The Ashes
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Beefy makes the team based on one incredible ashes. How did he go in others?
This is the eternal question for these 'best XI' though. Is it a flash of brilliance, or consistency that gets rewarded. Are you picking someone for a career, or at their best for a single game? And what about partnerships - we know Warne and McGrath were great together -- like Langer and Hayden. Do you pick an opening partnership, or two great openers.
Beefy makes the team based on one incredible ashes. How did he go in others?
This is the eternal question for these 'best XI' though. Is it a flash of brilliance, or consistency that gets rewarded. Are you picking someone for a career, or at their best for a single game? And what about partnerships - we know Warne and McGrath were great together -- like Langer and Hayden. Do you pick an opening partnership, or two great openers.
Beefys overall stats are remarkably similar to Chris Cairns but he is obviously regarded far higher than our boy who didn't even make the prestigious all time fern XI...
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For ease of reference:
Highest Ashes batting averages:
Lowest Ashes bowling averages:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/bowling/best_career_bowling_average.html?id=1;type=trophy -
For ease of reference:
Highest Ashes batting averages:
Lowest Ashes bowling averages:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/bowling/best_career_bowling_average.html?id=1;type=trophy@chris-b said in The Ashes:
For ease of reference:
Highest Ashes batting averages:
Lowest Ashes bowling averages:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/bowling/best_career_bowling_average.html?id=1;type=trophyTugga and Border make it for longevity as much as anything as quite a few blokes can make cases for inclusion. Hutton, Barrington and Sutcliffe to name a few.
No Jimmy Anderson on the list.
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For the time before the 2 test matches start - this XI was voted for on the BBC Sport website based on performances in Ashes tests. In my best Murray Deaker voice "Yours please"
Hobbs
Boycott
Bradman
Border
S. Waugh
Botham
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
McGrath
AndersonFor the time before the 2 test matches start - this XI was voted for on the BBC Sport website based on performances in Ashes tests. In my best Murray Deaker voice "Yours please"
Hobbs
Boycott
Bradman
Border
S. Waugh
Botham
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
McGrath
AndersonI can't believe they didn't se the team I picked and close off the poll with a satisfied "that's that done then"
FWIW from memory I had Hutton for Boycott (might have gone Hayden), Hammond for Border, Miller for Botham and Barnes for Anderson
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For the time before the 2 test matches start - this XI was voted for on the BBC Sport website based on performances in Ashes tests. In my best Murray Deaker voice "Yours please"
Hobbs
Boycott
Bradman
Border
S. Waugh
Botham
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
McGrath
AndersonI can't believe they didn't se the team I picked and close off the poll with a satisfied "that's that done then"
FWIW from memory I had Hutton for Boycott (might have gone Hayden), Hammond for Border, Miller for Botham and Barnes for Anderson
For the time before the 2 test matches start - this XI was voted for on the BBC Sport website based on performances in Ashes tests. In my best Murray Deaker voice "Yours please"
Hobbs
Boycott
Bradman
Border
S. Waugh
Botham
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
McGrath
AndersonI can't believe they didn't se the team I picked and close off the poll with a satisfied "that's that done then"
FWIW from memory I had Hutton for Boycott (might have gone Hayden), Hammond for Border, Miller for Botham and Barnes for Anderson
Bradman only averaged 89 in the Ashes. He's lucky to scrape in to be honest.
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For the time before the 2 test matches start - this XI was voted for on the BBC Sport website based on performances in Ashes tests. In my best Murray Deaker voice "Yours please"
Hobbs
Boycott
Bradman
Border
S. Waugh
Botham
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
McGrath
AndersonI can't believe they didn't se the team I picked and close off the poll with a satisfied "that's that done then"
FWIW from memory I had Hutton for Boycott (might have gone Hayden), Hammond for Border, Miller for Botham and Barnes for Anderson
Bradman only averaged 89 in the Ashes. He's lucky to scrape in to be honest.
@mn5 Well below par for Bradman and I'm sure the Aussie management told him to lift his game against England.
A bit like Hammond really.
Just going to adjust your own earlier post as it seems relevant.Definitely but judging by that he obviously boosted the overall test average to 99.94 by flogging shit teams like everyone else.
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For the time before the 2 test matches start - this XI was voted for on the BBC Sport website based on performances in Ashes tests. In my best Murray Deaker voice "Yours please"
Hobbs
Boycott
Bradman
Border
S. Waugh
Botham
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
McGrath
AndersonI can't believe they didn't se the team I picked and close off the poll with a satisfied "that's that done then"
FWIW from memory I had Hutton for Boycott (might have gone Hayden), Hammond for Border, Miller for Botham and Barnes for Anderson
For the time before the 2 test matches start - this XI was voted for on the BBC Sport website based on performances in Ashes tests. In my best Murray Deaker voice "Yours please"
Hobbs
Boycott
Bradman
Border
S. Waugh
Botham
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
McGrath
AndersonI can't believe they didn't se the team I picked and close off the poll with a satisfied "that's that done then"
FWIW from memory I had Hutton for Boycott (might have gone Hayden), Hammond for Border, Miller for Botham and Barnes for Anderson
For just a moment I thought you were referring to Geoff Miller or Colin "Funky" Miller ... but I pretty much agree with you, the openers are hardest to pick.
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Take out Bodyline and I bet Bradmans Ashes average would be closer to his test average. I think he "only" averaged 50 in that series.
@rancid-schnitzel said in The Ashes:
Take out Bodyline and I bet Bradmans Ashes average would be closer to his test average. I think he "only" averaged 50 in that series.
He really was quite shit then. That Indian above is correct. Why did they keep picking him?
Honestly, if you can't maintain an average of 99 when people are hurling a cricket ball at your body with fuck all protection...hardly an Aussie battler.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in The Ashes:
Take out Bodyline and I bet Bradmans Ashes average would be closer to his test average. I think he "only" averaged 50 in that series.
He really was quite shit then. That Indian above is correct. Why did they keep picking him?
Honestly, if you can't maintain an average of 99 when people are hurling a cricket ball at your body with fuck all protection...hardly an Aussie battler.
@rancid-schnitzel said in The Ashes:
Take out Bodyline and I bet Bradmans Ashes average would be closer to his test average. I think he "only" averaged 50 in that series.
He really was quite shit then. That Indian above is correct. Why did they keep picking him?
Honestly, if you can't maintain an average of 99 when people are hurling a cricket ball at your body with fuck all protection...hardly an Aussie battler.
The funny thing is that the Indians genuinely believe some of their guys are better.
Not only that their nation has never produced a single world class fast bowler
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@rancid-schnitzel said in The Ashes:
Take out Bodyline and I bet Bradmans Ashes average would be closer to his test average. I think he "only" averaged 50 in that series.
He really was quite shit then. That Indian above is correct. Why did they keep picking him?
Honestly, if you can't maintain an average of 99 when people are hurling a cricket ball at your body with fuck all protection...hardly an Aussie battler.
The funny thing is that the Indians genuinely believe some of their guys are better.
Not only that their nation has never produced a single world class fast bowler
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@MN5 434 test wickets at under 30 when you've had to play 119 tests at home isn't World Class? averaging 24.5 in Oz
You have a tough definition of world class?
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@MN5 434 test wickets at under 30 when you've had to play 119 tests at home isn't World Class? averaging 24.5 in Oz
You have a tough definition of world class?
Kapil wasn't up there with the absolute best in my opinion
Maybe not but was world class. Especially considering he probably had to do most of that in India
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@MN5 434 test wickets at under 30 when you've had to play 119 tests at home isn't World Class? averaging 24.5 in Oz
You have a tough definition of world class?
Kapil wasn't up there with the absolute best in my opinion
Maybe not but was world class. Especially considering he probably had to do most of that in India
Especially considering he probably had to do most of that in India
I think that is what @dogmeat is referring to with the 119 tests at home comment.
I'm going with "India have produced a single world class fast bowler". Struggling to think of others that are right up there.
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Especially considering he probably had to do most of that in India
I think that is what @dogmeat is referring to with the 119 tests at home comment.
I'm going with "India have produced a single world class fast bowler". Struggling to think of others that are right up there.
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I'm going with "India have produced a single world class fast bowler". Struggling to think of others that are right up there.
By that standard, we've produced:
Hadlee
Bond (truncated)
...Yes. 100% more than India.
I'll leave it to you to remind the Indians of that.
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Beefy makes the team based on one incredible ashes. How did he go in others?
( again, I can't access that info on a smartphone )
He was always a bit hit and miss with the bat - but with the ball there were 2 phases to his career. A superb, fast medium swing bowler until his back went and then a chubby trundler afterwards who could still bowl the odd jaffa (and had the mentality that he was still a hostile quick)
After that 1981 series he had 87 wickets against Australia at 22.67. From then on it was 61 wickets at 34.77.
@kiwipie The thing about Beefy was less about his overall stats and more what he did to change the course of a match in a particular spell, be it bowling or batting. He had some pretty dreary spells bowling and then out of nowhere came a devastating spell that just turned things on their head. His batting was also a bit hit and miss but there were quite a few times he was asked to go out there and swing hard. Looks great for a short while but buggers up your stats.
All rounders are harder to qualify IMO. Looking at the stats, you'd have to say Kallis is the man, but how many of those big innings were done at a pace that suited the match. Sobers stats do not compare that well with Kallis but I'd have him in the team every day over the Saffer - and over Botham too.
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@kiwipie The thing about Beefy was less about his overall stats and more what he did to change the course of a match in a particular spell, be it bowling or batting. He had some pretty dreary spells bowling and then out of nowhere came a devastating spell that just turned things on their head. His batting was also a bit hit and miss but there were quite a few times he was asked to go out there and swing hard. Looks great for a short while but buggers up your stats.
All rounders are harder to qualify IMO. Looking at the stats, you'd have to say Kallis is the man, but how many of those big innings were done at a pace that suited the match. Sobers stats do not compare that well with Kallis but I'd have him in the team every day over the Saffer - and over Botham too.
@catogrande said in The Ashes:
@kiwipie The thing about Beefy was less about his overall stats and more what he did to change the course of a match in a particular spell, be it bowling or batting. He had some pretty dreary spells bowling and then out of nowhere came a devastating spell that just turned things on their head. His batting was also a bit hit and miss but there were quite a few times he was asked to go out there and swing hard. Looks great for a short while but buggers up your stats.
All rounders are harder to qualify IMO. Looking at the stats, you'd have to say Kallis is the man, but how many of those big innings were done at a pace that suited the match. Sobers stats do not compare that well with Kallis but I'd have him in the team every day over the Saffer - and over Botham too.
How do Sobers stats not compare with Kallis? They're extremely similar.
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@catogrande said in The Ashes:
@kiwipie The thing about Beefy was less about his overall stats and more what he did to change the course of a match in a particular spell, be it bowling or batting. He had some pretty dreary spells bowling and then out of nowhere came a devastating spell that just turned things on their head. His batting was also a bit hit and miss but there were quite a few times he was asked to go out there and swing hard. Looks great for a short while but buggers up your stats.
All rounders are harder to qualify IMO. Looking at the stats, you'd have to say Kallis is the man, but how many of those big innings were done at a pace that suited the match. Sobers stats do not compare that well with Kallis but I'd have him in the team every day over the Saffer - and over Botham too.
How do Sobers stats not compare with Kallis? They're extremely similar.
@mn5 More the longevity of Kallis and the sheer number of tons the bloke got. More test tons than most regular batsmen. Anyway, my point being (in relation to Botham's effectiveness), who had the most profound effect of the games played? A bit like Gilchrist, his stats don't bear comparison with Kallis but bloody hell he turned some matches for Aus.
