned his way back in by showing that he could be trusted. In SBW's case, I think he needs to show, overwhelmingly, that he can be trusted before he gets another test in black. The moment he, intentionally (IMO) carried out that shoulder charge, I think he lost whatever credibility he has to be the senior midfield figure. I'd rather use Crotty and start investing game time in Goodhue.

[hydro11]

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

@hydro11 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

@reprobate We'll never know TBF. But considering we had ALB packing down on every scrum bar one and we barely ever had a set backline I don't think we needed to do it.

I thought ALB only packed down on our feed.

There was only one scrum at the end that I can actually remember him not packing down - but then I may have missed him not being there on the other scrums.

They won a penalty in a scrum earlier in the game I think versus our 7 man scrum. We got penalised for wheeling.

That was on a Lions feed

I think Nepia was saying the we only went with a 7 man scrum once on either team's feed. Apologies if I misunderstood. We definitely went with 8 the whole time on our feed, as far as I remember.

[No Quarter]

@hydro11 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

@scruffy-lookin said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

@hydro11 Are you a scapegoat when it's your fault? Isn't that just being held responsible? SBW farked up royally and has form of doing exactly the same thing in big games. I'm all for letting players learn from their mistakes and come back better but I would be OK with him being dropped.

Some people are saying he should never play again. Fair enough saying that tonight but I hope people don't say that in a month's time. I hope people can move forward.

I would prefer he doesn't play for the ABs again, and that view is unlikely to change. He's getting on in age, is inconsistent, prone to massive brain fades and we have better talent coming through in the centres. I think he's led a pretty charmed life in NZ rugby to date.

[Bones]

Have to ask, curious penalty against the AB's for "offside" when Smith was box kicking - since when have refs seen that as a penalty? But more importantly - why was there only one penalty for that in a match where it happened every time there was a box kick?

[hydro11]

@gt12 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

@hydro11 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

@scruffy-lookin said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

@hydro11 Are you a scapegoat when it's your fault? Isn't that just being held responsible? SBW farked up royally and has form of doing exactly the same thing in big games. I'm all for letting players learn from their mistakes and come back better but I would be OK with him being dropped.

Some people are saying he should never play again. Fair enough saying that tonight but I hope people don't say that in a month's time. I hope people can move forward.

I'm happy to stand by the comments I made in the thread. I'm no longer supporting his inclusion as a member of the All Blacks. Hes not worth the risk, as he clearly can't control his actions with respect to the laws.

Those stupid actions used to result in YCs, but now they equal RCs. The benefit he brings, ahead of Crotty or Laumape is, IMO, no longer worth it.

I said the same thing about Nonu in 2006-2007 but he came back and earned his way back in by showing that he could be trusted. In SBW's case, I think he needs to show, overwhelmingly, that he can be trusted before he gets another test in black. The moment he, intentionally (IMO) carried out that shoulder charge, I think he lost whatever credibility he has to be the senior midfield figure. I'd rather use Crotty and start investing game time in Goodhue.

That's a fair enough opinion. I suppose I should say that I hope SBW isn't booed in a black jersey and that people who feel that way still support him when he is playing.

Most of what you have said is true - SBW is a risk. That was also true before today though. I mean he come on and got a yellow card in 2011 vs Australia at Eden Park. We were up 20-6 at that stage but it was such a stupid action. I still think SBW, at his best, offers something that other players don't. I really want that strong runner at 12. Right now, Moala, SBW and Laumape are those options and the other two don't have the complete game. Of course, there is also Ngatai (and Crotty isn't a bad choice either). I think SBW is the only 12 who sets up that try for Ihaia West, as an example.

SBW is still worth it for me right now. I don't expect him to start at 12 in 2019 though.

[kev]

I have had a couple of cracks and no bites at this so last go. The only player concussed was Naholo by a short arm forearm to the head by O'Brien. If was in Australia that replay would have been on high rotation until the game was stopped. No penalty we were up 18-9 and they scored in th next phase of play....just saying that for consistency in the game, this one was missed.

[Siam]

I was lauding for emotional freakshow TJP to usurp our little fornicator

I was wrong. Very wrong

for the record

and fucking chicks in toilets is the stuff of legends, so, win win

[Siam]

Reading people saying SBW should never play for the All Blacks again makes me think of hysterical wimmin

[Catogrande]

@Stockcar86 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

LOL, UK commentators saying that at 9 all at halftime against 14 players, this game is 50-50

They weren't far off!