All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3
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I'm 2 days late reading this thread so I'll only make a few comments.
I was high up in the stands in the corner where Jordie scored so had a good view of the other chances at the same end of the ground. Both BB and Laumape could have also scored tries as they were in gaps but fumbled under some defensive pressure. But no excuses for Savea - that was a definite try if he had caught the bloody ball. As many have said, if we had taken 1 or 2 of those chances the ABs would be well ahead at HT and in control of the game, as the Lions were never going to score multiple tries.
The thing I was most pissed off about was that the officials let the Lions slow the game down all the time as not all the injuries seemed to be genuine. It was like watching a RL game when the support staff run onto the field at every opportunity. Read should have spoken to Poite about this too.
Now for something about the Lions tour in general. I picked my father up from the airport earlier in the day as he had been working in Europe and was going to the game with me. He travelled back to NZ via London and was sitting next to a guy who was flying into Auckland to attend the 3rd test and flying back to the UK the following day - that's dedication. And at the test there was a South African guy (wearing his Bok colours) next to me who also flew to NZ especially for the game. That is what makes these tours unique so long may they continue.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
The thing I was most pissed off about was that the officials let the Lions slow the game down all the time as not all the injuries seemed to be genuine. It was like watching a RL game when the support staff run onto the field at every opportunity. Read should have spoken to Poite about this too.
I noticed Poite was doing his best to move the Lions forwards to the lineout when they would go into a huddle - but unless he takes action and awards a free kick against them or whatever, then they paid very little attention. Certainly the second half was very much stop start which I'm sure was deliberate as the first half was played way too fast for the Lions pack - you could see it on their faces after 20 minutes that they were just hanging on. And the tactic definitely worked, the second half was totally different.
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I hate halfbacks passing into a player to milk a penalty, IMO is is against the spirit of the game given most of the time they don't need to, I don't recall Smiths one alluded to above (but know he does it too) but I was fuming at Murray's one, was pathetic (as are many like that)
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
I hate halfbacks passing into a player to milk a penalty, IMO is is against the spirit of the game given most of the time they don't need to, I don't recall Smiths one alluded to above (but know he does it too) but I was fuming at Murray's one, was pathetic (as are many like that)
I can't say for sure but I reckon a ref like Owens wouldn't have given that - Webb had clear passage to clear the ball and went out of his way to be impeded.
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Funny, I thought ALB was outstanding over all. Especially that first test
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the ref issue is an interesting one, if you criticise the ref you are a whinger and even when they have a howler you cant call them on it, yet we can blast players and coaches for thier errors.
I find this one strange as well. I think we as fans ( including Mex) are fully within our rights to blast the ref and say he cost us the series. I think the players and coaches should look at themselves and figure out how to take the ref out the game and that's exactly what they are doing. Not like the ABs were terrible, Poite and SBW hurt them bad. I thought by 3rd test they figured out how to beat rush defense but execution was poor but easily fixable. The result is what is but I think things like blaming Hansen for substituting Half back which the ABs have done for at least 13years is just silly.
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Glass half empty - the series showed how reliant we are on certain key players, those players are getting older and a couple of forward injuries would expose our lack of depth. Winning easily in Super rugby isn't producing a style that will work against the top NH teams or players that are used to having to grind it out.
Glass half full - what a great chance to review progress half-way between World Cups, the Lions gave us a great challenge and never buckled, we were made to work for every point. A few injuries has forced new players into the system, and they will really benefit in 2 years time for having had this baptism of fire.
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Glass half empty - the series showed how reliant we are on certain key players, those players are getting older and a couple of forward injuries would expose our lack of depth. Winning easily in Super rugby isn't producing a style that will work against the top NH teams or players that are used to having to grind it out.
Glass half full - what a great chance to review progress half-way between World Cups, the Lions gave us a great challenge and never buckled, we were made to work for every point. A few injuries has forced new players into the system, and they will really benefit in 2 years time for having had this baptism of fire.
@KiwiPie said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
Glass half empty - the series showed how reliant we are on certain key players, those players are getting older and a couple of forward injuries would expose our lack of depth.
You could say the same about the Lions. There was a massive step down from the test side to the dirt trackers.
For us, I'm pretty relaxed. Our tight forwards really stood up: arguably won the forward battle.
Codie Taylor and Joe Moody were a long way away two years ago. None of them are older than 29 (Taylor), and still have a few years in the legs. All will be better for that experience.Again - we lost some key experience out there, fronted against the cream of the NH and failed to win 3-0 by some 'interesting' refereeing decisions and not taking some chances we would have previously. Give them more time in camp and I'm comfortable we'll keep stepping up.
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I find this one strange as well. I think we as fans ( including Mex) are fully within our rights to blast the ref and say he cost us the series. I think the players and coaches should look at themselves and figure out how to take the ref out the game and that's exactly what they are doing. Not like the ABs were terrible, Poite and SBW hurt them bad. I thought by 3rd test they figured out how to beat rush defense but execution was poor but easily fixable. The result is what is but I think things like blaming Hansen for substituting Half back which the ABs have done for at least 13years is just silly.
@DMX said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
I find this one strange as well. I think we as fans ( including Mex) are fully within our rights to blast the ref and say he cost us the series. I think the players and coaches should look at themselves and figure out how to take the ref out the game and that's exactly what they are doing. Not like the ABs were terrible, Poite and SBW hurt them bad. I thought by 3rd test they figured out how to beat rush defense but execution was poor but easily fixable. The result is what is but I think things like blaming Hansen for substituting Half back which the ABs have done for at least 13years is just silly.
I'm in the "ref didn't cost us the game camp" but in no way I'm of the opinion that criticism of his 78th min decisions should be shut down. That was the worst refereeing moment I can remember.
I don't think he 'cost us the game' because I only give Beauden a 60% chance of slotting that the way he was kicking. Where as I give Julian as 100% costing us a try and I think Beauden has already blown a 95% gettable kick. Then add in the cumulative 50%ers that were blown periodically through the match.
Up until 78 mins I thought Poite was good.
But that decision (and process) was disgraceful.
I now really doubt his moral fibre. He made a correct decision in real time, it was technically harsh on the guilty party but correct. He then allowed himself to go to the TMO to check foul play so that his already made decision could be taken away from his responsibility if possible, it couldn't, but then he allowed Garces to change his mind (incorrectly). He tried really, really, really hard to not have his decision be the 'series-deciding decision'. Very weak.
I would think that would set alarm bells off in WR Refereeing HQ. This wasn't a fast real time mistake, it was a failure of courage.
However I do not currently have faith in the Referring HQ. Their treatment of Joubert was a disgrace to the sport when they hung him out to dry after he made a brave but incorrect decision in the RWC in very similar circumstances.
To be contradictory, I do find the analysising of every single refereeing decision in a game on social media etc to be pointless. It's a quick game with decisions made in real time, fans need to just get on with it. Where I think this is bad is that it was done slowly, looking for every opportunity to back out of a decision.
I'm not actually salty about the series result. Getting the penalty and Beauden flukeing it over may have been the worst result for me, if it just papers over the cracks of our obvious weakness. But I'm soft as Rocky Rockvottom says (I think) after our back to back world cups.
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I'm 2 days late reading this thread so I'll only make a few comments.
I was high up in the stands in the corner where Jordie scored so had a good view of the other chances at the same end of the ground. Both BB and Laumape could have also scored tries as they were in gaps but fumbled under some defensive pressure. But no excuses for Savea - that was a definite try if he had caught the bloody ball. As many have said, if we had taken 1 or 2 of those chances the ABs would be well ahead at HT and in control of the game, as the Lions were never going to score multiple tries.
The thing I was most pissed off about was that the officials let the Lions slow the game down all the time as not all the injuries seemed to be genuine. It was like watching a RL game when the support staff run onto the field at every opportunity. Read should have spoken to Poite about this too.
Now for something about the Lions tour in general. I picked my father up from the airport earlier in the day as he had been working in Europe and was going to the game with me. He travelled back to NZ via London and was sitting next to a guy who was flying into Auckland to attend the 3rd test and flying back to the UK the following day - that's dedication. And at the test there was a South African guy (wearing his Bok colours) next to me who also flew to NZ especially for the game. That is what makes these tours unique so long may they continue.
@Bovidae Pretty much saved me posting.
I too was at the game and it was magnificent sporting occasion. My brother had some sports ears and it was very obvious that while Poite was telling the Lions what they should do there were no repercussions when they totally ignored him.
Everyone agrees we dominated the first half. Gatland clearly got his troops together and said you've played shit - they're bullying you but your still in this and can steal it. Stop trying to play the AB's at their game and slow the game down and wait for the penalties to come. The AB's are over eager and the mistakes will come.
and come they did - right from the kick off. That penalty to get them to within three - you could see the belief grow in the Lions. Then AB's butchered another try and Kaino was (rightly IMO) binned and we lost the plot a bit.Meanwhile Roundtree? was on the field every stoppage coaching the players chipping away at the ref - it was fucking annoying but quite effective. He, Gatland and Itoje have faces that just cry out to be slapped.
You could see the Lions stealing it becoming more real from about 20 minutes out so the end result was no real surprise - albeit deeply unsatisfying.
As for the ground itself. Monumental experience Worth every cent all 50,000 of them. I've read a bit about how the Lions fans out-passioned our support and we have to learn from them. Well while that is true I think by the 3rd test we Kiwi's had learned and certainly in my part of the ground the Lions were no more vocal than the locals. Every time a Lions chant went up or we felt the AB's needed our support the crowd were up to it. It took many cleansing ales and until about 3am before I got my voice back.
So while it feels like a series lost, we have an opportunity to learn from this. We're not as good as we thought we were, but we're still pretty good and unlike some I think Hansen will take a lot out of this and we will be all the better for it come Japan 2019.
Great night, great test shit result
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@Bovidae Pretty much saved me posting.
I too was at the game and it was magnificent sporting occasion. My brother had some sports ears and it was very obvious that while Poite was telling the Lions what they should do there were no repercussions when they totally ignored him.
Everyone agrees we dominated the first half. Gatland clearly got his troops together and said you've played shit - they're bullying you but your still in this and can steal it. Stop trying to play the AB's at their game and slow the game down and wait for the penalties to come. The AB's are over eager and the mistakes will come.
and come they did - right from the kick off. That penalty to get them to within three - you could see the belief grow in the Lions. Then AB's butchered another try and Kaino was (rightly IMO) binned and we lost the plot a bit.Meanwhile Roundtree? was on the field every stoppage coaching the players chipping away at the ref - it was fucking annoying but quite effective. He, Gatland and Itoje have faces that just cry out to be slapped.
You could see the Lions stealing it becoming more real from about 20 minutes out so the end result was no real surprise - albeit deeply unsatisfying.
As for the ground itself. Monumental experience Worth every cent all 50,000 of them. I've read a bit about how the Lions fans out-passioned our support and we have to learn from them. Well while that is true I think by the 3rd test we Kiwi's had learned and certainly in my part of the ground the Lions were no more vocal than the locals. Every time a Lions chant went up or we felt the AB's needed our support the crowd were up to it. It took many cleansing ales and until about 3am before I got my voice back.
So while it feels like a series lost, we have an opportunity to learn from this. We're not as good as we thought we were, but we're still pretty good and unlike some I think Hansen will take a lot out of this and we will be all the better for it come Japan 2019.
Great night, great test shit result
@dogmeat I use Sports Ears at the game too, specifically to listen to the ref/ARs/TMO. They are great to hear the communication between the officials and ref with the players. I noted that Poite and Garces spoke between themselves in French a few times which should be a no-no. The most obvious example was when Garces obviously changed Poite's mind at the end, because all Poite did was listen.
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I realise my post above might seem a bit churlish to Lions supporters.
Full credit it was a game of two halves (and we should have won both of them!
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Seriously though everything has already been said. the lions team definitely atoned for their embarrassments on and off the field in 2005 and while I think they were a little lucky to draw the series they were very effective in every aspect of their play and deserve everyone's admiration. The fact that I got over the "loss" pretty quicky whereas I normally can't even drink after the AB's goes down says a lot.Meanwhile their fans were as always magnificent
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Quelle surprise; Sinckler arrested in Auckland. Seems to be an angry young man.
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Quelle surprise; Sinckler arrested in Auckland. Seems to be an angry young man.
@antipodean at least he wasn't 'mugged'
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The highest rated rugby game on Fox Sports Australia this season was All Blacks vs Lions test 3 - over 200,000 viewers
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
The highest rated rugby game on Fox Sports Australia this season was All Blacks vs Lions test 3 - over 200,000 viewers
I wonder how many of those are Australian born? Probably not many
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The other thing I forgot to mention on Poite - how many fucking times do you hear him coaching the lions? "Back, back" was on repeat throughout the match, heard an extraordinary amount of times with no follow up action - apart from the odd couple of times where he actually physically coached them (e.g. the one where he had to run into the ruck and make the lions player bind so he wasn't offside while Murray kicked).
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The other thing I forgot to mention on Poite - how many fucking times do you hear him coaching the lions? "Back, back" was on repeat throughout the match, heard an extraordinary amount of times with no follow up action - apart from the odd couple of times where he actually physically coached them (e.g. the one where he had to run into the ruck and make the lions player bind so he wasn't offside while Murray kicked).
@Bones Strange turnaround given he was uninterested in coaching England:
"I'm the referee, not the coach, you have to find a solution," after flanker James Haskell asked for clarification.
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This game really appears to have been one massive cockup by match officials:
http://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/16057/10943668/officials-wrong-to-allow-lions-star-alun-wyn-jones-back-on-after-hia -
Jonathan Davies deservedly named Man of the Series for the Lions.
And after the dust has settled and thoughts turn to pre-season training and Autumn Internationals, were the omitted and injured missed?
It was unfortunate that Hogg was injured out of the series, but to be fair he wasn't playing well prior to his departure. Would Brown have offered anything better than Williams? I don't think so.
Would the Gray brothers and Launchbury have made the Test side? Maybe Launchbury.
When the Lions went away from 'Warrenball' to 'Eddieball' I think we would have been better served having the original - Ford - not the imitation - Sexton.
And what we really missed was an out and out speedster like Christian Wade or Johnnie May who could have finished some of the chances we created.
But overall the squad selection seems to have been close to spot on.
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This game really appears to have been one massive cockup by match officials:
http://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/16057/10943668/officials-wrong-to-allow-lions-star-alun-wyn-jones-back-on-after-hia@antipodean said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
This game really appears to have been one massive cockup by match officials:
http://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/16057/10943668/officials-wrong-to-allow-lions-star-alun-wyn-jones-back-on-after-hiaWas really uncomfortable with AWJ coming back on. Kind of Lonergan shuffle uncomfortable.
Add that to the two head knocks Lawes suffered and the Lions gave the impression (this may be unfair) that they were somewhat old skool with regard to concussion.
