AB's v Wales
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Meg was on the radio this morning
'Yes, NZ is missing a lot of their best players
But so is Wales
And the impact will be greater on Wales
NZ by 15-20'Can't argue with that logic
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Meg was on the radio this morning
'Yes, NZ is missing a lot of their best players
But so is Wales
And the impact will be greater on Wales
NZ by 15-20'Can't argue with that logic
@mikethesnow said in AB's v Wales:
Meg was on the radio this morning
'Yes, NZ is missing a lot of their best players
But so is Wales
And the impact will be greater on Wales
NZ by 15-20'Can't argue with that logic
He missed out 'and the Wales coach is a complete knobgobbling twat'
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@no-quarter said in AB's v Wales:
Luke Whitelock starting at 8 shows our lack of depth in that position. The coaches have to bear some responsibility there, they haven't developed anyone at all in that position. They seemed to try Ardie for a while but then canned that and haven't done anything since.
I hope Luke goes well, as others have noted he's not the player he was when he first made the team, so I'm confident he will make a good go of it.
I don't for a minute think our coaches are beyond reproach in terms of the way they've handled the succession of various positions. At hooker, for instance, they persisted on and on with just Mealamu and Hore, and eventually got lucky that Coles came along - with no discernible Plan B.
Similarly, No. 8. The real plan B. is Squire, but he hasn't actually played there yet - and now they need him at 6 this weekend, so Luke's thrown in at 8.
Actually, I think he'll be fine - I wrote a month or so back that there's a good prospect that he's the second best No. 8 in the country.
But, to the critique of the coaches, I'd add the selection of TKB for a farewell tour. What's been the point and why the contrast against the (non) selection of Luatua?
@chris-b said in AB's v Wales:
I don't for a minute think our coaches are beyond reproach in terms of the way they've handled the succession of various positions. At hooker, for instance, they persisted on and on with just Mealamu and Hore, and eventually got lucky that Coles came along - with no discernible Plan B.
Probably not the best example - they looked at a bunch of hookers, and very deliberately worked with Coles to lift his game. He became a far far better player after time in black with the coaching staff.
I'd say deliberate planning contributed more than luck
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@chris-b said in AB's v Wales:
I don't for a minute think our coaches are beyond reproach in terms of the way they've handled the succession of various positions. At hooker, for instance, they persisted on and on with just Mealamu and Hore, and eventually got lucky that Coles came along - with no discernible Plan B.
Probably not the best example - they looked at a bunch of hookers, and very deliberately worked with Coles to lift his game. He became a far far better player after time in black with the coaching staff.
I'd say deliberate planning contributed more than luck
@nzzp said in AB's v Wales:
@chris-b said in AB's v Wales:
I don't for a minute think our coaches are beyond reproach in terms of the way they've handled the succession of various positions. At hooker, for instance, they persisted on and on with just Mealamu and Hore, and eventually got lucky that Coles came along - with no discernible Plan B.
Probably not the best example - they looked at a bunch of hookers, and very deliberately worked with Coles to lift his game. He became a far far better player after time in black with the coaching staff.
I'd say deliberate planning contributed more than luck
For a moment I thought you were talking about K' Rd...
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@pakman said in AB's v Wales:
@tim said in AB's v Wales:
@pakman said in AB's v Wales:
From the Blues games I saw this year I think he's currently better at 6, but against that he doesn't have the tackling impact which Squire brings and I think the ABs are looking for in their 6s.
Bullshit. He has more physical impact on the tackle by far. Watch Squire against Australia in Brisbane this year. He no impact - so often he was second tackler and added nothing. Combine with his ruck inspecting. Then watch the semifinal against the Crusaders - he did nothing.
Very low work rate player who was dumped from the Chiefs for it. The most overrated player in NZ by far.
Well, from where I sit, Akira has had a bit of a tendency to be a scragger, in a similar mould to Savea (A) and Fifita, who to be fair did seem more physical when I watched the Scotland tape last night.
Compare with JK and Cane, who really get shoulder impact and are effective stoppers -- Shag's dominant tackles.
I'd put Squire more in the latter camp. One or two decent hits on Saturday. Tackles high, which does run risk of penalties for 'seat belt' tackling.That said, I agree he was pretty ineffective in Brisbane, and watching the weekend's tape seemed more to be looking to defend the fringes than getting his head into the dark spaces. Didn't see Clan semi so have to take your word for that.
But isn't it also a question of style? Seems that big hitting rampaging 6s are often less effective at ruck time. Compare with John Barclay, who isn't as physical, but on Saturday was almost like a second 7, and caused ABs a few problems at ruck time. Richard Hill was also similar, but absolutely key to the 2003 England team.
Surely much of that comes down to the skillset dictated by the defensive coach? eg are we going in to disrupt so the rest of the defence is aligned and ready or are we going to reduce the threat of pick and goes by having big hitters waiting on the fringes?
In past seasons we have gone for JK looking to smash runners backward while the world's best disrupter was doing his work at the breakdown.
Now Cane has taken more of the hard tackler role and while we still want our 6 to put the shoulder in, that isn't their main role. We are looking for carries from 6, something we didn't see a huge amount of from JK.
Both Fifita and Squire are good ball carriers. They just need to learn to link to support better.@crucial said in AB's v Wales:
@pakman said in AB's v Wales:
@tim said in AB's v Wales:
@pakman said in AB's v Wales:
From the Blues games I saw this year I think he's currently better at 6, but against that he doesn't have the tackling impact which Squire brings and I think the ABs are looking for in their 6s.
Bullshit. He has more physical impact on the tackle by far. Watch Squire against Australia in Brisbane this year. He no impact - so often he was second tackler and added nothing. Combine with his ruck inspecting. Then watch the semifinal against the Crusaders - he did nothing.
Very low work rate player who was dumped from the Chiefs for it. The most overrated player in NZ by far.
Well, from where I sit, Akira has had a bit of a tendency to be a scragger, in a similar mould to Savea (A) and Fifita, who to be fair did seem more physical when I watched the Scotland tape last night.
Compare with JK and Cane, who really get shoulder impact and are effective stoppers -- Shag's dominant tackles.
I'd put Squire more in the latter camp. One or two decent hits on Saturday. Tackles high, which does run risk of penalties for 'seat belt' tackling.That said, I agree he was pretty ineffective in Brisbane, and watching the weekend's tape seemed more to be looking to defend the fringes than getting his head into the dark spaces. Didn't see Clan semi so have to take your word for that.
But isn't it also a question of style? Seems that big hitting rampaging 6s are often less effective at ruck time. Compare with John Barclay, who isn't as physical, but on Saturday was almost like a second 7, and caused ABs a few problems at ruck time. Richard Hill was also similar, but absolutely key to the 2003 England team.
Surely much of that comes down to the skillset dictated by the defensive coach? eg are we going in to disrupt so the rest of the defence is aligned and ready or are we going to reduce the threat of pick and goes by having big hitters waiting on the fringes?
In past seasons we have gone for JK looking to smash runners backward while the world's best disrupter was doing his work at the breakdown.
Now Cane has taken more of the hard tackler role and while we still want our 6 to put the shoulder in, that isn't their main role. We are looking for carries from 6, something we didn't see a huge amount of from JK.
Both Fifita and Squire are good ball carriers. They just need to learn to link to support better.Interesting that when Shag was discussing Whitelock (L)'s selection at 8 he emphasised his high workrate. Akira didn't rate a mention.
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Don't understand the love for Akira. People are looking at the huge potential and not the actual player that he is now. Does he dominate the tackle on the ruck fringes? Does he bounce back to his feet after every tackle to make another? Does he shift bodies at the breakdown? Does he make meters in the tight exchanges? I don't think so yet.
Does he run good support lines? Does he make good meters in the loose? Does he have a good passing/support game? Yes, he does I think.
Let the man develop! He is a young fella who needs to build up strength and impact to cope with test rugby at 6 or 8.What I have seen of Luke.W is that he has developed the areas of the game that Akira lacks at the moment. Not as much of a highlights player but a good solid unit especially in tight, physical games (Crusaders vs Clan this year).
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Don't understand the love for Akira. People are looking at the huge potential and not the actual player that he is now. Does he dominate the tackle on the ruck fringes? Does he bounce back to his feet after every tackle to make another? Does he shift bodies at the breakdown? Does he make meters in the tight exchanges? I don't think so yet.
Does he run good support lines? Does he make good meters in the loose? Does he have a good passing/support game? Yes, he does I think.
Let the man develop! He is a young fella who needs to build up strength and impact to cope with test rugby at 6 or 8.What I have seen of Luke.W is that he has developed the areas of the game that Akira lacks at the moment. Not as much of a highlights player but a good solid unit especially in tight, physical games (Crusaders vs Clan this year).
And, I think he's playing the most similar game to Read at the moment too, who has been a bit tight for me (I can't remember the last time I saw him ranging on the fringes giving offloads), but perhaps that's to do with them shifting the role of the 6 a bit and looking for that sort of game from the young sixes. With that in mind, I like the balance of Squire, Whitelock and Cane, but I think there is a lot of pressure on Squire to contribute. Long term, I guess that Squire is the 8 in waiting, but perhaps there is a place for Whitelock as the guy who can be called in (ala Matt Todd) to start when needed.
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And, I think he's playing the most similar game to Read at the moment too, who has been a bit tight for me (I can't remember the last time I saw him ranging on the fringes giving offloads), but perhaps that's to do with them shifting the role of the 6 a bit and looking for that sort of game from the young sixes. With that in mind, I like the balance of Squire, Whitelock and Cane, but I think there is a lot of pressure on Squire to contribute. Long term, I guess that Squire is the 8 in waiting, but perhaps there is a place for Whitelock as the guy who can be called in (ala Matt Todd) to start when needed.
@gt12 Suspect Read has been tighter partly in response to BBBR, Franks and Moody being out. Have noticed Squire has been loitering out wide, and scored a couple of nice tries as a result. Whitelock probably being asked to play a 'tight Read' game.
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@chris-b said in AB's v Wales:
I don't for a minute think our coaches are beyond reproach in terms of the way they've handled the succession of various positions. At hooker, for instance, they persisted on and on with just Mealamu and Hore, and eventually got lucky that Coles came along - with no discernible Plan B.
Probably not the best example - they looked at a bunch of hookers, and very deliberately worked with Coles to lift his game. He became a far far better player after time in black with the coaching staff.
I'd say deliberate planning contributed more than luck
@nzzp said in AB's v Wales:
@chris-b said in AB's v Wales:
I don't for a minute think our coaches are beyond reproach in terms of the way they've handled the succession of various positions. At hooker, for instance, they persisted on and on with just Mealamu and Hore, and eventually got lucky that Coles came along - with no discernible Plan B.
Probably not the best example - they looked at a bunch of hookers...
Did they?
My memory is that they went out of their way not to give people like Flynn and Elliot game time, even when Mealamu and Hore were creaking into their mid-thirties. I think they used de Malmanche briefly - but, Flynn ADM and Eliot pretty much only got a run when one of the top two was injured and acquired barely a handful of test starts among them (in fact, four).
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On Whitelock’s captaincy….
About time Samwise of the Whitelocks was handed the captain’s armband.
I was at the Principality Stadium in 2015 for the RWC quarter final against France, and I was most impressed with Sam Whitelock – he was simply outstanding.
With his partner in crime BBBR - he just kept trucking it up into heavy contact (those French boys were pretty big units) all night, they marked up on him too, often 2 or 3 in the tackle. And he didn’t shirk his defensive duties in the tight either; tackling, hitting ruck after ruck, shifting bodies, getting up, tackling again, seeking out the next contact area.
This season for the Crusaders he was a revelation - commanding respect, when the chips were down, he gathered the team together, gave a few pointed comments (seemingly something like just farking get on with it and lets win this thing) and simply rolled up his sleeves himself. Definitely a captain in the mould of “over the top with me, boys”
He is a better option to captain the ABs than Read IMHO. Read is just too smiley. I just don’t think he has the gravitas to press his claims with the Ref at vital times as much as he should, and equally for the team when the going is tough. He is just too well…nice. I think Sam will say it how it is. A no-nonsense approach.
Can’t wait. -
@gt12 Suspect Read has been tighter partly in response to BBBR, Franks and Moody being out. Have noticed Squire has been loitering out wide, and scored a couple of nice tries as a result. Whitelock probably being asked to play a 'tight Read' game.
@pakman said in AB's v Wales:
@gt12 Suspect Read has been tighter partly in response to BBBR, Franks and Moody being out. Have noticed Squire has been loitering out wide, and scored a couple of nice tries as a result. Whitelock probably being asked to play a 'tight Read' game.
The roles have changed as when Kaino was the 6 he played tighter allowing Read to roam in the wider channels. This year Read has assumed the tighter role while Squire plays wider.
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WALES TEAM TO PLAY NEW ZEALAND
(Saturday 25 November KO 17.15)Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets) (72 Caps)
Hallam Amos (Dragons) (13 Caps)
Scott Williams (Scarlets) (49 Caps)
Owen Williams (Gloucester) (2 Caps)
Steff Evans (Scarlets) (3 Caps)
Dan Biggar (Ospreys) (58 Caps)
Rhys Webb (Ospreys) (29 Caps);- Rob Evans (Scarlets) (18 Caps)
- Ken Owens (Scarlets) (51 Caps)
- Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs) (25 Caps)
- Jake Ball (Scarlets) (27 Caps)
- Alun Wyn Jones (CAPT) (Ospreys) (111 Caps)
- Aaron Shingler (Scarlets) (11 Caps)
- Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues) (5 Caps)
- Taulupe Faletau (Bath) (68 Caps)
REPLACEMENTS:
16. Kristian Dacey (Cardiff Blues) (6 Caps)
17. Wyn Jones (Scarlets) (3 Caps)
18. Leon Brown (Dragons) (2 Caps)
19. Cory Hill (Dragons) (8 Caps)
20. Justin Tipuric (Ospreys) (51 Caps)
21. Gareth Davies (Scarlets) (26 Caps)
22. Rhys Priestland (Bath) (49 Caps)
23. Jamie Roberts (Harlequins) (93 Caps)Best we can do I guess considering the squad and injuries.
Would have had Watkin instead of Roberts.
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Didn't watch much Crusaders in SR, but watched them v Lions. Was not impressed with Sam's captaincy in that game, at all.
@rapido said in AB's v Wales:
Didn't watch much Crusaders in SR, but watched them v Lions. Was not impressed with Sam's captaincy in that game, at all.
Why?
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Didn't watch much Crusaders in SR, but watched them v Lions. Was not impressed with Sam's captaincy in that game, at all.
@rapido said in AB's v Wales:
Didn't watch much Crusaders in SR, but watched them v Lions. Was not impressed with Sam's captaincy in that game, at all.
Pretty small sample size then. I watched almost all of the 'Saders games and I was dead impressed with his leadership. One of the reasons they won it I reckon.
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@rapido said in AB's v Wales:
Didn't watch much Crusaders in SR, but watched them v Lions. Was not impressed with Sam's captaincy in that game, at all.
Pretty small sample size then. I watched almost all of the 'Saders games and I was dead impressed with his leadership. One of the reasons they won it I reckon.
@snowy yep, those early games when they fought back from so far behind as they built into the season and then becoming the first team to win an away final....vs the Lions.
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Another advantage to Luke Wgitelock is the partnership he has with Squire as a 6/8, they play week in, week out together. So there isn't much of a shake up with the loose trio by bringing him in. While he hasn't played much with Cane, he's probably played 25 games with Liam Squire.
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Why isn't Tipuric starting?
I didn't see the Wales-Aust game so have no idea how Navidi played.
@bovidae said in AB's v Wales:
Why isn't Tipuric starting?
I didn't see the Wales-Aust game so have no idea how Navidi played.
First game back from injury.
Navidi went OK. Plenty of dog. Came on against Georgia and didn't have a big impact.
Solid club player who's had two good seasons but only there because of injury.
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Big Sam is going to get a haircut and shave next week. He will look like his dad but with more hair. https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/99243914/all-blacks-lock-shaving-beard-and-head-to-help-7yearold
