All Blacks v Pumas
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Pumas:
@SammyC said in All Blacks v Pumas:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Pumas:
@SammyC said in All Blacks v Pumas:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Pumas:
Seems to me "control a game" means kicking goals. Never seems to be an issue when those kicks are going over.
It doesn't mean that at all.
Well feel free to elaborate...
The 10 is the principle playmaker in the team.. he "controls" or manages the game through his options taken when he gets the ball.
Are poor options or dropped ball by those outside him then his fault?
Nope, that's an argument for someone else...
I'm a supporter of Barrett and want him to remain at 10. I was questioning your definiton of controlling the game
@SammyC said in All Blacks v Pumas:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Pumas:
@SammyC said in All Blacks v Pumas:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Pumas:
@SammyC said in All Blacks v Pumas:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Pumas:
Seems to me "control a game" means kicking goals. Never seems to be an issue when those kicks are going over.
It doesn't mean that at all.
Well feel free to elaborate...
The 10 is the principle playmaker in the team.. he "controls" or manages the game through his options taken when he gets the ball.
Are poor options or dropped ball by those outside him then his fault?
Nope, that's an argument for someone else...
I'm a supporter of Barrett and want him to remain at 10. I was questioning your definiton of controlling the game
That's not my definition. Not in the slightest. It just seems to be what people say when goal kicks are missed rather than anything different actually happening in general play.
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I think we are going through an interesting phase ,
Still a bloody good side , so its not doom and gloom by any means ,
But since the game in chicago , there has been a bit of vulnerability about us that hasnt been there for some time ,
I believe the McCaw led side with Nonu and Smith in the midfield would have put the lions away 3-0
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I think we are going through an interesting phase ,
Still a bloody good side , so its not doom and gloom by any means ,
But since the game in chicago , there has been a bit of vulnerability about us that hasnt been there for some time ,
I believe the McCaw led side with Nonu and Smith in the midfield would have put the lions away 3-0
@kiwiinmelb and Carter at 10
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Don't forget Woody at 1 for the teabags
I'm not reading too much into the Lions results. Hell this team should have beaten them 3-0.
Lost 2nd test because ref gave a technical penalty
Drew 3rd test because ref didn't give a technical penalty
What with injuries, unavailabilities etc it was simply a case of the starts aligning for the Lions
I'm more concerned that last year was the exception and we are now realizing how hard it is to replace legends and as has been said the standard of the Rugby Championship has been poor. Apart from Wales in Dunedin Italy and Lions 1 all of our games against NH opposition since 2015 have been arm wrestles. Not so against the Sthn nations.
All of the various defections means our bench is not the force it was but the thing is we are still winning - in the main. Not bad for a period of rebuilding. Still the frisson of uncertainty is back ahead of almost every test we play now which on balance is a good thing - as long as we ultimately prevail!
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I'm quite liking the phase we are going through right now. We've had a sustained period of success and stability with the likes of McCaw, Woody, Carter, Nonu and Smith part of the furniture for so long.
Now a new crop of leaders and experienced players have to take that next step that those players before them did - Read, Whitleock, Franks, Retallick, Dagg, Smiths x2.
The younger and less experienced players will make errors as has happened in the past. And fans will criticise and 'get stuck into them'. There's nothing new there, that has been going on for eons.
We have a number of unanswered questions right now that makes for interesting times ahead.
- what's the right bench makeup?
- who's the next best fullback? (We've had two guys that could start on any test team for a number of years)
- how to get Barrett to be more consistent goalkicker?
- who's the next 6 and back up 8?
- what's the best midfield?
- Is the next crop of locks up to it?
- why aren't there more Cantabs?
I think it's going to be a bumpy ride with more nervous moments ahead, but nothing that we haven't seen before. For one it makes for better discussion on here!
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I'm quite liking the phase we are going through right now. We've had a sustained period of success and stability with the likes of McCaw, Woody, Carter, Nonu and Smith part of the furniture for so long.
Now a new crop of leaders and experienced players have to take that next step that those players before them did - Read, Whitleock, Franks, Retallick, Dagg, Smiths x2.
The younger and less experienced players will make errors as has happened in the past. And fans will criticise and 'get stuck into them'. There's nothing new there, that has been going on for eons.
We have a number of unanswered questions right now that makes for interesting times ahead.
- what's the right bench makeup?
- who's the next best fullback? (We've had two guys that could start on any test team for a number of years)
- how to get Barrett to be more consistent goalkicker?
- who's the next 6 and back up 8?
- what's the best midfield?
- Is the next crop of locks up to it?
- why aren't there more Cantabs?
I think it's going to be a bumpy ride with more nervous moments ahead, but nothing that we haven't seen before. For one it makes for better discussion on here!
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Pumas:
- why aren't there more Cantabs?
It's a conspiracy
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Spoiler Text
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I'm quite liking the phase we are going through right now. We've had a sustained period of success and stability with the likes of McCaw, Woody, Carter, Nonu and Smith part of the furniture for so long.
Now a new crop of leaders and experienced players have to take that next step that those players before them did - Read, Whitleock, Franks, Retallick, Dagg, Smiths x2.
The younger and less experienced players will make errors as has happened in the past. And fans will criticise and 'get stuck into them'. There's nothing new there, that has been going on for eons.
We have a number of unanswered questions right now that makes for interesting times ahead.
- what's the right bench makeup?
- who's the next best fullback? (We've had two guys that could start on any test team for a number of years)
- how to get Barrett to be more consistent goalkicker?
- who's the next 6 and back up 8?
- what's the best midfield?
- Is the next crop of locks up to it?
- why aren't there more Cantabs?
I think it's going to be a bumpy ride with more nervous moments ahead, but nothing that we haven't seen before. For one it makes for better discussion on here!
@ACT-Crusader A bit of adversity is good for the group. Hopefully we'll iron it out for Tokyo
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Must say that Reason article spurred scores of comments from Stuff readers.
Quite a lot of rather unreasoned guff, but I do agree that BB's game management leaves something to be desired. Strike weapon from 10, though. Witness the planned move from scrum against Ireland in Dublin.
I think the wise men need to give Lima some starts.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Pumas:
@SammyC said in All Blacks v Pumas:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Pumas:
Seems to me "control a game" means kicking goals. Never seems to be an issue when those kicks are going over.
It doesn't mean that at all.
Well feel free to elaborate...
The 10 is the principle playmaker in the team.. he "controls" or manages the game through his options taken when he gets the ball.
@SammyC said in All Blacks v Pumas:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Pumas:
@SammyC said in All Blacks v Pumas:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Pumas:
Seems to me "control a game" means kicking goals. Never seems to be an issue when those kicks are going over.
It doesn't mean that at all.
Well feel free to elaborate...
The 10 is the principle playmaker in the team.. he "controls" or manages the game through his options taken when he gets the ball.
More importantly the play depends hugely on his 'time on the ball'. The very best 10s, like the best cricket batsmen, seem to have oodles of time on the ball. DC was a classic example. Weepu (despite his other failings) was another.
Some 10s try to manufacture this time by standing deeper but that has obvious flow on effects to the attacking abilities of the backline.
Cruden never had great time on the ball either but his counter was to do the opposite to standing deep. He would force the issue by moving forward and passing under pressure. He did it so well it opened up possibilities for players to get halfway through defensive lines. As Reason alludes to, SBW meshed much better with Cruden because his skills are all about being in contact and traffic.
BB is a devastating instinctive player and can take advantage of errors but he doesn't yet have the game that makes a number of very good deliberate decisions in a row to build pressure.
That's what Lima did when he came on. He picked out the right runner a number of times in a row which drew in numbers from the back to fill holes then exploited the space created at the back. Do that a couple of times and an outside back will be in two minds on whether to stay back or come forward which creates opportunities. -
BB, DMac, Ioane's 1 & 2, Fifita, ALB, NMS are part of the new breed of AB whose star may shine very brightly for 1, 2 or even 3 seasons before the next crop are welcomed in. It's just how it is these days. ABs who survived the knocks to plough on through to 3 RWC cups (the likes of GOAT, Nonu, Smith) those days are well and truly gone. We will never see the likes of a Colin Meads-endurance type figure again. Some guys - like Fekitoa, may want the experience of being an AB, but will re-assess and cut their ties when the $$$ comes a-knocking. We may as well accept it, it;s part of life in general - plus the way the game is played today, season / career ending injuries are a part of the wider rugby culture. We've seen it time and again.
Our core experienced group - BFA, Coles, Whitelock, BBBR, Cane, A Smith, Read, Franks, Moody will all need to be managed carefully through to Japan 2019, so these "new" recruits the brains trust are currently blooding and running with are all grist to the mill as far as I'm concerned. Some may work out - some may not, but I'd rather be in the camp that was prepared to give someone a go rather than lose out altogether. -
@SammyC said in All Blacks v Pumas:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Pumas:
@SammyC said in All Blacks v Pumas:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Pumas:
Seems to me "control a game" means kicking goals. Never seems to be an issue when those kicks are going over.
It doesn't mean that at all.
Well feel free to elaborate...
The 10 is the principle playmaker in the team.. he "controls" or manages the game through his options taken when he gets the ball.
More importantly the play depends hugely on his 'time on the ball'. The very best 10s, like the best cricket batsmen, seem to have oodles of time on the ball. DC was a classic example. Weepu (despite his other failings) was another.
Some 10s try to manufacture this time by standing deeper but that has obvious flow on effects to the attacking abilities of the backline.
Cruden never had great time on the ball either but his counter was to do the opposite to standing deep. He would force the issue by moving forward and passing under pressure. He did it so well it opened up possibilities for players to get halfway through defensive lines. As Reason alludes to, SBW meshed much better with Cruden because his skills are all about being in contact and traffic.
BB is a devastating instinctive player and can take advantage of errors but he doesn't yet have the game that makes a number of very good deliberate decisions in a row to build pressure.
That's what Lima did when he came on. He picked out the right runner a number of times in a row which drew in numbers from the back to fill holes then exploited the space created at the back. Do that a couple of times and an outside back will be in two minds on whether to stay back or come forward which creates opportunities.@Crucial It can help playing against a side that's tiring. The issue with the team has not been an inability to create pressure, it's been execution. This has no doubt been magnified by the merry-go-round in the centres due to injury.
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I think by 2019WC we will be looking far more stable ,
like has been mentioned , the leaders now will have 2 more years of maturity ,
the youth and talent will be there , it always is
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Pumas:
the leaders now will have 2 more years of maturity ,
Or they'll be two more years past their best ...
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I'm fine with Read as skipper. He suffers by comparison to previous who may well be our greatest ever, and imo McCaw did it with benefit of better leadership class as deputies - Thorn, Carter, Read, Conrad, Nonu, Kev, Kaino, etc. they were battle-hardened veterans.
Coles, Whitelock, Brodie, they'll be everybit as good but might need a year to get there (as leaders; not players). And it could be that a little adversity is what will help galvanize that leadership; so, much as I'd hate to see ABs lose to Boks this year, this would probably be as good a time as any for the learning curve.
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I'm fine with Read as skipper. He suffers by comparison to previous who may well be our greatest ever, and imo McCaw did it with benefit of better leadership class as deputies - Thorn, Carter, Read, Conrad, Nonu, Kev, Kaino, etc. they were battle-hardened veterans.
Coles, Whitelock, Brodie, they'll be everybit as good but might need a year to get there (as leaders; not players). And it could be that a little adversity is what will help galvanize that leadership; so, much as I'd hate to see ABs lose to Boks this year, this would probably be as good a time as any for the learning curve.
@Salacious-Crumb said in All Blacks v Pumas:
.And it could be that a little adversity is what will help galvanize that leadership; so, much as I'd hate to see ABs lose to Boks this year, this would probably be as good a time as any for the learning curve.
We've already experienced the "loss we had to have" this year. Don't need another one IMO
I will never ever accept a loss to Boks. If we do lose I will not hesitate to ring out accusations of food poisoning and gold Rolex's....
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a loss and a draw is sufficient to learn from in a year thank you very much!
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There's a lot of shitty performances since the last rugby championship
Match Score Date Venue NZL v ARG 39-22 Sat, 09 Sep 2017 New Plymouth NZL v AUS 35-29 Sat, 26 Aug 2017 Otago Stadium, Dunedin NZL v AUS 54-34 Sat, 19 Aug 2017 Stadium Australia, Sydney NZL v LIO 15-15 Sat, 08 Jul 2017 Eden Park, Auckland NZL v LIO 21-24 Sat, 01 Jul 2017 Westpac Trust, Wellington NZL v LIO 30-15 Sat, 24 Jun 2017 Eden Park, Auckland NZL v SAM 78-0 Fri, 16 Jun 2017 Eden Park, Auckland NZL v FRA 24-19 Sat, 26 Nov 2016 Stade de France, Paris NZL v IRE 21-9 Sat, 19 Nov 2016 Lansdowne Rd, Dublin NZL v ITA 68-10 Sat, 12 Nov 2016 Olympic Stadium, Rome NZL v IRE 29-40 Sat, 05 Nov 2016 Chicago -
There's a lot of shitty performances since the last rugby championship
Match Score Date Venue NZL v ARG 39-22 Sat, 09 Sep 2017 New Plymouth NZL v AUS 35-29 Sat, 26 Aug 2017 Otago Stadium, Dunedin NZL v AUS 54-34 Sat, 19 Aug 2017 Stadium Australia, Sydney NZL v LIO 15-15 Sat, 08 Jul 2017 Eden Park, Auckland NZL v LIO 21-24 Sat, 01 Jul 2017 Westpac Trust, Wellington NZL v LIO 30-15 Sat, 24 Jun 2017 Eden Park, Auckland NZL v SAM 78-0 Fri, 16 Jun 2017 Eden Park, Auckland NZL v FRA 24-19 Sat, 26 Nov 2016 Stade de France, Paris NZL v IRE 21-9 Sat, 19 Nov 2016 Lansdowne Rd, Dublin NZL v ITA 68-10 Sat, 12 Nov 2016 Olympic Stadium, Rome NZL v IRE 29-40 Sat, 05 Nov 2016 Chicago
