All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3
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@Wairau Seems unfair, doesn't it. He commits the foul which wasn't deliberate imo, but it was still a foul, and we get penalised for it by losing our player and did not even get awarded a penalty for it. It definitely won them the game .
@akan004
Well, I'm not one to moan about unfair. The guys could have won despite this and lots of other shit. All that is normal stuff they must rise above, they are the All Blacks. And they nearly did.
However, I focus on the truth (as much as I can see).
Pull up a clip of the incident.- Naholo's head is sticking clear out, the ball is hidden in his lap
- Sean O'Brien (let's call him SOB haha) braces himself and tenses his right hand. His hand actually is angled up like a karate chop.
- SOB carefully lines up the head with a half movement, then connects. When SOB connects, his whole body is behind the other Lions tackler.
- SOB releases and backs away from the tackle area.
SOB wasn't committed to a tackle and didn't go down. SOB was at all time standing up braced for swinging an arm and minimal contact in the tackle.
I would have accepted a yellow. But it deserved a red, or failing that, citing and 2 week ban.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
O'Brien cleared. No suspension.
The right result, but really the only one possible after Vunipola wasn't cited. You just simply can't deem it worse than Vunipola's actions.
Yeah. Will be interesting to see the ruling as I also can't see how it was also 5 weeks less an action than SBW.
I know you think SBWs one was deliberate but the judiciary didn't. They saw it as reckless not deliberate.
Personally I would say O'Brien's was careless rather than reckless and maybe that is the ruling. I think that means YC rather than RC. That means we have the infield guys saying nothing, The citing guy saying Red and the judiciary say yellow. No wonder players don't know how the dice will roll.@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@Bones said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
O'Brien cleared. No suspension.
The right result, but really the only one possible after Vunipola wasn't cited. You just simply can't deem it worse than Vunipola's actions.
Yeah. Will be interesting to see the ruling as I also can't see how it was also 5 weeks less an action than SBW.
I know you think SBWs one was deliberate but the judiciary didn't. They saw it as reckless not deliberate.
Personally I would say O'Brien's was careless rather than reckless and maybe that is the ruling. I think that means YC rather than RC. That means we have the infield guys saying nothing, The citing guy saying Red and the judiciary say yellow. No wonder players don't know how the dice will roll.Hah, well don't go down the judiciary doesn't agree with me bit - seems they don't agree with you either on O'Brien
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@junior will when you are been held by Farrell you are never going to make the cover tackle
@Wreck-Diver he overran his line and allowed Murray and the ball to get inside him - holding back had nothing to do with it
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@Wreck-Diver he overran his line and allowed Murray and the ball to get inside him - holding back had nothing to do with it
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@Wreck-Diver he overran his line and allowed Murray and the ball to get inside him - holding back had nothing to do with it
@junior bollocks look at the footage. Farrell holds his ankle he then over runs because he thinks he has to go wide. Its standard play in the premiership holding players past the ruck.
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https://twitter.com/Hurricanesrugby/status/882676681537748993
- Joe Moody (27)
- Codie Taylor (18)
- Owen Franks (93)
- Brodie Retallick (63)
- Samuel Whitelock (87)
- Jerome Kaino (80)
- Sam Cane (43)
- Kieran Read (99) - Captain
- Aaron Smith (61)
- Beauden Barrett (52)
- Julian Savea (53)
- Ngani Laumape (1)
- Anton Lienert-Brown (12)
- Israel Dagg (64)
- Jordie Barrett (1)
Reserves:
16. Nathan Harris (7)
17. Wyatt Crockett (61)
18. Charlie Faumuina (49)
19. Scott Barrett (7)
20. Ardie Savea (15)
21. TJ Perenara (32)
22. Aaron Cruden (49)
23. Malakai Fekitoa (23)
Lions
- Mako Vunipola
- Jamie George
- Tadhg Furlong
- Maro Itoje
- Alun Wyn Jones
- Sam Warburton (captain)
- Sean O'Brien
- Taulupe Faletau
- Conor Murray
- Johnny Sexton
- Elliot Daly
- Owen Farrell
- Jonathan Davies
- Anthony Watson
- Liam Williams.
Resserves:
16. Ken Owens
17. Jack McGrath
18. Kyle Sinckler
19. Courtney Lawes
20. CJ Stander
21. Rhys Webb
22. Ben Te'o
23. Jack Nowell
(booboos original post follows)
Flush the dunny.
ABs will be forced into more changes in the backs anyway.
Forwards should stay the same. And forwards bench unlikely to change.
Backs well ...
We'll be without Bender and SBW, probably Naholo and maybe Crotty still.
If Crotty is close to better they'll bring him in, but assuming he's not, and assuming all foyr as above are out what's your plan?
For me, given hiw Laumape went I'm starting him at 12.
Can Rieko play 14 (With Jules to 11)? I'm thinking of leaving him at 11 though and moving Izzy back to 14, with JB to 15.
Would give serious consideration to JB kicking.
Would need to find a new benchie. Does Julianuary offer enough cover from the bench? Would mean Rieko or maybe JB covering midfield.
Next in line appears to be Goodhue. Dmac could have a claim at that given both are injury replacements. Or have I forgotten someone?
As for the Lions I'd suggest lawes to start ... but am not really fussed about them. They'll be strong regardless.
Once again it will be as absolute war. If it's 15 on 15 for me is a 50:50 prospect.
It was funny watching yesterday as usually you have this feeling that the ABs just need to get some possession and they'll start to roll over the top. Just didn't get that impression yesterday. Although that may have been due to the numerical disadvantage.
Poite is likely to be weird but less weird than Garces. Of the two am pleased that he and not the other is reffing the decider. I'd prefer just about anyone else but is the lesser of the two evils.
We'll be interesting. Lions playing good rugby to come back into that game and deserve massive credit. I still think Warren G is a massive dick and hope he loses.
And hope the good guys win and send the chippy Pom Islanders home with their tails between their legs.
@booboo said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
Flush the dunny.
ABs will be forced into more changes in the backs anyway.
Forwards should stay the same. And forwards bench unlikely to change.
Backs well ...
We'll be without Bender and SBW, probably Naholo and maybe Crotty still.
If Crotty is close to better they'll bring him in, but assuming he's not, and assuming all foyr as above are out what's your plan?
For me, given hiw Laumape went I'm starting him at 12.
Can Rieko play 14 (With Jules to 11)? I'm thinking of leaving him at 11 though and moving Izzy back to 14, with JB to 15.
Would give serious consideration to JB kicking.
Would need to find a new benchie. Does Julianuary offer enough cover from the bench? Would mean Rieko or maybe JB covering midfield.
Next in line appears to be Goodhue. Dmac could have a claim at that given both are injury replacements. Or have I forgotten someone?
As for the Lions I'd suggest lawes to start ... but am not really fussed about them. They'll be strong regardless.
Once again it will be as absolute war. If it's 15 on 15 for me is a 50:50 prospect.
It was funny watching yesterday as usually you have this feeling that the ABs just need to get some possession and they'll start to roll over the top. Just didn't get that impression yesterday. Although that may have been due to the numerical disadvantage.
Poite is likely to be weird but less weird than Garces. Of the two am pleased that he and not the other is reffing the decider. I'd prefer just about anyone else but is the lesser of the two evils.
We'll be interesting. Lions playing good rugby to come back into that game and deserve massive credit. I still think Warren G is a massive dick and hope he loses.
And hope the good guys win and send the chippy Pom Islanders home with their tails between their legs.
Pom Islanders?
Jeez, how often do we have to tell you Aussies that there's more than English players in the Lions team..........?
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I'm pretty surprised O'Brien has been cited for that, it was pretty innocuous. Can't see a suspension in it.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
I'm pretty surprised O'Brien has been cited for that, it was pretty innocuous. Can't see a suspension in it.
Good call. The citing was dismissed and he's cleared for selection.
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One of the reasons the ABs never got much continuity (and zero tries) was the ridiculous number of infringements by the Lions. It felt like every time the ABs had possession in the Lions half, then there would be a penalty. And a man down and in those conditions, you have to take your penalties. And they were all kickable yet BB missed a couple of sitters. 10 kickable penalties in all - when you see a number like that, you wonder how the Lions were never on a team warning for repeated offences - especially as the offside line seemed to disappear completely at times.
@KiwiPie said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
One of the reasons the ABs never got much continuity (and zero tries) was the ridiculous number of infringements by the Lions. It felt like every time the ABs had possession in the Lions half, then there would be a penalty. And a man down and in those conditions, you have to take your penalties. And they were all kickable yet BB missed a couple of sitters. 10 kickable penalties in all - when you see a number like that, you wonder how the Lions were never on a team warning for repeated offences - especially as the offside line seemed to disappear completely at times.
They probably learned that tactic from a couple of the midweek sides they played against.......
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@junior bollocks look at the footage. Farrell holds his ankle he then over runs because he thinks he has to go wide. Its standard play in the premiership holding players past the ruck.
@Wreck-Diver said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@junior bollocks look at the footage. Farrell holds his ankle he then over runs because he thinks he has to go wide. Its standard play in the premiership holding players past the ruck.
What exactly are you trying to argue?
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@booboo said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
Flush the dunny.
ABs will be forced into more changes in the backs anyway.
Forwards should stay the same. And forwards bench unlikely to change.
Backs well ...
We'll be without Bender and SBW, probably Naholo and maybe Crotty still.
If Crotty is close to better they'll bring him in, but assuming he's not, and assuming all foyr as above are out what's your plan?
For me, given hiw Laumape went I'm starting him at 12.
Can Rieko play 14 (With Jules to 11)? I'm thinking of leaving him at 11 though and moving Izzy back to 14, with JB to 15.
Would give serious consideration to JB kicking.
Would need to find a new benchie. Does Julianuary offer enough cover from the bench? Would mean Rieko or maybe JB covering midfield.
Next in line appears to be Goodhue. Dmac could have a claim at that given both are injury replacements. Or have I forgotten someone?
As for the Lions I'd suggest lawes to start ... but am not really fussed about them. They'll be strong regardless.
Once again it will be as absolute war. If it's 15 on 15 for me is a 50:50 prospect.
It was funny watching yesterday as usually you have this feeling that the ABs just need to get some possession and they'll start to roll over the top. Just didn't get that impression yesterday. Although that may have been due to the numerical disadvantage.
Poite is likely to be weird but less weird than Garces. Of the two am pleased that he and not the other is reffing the decider. I'd prefer just about anyone else but is the lesser of the two evils.
We'll be interesting. Lions playing good rugby to come back into that game and deserve massive credit. I still think Warren G is a massive dick and hope he loses.
And hope the good guys win and send the chippy Pom Islanders home with their tails between their legs.
Pom Islanders?
Jeez, how often do we have to tell you Aussies that there's more than English players in the Lions team..........?
@Pot-Hale said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@booboo said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
Flush the dunny.
ABs will be forced into more changes in the backs anyway.
Forwards should stay the same. And forwards bench unlikely to change.
Backs well ...
We'll be without Bender and SBW, probably Naholo and maybe Crotty still.
If Crotty is close to better they'll bring him in, but assuming he's not, and assuming all foyr as above are out what's your plan?
For me, given hiw Laumape went I'm starting him at 12.
Can Rieko play 14 (With Jules to 11)? I'm thinking of leaving him at 11 though and moving Izzy back to 14, with JB to 15.
Would give serious consideration to JB kicking.
Would need to find a new benchie. Does Julianuary offer enough cover from the bench? Would mean Rieko or maybe JB covering midfield.
Next in line appears to be Goodhue. Dmac could have a claim at that given both are injury replacements. Or have I forgotten someone?
As for the Lions I'd suggest lawes to start ... but am not really fussed about them. They'll be strong regardless.
Once again it will be as absolute war. If it's 15 on 15 for me is a 50:50 prospect.
It was funny watching yesterday as usually you have this feeling that the ABs just need to get some possession and they'll start to roll over the top. Just didn't get that impression yesterday. Although that may have been due to the numerical disadvantage.
Poite is likely to be weird but less weird than Garces. Of the two am pleased that he and not the other is reffing the decider. I'd prefer just about anyone else but is the lesser of the two evils.
We'll be interesting. Lions playing good rugby to come back into that game and deserve massive credit. I still think Warren G is a massive dick and hope he loses.
And hope the good guys win and send the chippy Pom Islanders home with their tails between their legs.
Pom Islanders?
Jeez, how often do we have to tell you Aussies that there's more than English players in the Lions team..........?
You poms all look the same to us.
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@Wreck-Diver said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@junior bollocks look at the footage. Farrell holds his ankle he then over runs because he thinks he has to go wide. Its standard play in the premiership holding players past the ruck.
What exactly are you trying to argue?
@Bones Farrell delays TJP coming to his left to fill the hole. when he gets free he over chases to the left. which allows murray to step inside. Its pretty simple. no hold no hole got it.
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@Bones Farrell delays TJP coming to his left to fill the hole. when he gets free he over chases to the left. which allows murray to step inside. Its pretty simple. no hold no hole got it.
@Wreck-Diver said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@Bones Farrell delays TJP coming to his left to fill the hole. when he gets free he over chases to the left. which allows murray to step inside. Its pretty simple. no hold no hole got it.
That makes no sense at all - TJP was going left whatever, he left the hole - or did Farrell also put his hand over TJP's eyes?
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@Bones Farrell delays TJP coming to his left to fill the hole. when he gets free he over chases to the left. which allows murray to step inside. Its pretty simple. no hold no hole got it.
@Wreck-Diver said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@Bones Farrell delays TJP coming to his left to fill the hole. when he gets free he over chases to the left. which allows murray to step inside. Its pretty simple. no hold no hole got it.
Farrell cheated (likely along with approximately 35 other guys on the day). It had no bearing on Perenera going wide. He was covering the perceived threat outside.
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@Wreck-Diver said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@Bones Farrell delays TJP coming to his left to fill the hole. when he gets free he over chases to the left. which allows murray to step inside. Its pretty simple. no hold no hole got it.
That makes no sense at all - TJP was going left whatever, he left the hole - or did Farrell also put his hand over TJP's eyes?
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@Wreck-Diver said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@Bones Farrell delays TJP coming to his left to fill the hole. when he gets free he over chases to the left. which allows murray to step inside. Its pretty simple. no hold no hole got it.
Farrell cheated (likely along with approximately 35 other guys on the day). It had no bearing on Perenera going wide. He was covering the perceived threat outside.
@Catogrande well if he wasn't held in the first place he doesn't go that extra step and doesn't get beaten on the inside. but hay you have your opinion I have mine.
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@Catogrande well if he wasn't held in the first place he doesn't go that extra step and doesn't get beaten on the inside. but hay you have your opinion I have mine.
@Wreck-Diver So holding him back makes him go further? I could accept that if he had to tear himself away and his momentum took him wider but that was not the case.
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@Bones so a player delaying another going to his left doesn't make him think he has to go hard and makes it easier to get stepped.
@Wreck-Diver No. He has eyes.
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@Wreck-Diver said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@Bones Farrell delays TJP coming to his left to fill the hole. when he gets free he over chases to the left. which allows murray to step inside. Its pretty simple. no hold no hole got it.
Farrell cheated (likely along with approximately 35 other guys on the day). It had no bearing on Perenera going wide. He was covering the perceived threat outside.
@Catogrande said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@Wreck-Diver said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@Bones Farrell delays TJP coming to his left to fill the hole. when he gets free he over chases to the left. which allows murray to step inside. Its pretty simple. no hold no hole got it.
Farrell cheated (likely along with approximately 35 other guys on the day). It had no bearing on Perenera going wide. He was covering the perceived threat outside.
Farrell or Sexton should have been penalised there, take your pick. A 7 point non-decision from a ref who could easily have checked and didn't. I did wonder at the time whether part of the reason for that was that he was pissed off with TJP's histrionics, which is a major reason TJP should learn a bit of self control.
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@Catogrande said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@Wreck-Diver said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@Bones Farrell delays TJP coming to his left to fill the hole. when he gets free he over chases to the left. which allows murray to step inside. Its pretty simple. no hold no hole got it.
Farrell cheated (likely along with approximately 35 other guys on the day). It had no bearing on Perenera going wide. He was covering the perceived threat outside.
Farrell or Sexton should have been penalised there, take your pick. A 7 point non-decision from a ref who could easily have checked and didn't. I did wonder at the time whether part of the reason for that was that he was pissed off with TJP's histrionics, which is a major reason TJP should learn a bit of self control.
@JC Ach mate. I would't argue with the penalty thing. Farrell was holding on and Sexton was in an offside position. Both guilty but not picked up. However that is not why Perenera went wide. Which was the issue being discussed. Shitty stuff like that goes on all over the place but at this level it should not be an excuse if it doesn't materially affect what occurs. They're professionals after all.
