Exodus 2017
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I had nothing to do at work yesterday, for your benefit I went through Wikipedia to work out how many nz players are currently earning their way in the foreign leagues.
Total is 224.
France Top 14: 51
English Premiership; 39
Pro 12: 32
French D2: 39 (but 3 of the teams had no data)
Japan Top League (& Sunwolves): 48
English Championship: 8 ( I only counted from Leeds & Bristol, the rest aren't really pro)
Super Rugby (Aus and SAF teams): 7Now my counting system is what I consider NZ 'products'. So plenty are under other nations flags.
So I include guys like ; Payne, Joe Tekori, Atonio, Aki, Blair Cowan, Dylan Hartley, Tameifuna, Sa'u, even Aussie born Sekope Kepu, etc ,
But I exclude those I consider NZ polished, rather than NZ Products (eg any scholarship guys whether they played for NZ, the Islands, or double poaches ) e.g. David Smith, Fekitoa, Nili Latu, Halai , Nathan Hughes, Tongan Thor, Henry Speight. Alapati Leiua, Etc
I've heard the Saffa lament about "300 overseas players" a bit recently. So wanted to get a comparison to see how much bigger their problem is (although I think their real problem is quality - they're not retaining the Dan Carter, Read, Nonu level player for a 10 year stretch like NZ has been able to)
Also, What I was interested in. Is if NZ rugby was an isolated bubble with no outside pressures, or inwards flows (such as AFL). How many pro players are out there on top of the 5 SR teams we currently have plus the impossible to quantify NPC level players who still have local dreams and haven't buggered off yet.
However. On the quality side - There were 10 guys in the Japanese league, and 17 in the French D2 I'd never heard of, with no wiki profile, but they had NZ flags as their nationality. Also I don't think there would be a place for 37 year old outside backs like Bryce Robins etc in NZ pro rugby, as well as some of the ancient but formerly well known players in France and England- e.g. A Jamie MacIntosh, Census Johnston etc who I assume are squad role players these days required for long grinding seasons.
I did a study too, for all worldwide pro clubs/provinces/franchises and got 253 kiwis and 221 South Africans. Only 113 Australians, but that is why their issue in fielding 5 strong Super rugby squads nonetheless. What is hugely worrying though is 128 Tongans, 123 Fijians and 96 Samoans. No wonder the depth in super rugby is being diluted heavily. That is a huge number overall - and reaches 1000 players if you add 45 Argentinians, 9 Namibians, 4 Japanese and 8 other Pacific Islanders. That is a huge number of players choosing to play 'overseas'.
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@arhs said in Exodus 2017:
What is hugely worrying though is 128 Tongans, 123 Fijians and 96 Samoans
Hi.
I don't agree with this part though.I don't think it's hugely worrying. It's good that Tier 2 players get contracts in the pro leagues.
Even if I'm a bit contemptuous of the Top14's ability to improve players and not turn them to either lard or immobile balls of roids.
There's only 5 fully pro teams in NZ for example, with limits on non-NZ qualified players. Similar with all the SH unions with pro teams.
There are worries ( project players, clubs comps during int windows, the lax eligibility laws), but this area of the world simply produces too many players than it can pay.
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@arhs said in Exodus 2017:
What is hugely worrying though is 128 Tongans, 123 Fijians and 96 Samoans
Hi.
I don't agree with this part though.I don't think it's hugely worrying. It's good that Tier 2 players get contracts in the pro leagues.
Even if I'm a bit contemptuous of the Top14's ability to improve players and not turn them to either lard or immobile balls of roids.
There's only 5 fully pro teams in NZ for example, with limits on non-NZ qualified players. Similar with all the SH unions with pro teams.
There are worries ( project players, clubs comps during int windows, the lax eligibility laws), but this area of the world simply produces too many players than it can pay.
The worry is the number of Islanders lost to their national side, and also to the visibility of Super Rugby. IMHO Super Rugby is the best of Southern Hemisphere rugby and needs more of a Pacific Island flavour to rejuvenate interest. I think it would be great for Pacific rugby if it were financially viable for more of the top players to stay down under for at least a few prime years - and hopefully develop combinations that transfer through to national teams. Samoa in particular seems to be declining on the international scene, and the Tongan side has constantly changing selections.
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The worry is the number of Islanders lost to their national side, and also to the visibility of Super Rugby. IMHO Super Rugby is the best of Southern Hemisphere rugby and needs more of a Pacific Island flavour to rejuvenate interest. I think it would be great for Pacific rugby if it were financially viable for more of the top players to stay down under for at least a few prime years - and hopefully develop combinations that transfer through to national teams. Samoa in particular seems to be declining on the international scene, and the Tongan side has constantly changing selections.
I think the NZRU and ARU are the main cause of PI players not playing in Super Rugby.
It's an unintended consequence of trying to protect our own pool of pro players against the lure of the north.
The restrictions on the number of non-nz qualified spots mean that guys like Leiua, Levave, TJ Ioane etc delay, defer their PI test careers while they are in the NZ system.
I don't see a fix, except 100 years in future NZ may have a population to support 12 pro teams rather than 5 and we ease up on limiting who takes these spots.
Or
European clubs pay players 30-50% less than they do now and NPC level in nz returns to a pro standard.
Since NZ's population has increased 25% since 1996 when rugby went pro and we have the same amount of pro teams, I'm not holding out much hope for the first.
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@tim Aaargh another impatient one off NZ shores and France-bound simply for the coin....Fuck I hate France
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@bones said in Exodus 2017:
@Crash @canefan steady on, he's only gone as an injury replacement from what I can see. No mention of contract length?
Injury replacement or no, he's gone isn't he? I can't see how the NZRFU would be thrilled with him popping over for part of a season, he certainly won't come back to a contract I'd think
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@bones said in Exodus 2017:
@Crash @canefan steady on, he's only gone as an injury replacement from what I can see. No mention of contract length?
Injury replacement or no, he's gone isn't he? I can't see how the NZRFU would be thrilled with him popping over for part of a season, he certainly won't come back to a contract I'd think
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@bones said in Exodus 2017:
@Crash @canefan steady on, he's only gone as an injury replacement from what I can see. No mention of contract length?
I read the media release on Lyon's website and the contract is only until the end of the season, so June 2018. He could be back for Mitre 10 Cup.
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@bones said in Exodus 2017:
@Crash @canefan steady on, he's only gone as an injury replacement from what I can see. No mention of contract length?
I read the media release on Lyon's website and the contract is only until the end of the season, so June 2018. He could be back for Mitre 10 Cup.
@stargazer which seems fair enough if he's not been picked up for super rugby. Gotta make a living somehow.
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Pita Ahki has signed with Connacht. Media release doesn't say for how long.
That probably also means that the Black Ferns 7s lose Kayla McAlister, a bigger loss to NZ rugby than Ahki. -
Not TJP.
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@stockcar86 Haha, I love that reaction! This was Julian's:
