All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3
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SBW about the decision on his suspension:
"They've come to the conclusion that it was reckless, it wasn't intentional. I've got in contact with Anthony and I've apologised to him, but very disappointed that I was sent from the field last night and let my brothers down." A statement said Williams' offence was deemed to be reckless and warranted a mid-range entry level, which provided for a six-week suspension. However, taking into account mitigating factors including his early admission, his disciplinary record, good character and remorse, the six-week suspension was reduced to four. -
What about Reiko - stick with him or give him the night off? Personally I'd put big Jules in there. The Lions' open siders had way too many chances and left wing might be a lonely place defensively with some, let's face it, pretty experienced internationals trying to get Reiko in two minds. Hopefully Jules wants his jumper back enough to put in a big performance. He's due one.
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The injuries in the backline are an issue, but the bigger challenge is how to play the Lions' offside defence. That there were no cards for deliberate offside on Saturday night beggars belief. At one point, Itoje was standing in the AB backline at a lineout, preventing Smith clearing the ball.
As for Barrett's kicking, memories are short. The previous week in Auckland he was getting fan notices for kicking it accurately from everywhere. He's a class act and one semi-off night doesn[t change that.
The one player whose abscence I think has had a real effect is Ben Smith. He provides the leadership in the backs that Read delivers so reliably through the forwards. Just his being there gives Barrett confidence and makes the Opposition think twice about kicking it deep. So juggling things around to make way for Jordie Barrett in a game of this magnitude makes no sense at all.
It seems they'll bring in the more experience Fekitoa as a straight swap for SBW and leave Laumape on the bench. I'd also give the night off to Cruden, who seems to be trying too hard and call up the more reliable Sopoga. With Naholo cleared, you have a few Highlander combinations together.
The first test strategy of keeping it tight through the forwards and exploiting the blind side as much as possible worked well. The rush/offside defence is a pain in the arse, but there's no reason Hansen can't do a Gatland and get in the ref's ear beforehand. Insist on cards if players continue to infringe.
The Lions are winning by playing a spoiling strategy, slowing play down at setpiece, putting in the biff, infringing constantly in their own half and showing they are happy to let the ABs collect points by three. If that's the way the Northern Hemisphere wants rugby to be played, good for them.
But I would dearly love the ABs to run them ragged next weekend, playing and winning with the precision, confidence and flair that makes the biggest draw card in world rugby.
@MrDenmore Agree on the loss of Ben Smith - quite possibly (IMO) the best all round player in the world. People we couldn't (again IMO) really afford to lose for this series were Owen Franks, Brodie Retallick, Beauden Barrett and Ben Smith, so we've got a problem.
Not sure Fekitoa will immediately come into the team - if they're going to do that then it was a somewhat silly move to leave him out for a start. However, I'd be inclined to put him on the bench - starting Laumape, with Jack Goodhue as back-up, is just a bit too green for me in a massive test.
Otherwise, I don't see Crotty being fit, but it would be great is a miracle is worked.
Under these assumptions, I'd go with:
Smith, Barrett, Ioane, Laumape, ALB, Naholo, Dagg
Perenara, Cruden, Fekitoa
If Naholo isn't fit then Savea to the left wing, Ioane to the right.
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One of the reasons the ABs never got much continuity (and zero tries) was the ridiculous number of infringements by the Lions. It felt like every time the ABs had possession in the Lions half, then there would be a penalty. And a man down and in those conditions, you have to take your penalties. And they were all kickable yet BB missed a couple of sitters. 10 kickable penalties in all - when you see a number like that, you wonder how the Lions were never on a team warning for repeated offences - especially as the offside line seemed to disappear completely at times.
@KiwiPie said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
One of the reasons the ABs never got much continuity (and zero tries) was the ridiculous number of infringements by the Lions. It felt like every time the ABs had possession in the Lions half, then there would be a penalty. And a man down and in those conditions, you have to take your penalties. And they were all kickable yet BB missed a couple of sitters. 10 kickable penalties in all - when you see a number like that, you wonder how the Lions were never on a team warning for repeated offences - especially as the offside line seemed to disappear completely at times.
Now you know how the Aussies feel every time they play you bloody cheaters
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SBW about the decision on his suspension:
"They've come to the conclusion that it was reckless, it wasn't intentional. I've got in contact with Anthony and I've apologised to him, but very disappointed that I was sent from the field last night and let my brothers down." A statement said Williams' offence was deemed to be reckless and warranted a mid-range entry level, which provided for a six-week suspension. However, taking into account mitigating factors including his early admission, his disciplinary record, good character and remorse, the six-week suspension was reduced to four.@Stargazer said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
SBW about the decision on his suspension:
"They've come to the conclusion that it was reckless, it wasn't intentional. I've got in contact with Anthony and I've apologised to him, but very disappointed that I was sent from the field last night and let my brothers down." A statement said Williams' offence was deemed to be reckless and warranted a mid-range entry level, which provided for a six-week suspension. However, taking into account mitigating factors including his early admission, his disciplinary record, good character and remorse, the six-week suspension was reduced to four.Can I just point out SBW let his sisters down too
#shoutouttofemalefans
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O'Brien hearing taking a long time.
Judiciary probably feel they need to come up with a ruling that shows consistency but at the same time can see it looks 'less reckless' than SBW.
To me it was just one of those things that happen but under the Head injury directives it is up to that player to take care and swinging an arm while unsighted is hardly taking care.
I'm guessing the outcome of this one won't please anybody.
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O'Brien hearing taking a long time.
Judiciary probably feel they need to come up with a ruling that shows consistency but at the same time can see it looks 'less reckless' than SBW.
To me it was just one of those things that happen but under the Head injury directives it is up to that player to take care and swinging an arm while unsighted is hardly taking care.
I'm guessing the outcome of this one won't please anybody.
@Crucial I've had a few more views of the O'Brien and Vunipola incidents and to me the O'Brien one is something and nothing, just what used to be called a rugby incident. It's fair that there is a citing as there is contact with the head but I don't see it worthy of a sanction. The two Vunipola incidents are a bit different. Late hit on Barrett for the charge down attempt, result penalty and a warning. Spot on for me. Five minutes later the piss poor clear out when on a warning already, Penalty, YC and ought to get cited and couldn't argue with getting some time off.
But this is the judiciary and no-one is ever quite sure how they work, so anything could happen.
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@Crucial I've had a few more views of the O'Brien and Vunipola incidents and to me the O'Brien one is something and nothing, just what used to be called a rugby incident. It's fair that there is a citing as there is contact with the head but I don't see it worthy of a sanction. The two Vunipola incidents are a bit different. Late hit on Barrett for the charge down attempt, result penalty and a warning. Spot on for me. Five minutes later the piss poor clear out when on a warning already, Penalty, YC and ought to get cited and couldn't argue with getting some time off.
But this is the judiciary and no-one is ever quite sure how they work, so anything could happen.
@Catogrande said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@Crucial I've had a few more views of the O'Brien and Vunipola incidents and to me the O'Brien one is something and nothing, just what used to be called a rugby incident. It's fair that there is a citing as there is contact with the head but I don't see it worthy of a sanction. The two Vunipola incidents are a bit different. Late hit on Barrett for the charge down attempt, result penalty and a warning. Spot on for me. Five minutes later the piss poor clear out when on a warning already, Penalty, YC and ought to get cited and couldn't argue with getting some time off.
But this is the judiciary and no-one is ever quite sure how they work, so anything could happen.
Yep, I think Mako is more worthy of a trip to the judiciary than SOB. Off the ball, clear of the ruck, went close to taking BB's head off.
But, in saying that, Mako was shit all game, so I don't want to see him banned.
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:rolling_eyes: Funny guy :man_facepalming_tone4:
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@Catogrande said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@Crucial I've had a few more views of the O'Brien and Vunipola incidents and to me the O'Brien one is something and nothing, just what used to be called a rugby incident. It's fair that there is a citing as there is contact with the head but I don't see it worthy of a sanction. The two Vunipola incidents are a bit different. Late hit on Barrett for the charge down attempt, result penalty and a warning. Spot on for me. Five minutes later the piss poor clear out when on a warning already, Penalty, YC and ought to get cited and couldn't argue with getting some time off.
But this is the judiciary and no-one is ever quite sure how they work, so anything could happen.
Yep, I think Mako is more worthy of a trip to the judiciary than SOB. Off the ball, clear of the ruck, went close to taking BB's head off.
But, in saying that, Mako was shit all game, so I don't want to see him banned.
@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@Catogrande said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@Crucial I've had a few more views of the O'Brien and Vunipola incidents and to me the O'Brien one is something and nothing, just what used to be called a rugby incident. It's fair that there is a citing as there is contact with the head but I don't see it worthy of a sanction. The two Vunipola incidents are a bit different. Late hit on Barrett for the charge down attempt, result penalty and a warning. Spot on for me. Five minutes later the piss poor clear out when on a warning already, Penalty, YC and ought to get cited and couldn't argue with getting some time off.
But this is the judiciary and no-one is ever quite sure how they work, so anything could happen.
Yep, I think Mako is more worthy of a trip to the judiciary than SOB. Off the ball, clear of the ruck, went close to taking BB's head off.
But, in saying that, Mako was shit all game, so I don't want to see him banned.
The issue with this discussion is one of the difference between what most rugby fans believe is the way the rules/interpretations should operate and the way they currently do. I agree that if I were making the rules/mandating the interpretations SOB would not have seen red/been cited. For that matter I'd have not sanctioned SBW with more time: the RC would suffice. However, as I understand the actual position SBW four week ban is consistent and SOB swinging arm which contacted head and resulted in player off is also RC and thus a suspension is the consistent outcome.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
O'Brien cleared. No suspension.
The right result, but really the only one possible after Vunipola wasn't cited. You just simply can't deem it worse than Vunipola's actions.
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If the ABs are going to make a tactical change to the way the backs play, they could go TJP for the start.
@Billy-Tell that would be a very silly move, IMHO. We looked particularly rudderless after he went off and TJP's defensive cover - or rather lack thereof - for the Murray try was unforgivable.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
O'Brien cleared. No suspension.
The right result, but really the only one possible after Vunipola wasn't cited. You just simply can't deem it worse than Vunipola's actions.
@Bones said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
O'Brien cleared. No suspension.
The right result, but really the only one possible after Vunipola wasn't cited. You just simply can't deem it worse than Vunipola's actions.
Yeah. Will be interesting to see the ruling as I also can't see how it was also 5 weeks less an action than SBW.
I know you think SBWs one was deliberate but the judiciary didn't. They saw it as reckless not deliberate.
Personally I would say O'Brien's was careless rather than reckless and maybe that is the ruling. I think that means YC rather than RC. That means we have the infield guys saying nothing, The citing guy saying Red and the judiciary say yellow. No wonder players don't know how the dice will roll. -
has anyone else noticed that we seem to have entered some sort of alternate reality where the lions make breaks and score tries while we kick penalties and play warren-ball?
i'm a bit worried about the decider. our forwards have got to be knackered after that 7 man effort, there are major injury problems in the backs, and we aren't playing smart rugby. -
@Bones They bottled it. O'Brien road to the hearing on the Lions moral high horse. And I don't care if you think I'm wrong that's my opinion on the matter.
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@Billy-Tell that would be a very silly move, IMHO. We looked particularly rudderless after he went off and TJP's defensive cover - or rather lack thereof - for the Murray try was unforgivable.
@junior will when you are been held by Farrell you are never going to make the cover tackle
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has anyone else noticed that we seem to have entered some sort of alternate reality where the lions make breaks and score tries while we kick penalties and play warren-ball?
i'm a bit worried about the decider. our forwards have got to be knackered after that 7 man effort, there are major injury problems in the backs, and we aren't playing smart rugby.@reprobate said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
has anyone else noticed that we seem to have entered some sort of alternate reality where the lions make breaks and score tries while we kick penalties and play warren-ball?
i'm a bit worried about the decider. our forwards have got to be knackered after that 7 man effort, there are major injury problems in the backs, and we aren't playing smart rugby.Hard to play expansive rugby when the ball is being slowed down and we aren't cleaning out fast enough, and the ref is allowing a liberal OS line. We beat them well in game 1, the rub of the green went against us in dire conditions in Wellington. Hope for drier conditions at Eden Park and normal transmission to be resumed. Just like game 1 we need to dominate the Lions forwards to get front foot ball for the backs
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There was no way this was accidental. His head was sticking out, O'Brien lined him up with a swinging forearm. I was calling for red as soon as I saw it.
I actually think this won the game. They scored a try immediately after, we didn't have Naholo on attack, and defence was weakened.
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Test 3 will certainly be interesting from a reffing perspective. My guess is that the ref team (which is the same all the way through) get a roasting in their post match review for poor communication and inconsistency. Hansen will certainly be writing about the amount of offside play in his post game report and seeking clarification on the BBBR penalty and why Itoje was allowed to stand in the line out channel waving his arms.
If that all means that Itoje is pinged off Eden Park and the Lions have to stay onside then we will romp in.
