Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****
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@mn5 said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@virgil said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
Your not helping your case.
With respect Virgil you haven't exactly put forward a compelling argument yourself.
Thats putting it mildly.....
I love Virgs work and often we agree on a lot but every now and again we're at loggerheads. I think I've made my feelings for this flick pretty clear and, tragically, not even the 'It's Star Wars' argument can save it which for me personally is heartbreaking.
Positive points ?
More compelling performances from R n R.
Probably Mark Hamills best performance as LS.
Snoke a great bad guy ( Still not as good as the Emperor )
A kick ass fight with the Red Guards
.....
I would say this: Ben Solo is a very interesting character (and well acted) but not Kylo Ren. What I mean is that Kylo Ren is only cool with the mask and mystery. When he takes the mask off he's a joke.
I think they really missed a cool character ark here. They should have started with Ben turning in VII.
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Thanks to you ladies I’m watching it again tonight, need me to # every scene as I go?
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@virgil said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
Thanks to you ladies I’m watching it again tonight, need me to # every scene as I go?
Why would you do that?
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You guys seem to be replying close together
Are you in the same room? (Bed) -
I'm going off my first watch reaction and I enjoyed it.
Hardly flawless, but every SW movie has flaws. I'm often happy to wave those away to get to the bits I like. Its nowhere near the most unwatchable movie but as part of the SW story is has frustrating bits in retrospect.If I wanted to be critical it would be that some very poor decisions were made to put set pieces above characters and that the wrong bits hit the cutting room floor. I'm sure some geek with way too much time on their hands could take what is now available (including cut scenes) and re-edit it to a better movie.
I can certainly see a much better version of the movie in my head but don't mind the high level story arc at all. The 'move on from the past' theme is a good one.
What I'd change to make it much better.
- keep the Poe scene at the beginning but have him question whether the losses were worth it himself instead of being made a gung-ho fool. Get a crisis of conscience thing going.
- Remove Hondo and Rose entirely. I get that they felt Finn needed a sidekick but why not make that Poe? A buddy cop scenario. Poe looking for redemption and Finn wondering why he is even there.
- Scrap the casino set piece. It wasn't that bad, it was just unnecessary.
- Have Finn and Poe spent their time creeping around the Star Destroyer with Phasma hunting them down.
- Get rid of the Mary Poppins bit. Still have Leia damaged and using the force to save herself but not that way.
- Have Finn and Poe escape to the deserted Resistance ship and programme it to do the hyperspace thing before escaping last minute.
On the Rey/Luke side of things, the changes above would leave room to make that story more coherent. Get rid of the extremely puzzling Rey in the cave scene.
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@crucial said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
I'm going off my first watch reaction and I enjoyed it.
Hardly flawless, but every SW movie has flaws. I'm often happy to wave those away to get to the bits I like. Its nowhere near the most unwatchable movie but as part of the SW story is has frustrating bits in retrospect.If I wanted to be critical it would be that some very poor decisions were made to put set pieces above characters and that the wrong bits hit the cutting room floor. I'm sure some geek with way too much time on their hands could take what is now available (including cut scenes) and re-edit it to a better movie.
I can certainly see a much better version of the movie in my head but don't mind the high level story arc at all. The 'move on from the past' theme is a good one.
What I'd change to make it much better.
- keep the Poe scene at the beginning but have him question whether the losses were worth it himself instead of being made a gung-ho fool. Get a crisis of conscience thing going.
- Remove Hondo and Rose entirely. I get that they felt Finn needed a sidekick but why not make that Poe? A buddy cop scenario. Poe looking for redemption and Finn wondering why he is even there.
- Scrap the casino set piece. It wasn't that bad, it was just unnecessary.
- Have Finn and Poe spent their time creeping around the Star Destroyer with Phasma hunting them down.
- Get rid of the Mary Poppins bit. Still have Leia damaged and using the force to save herself but not that way.
- Have Finn and Poe escape to the deserted Resistance ship and programme it to do the hyperspace thing before escaping last minute.
On the Rey/Luke side of things, the changes above would leave room to make that story more coherent. Get rid of the extremely puzzling Rey in the cave scene.
So pretty much change the movie entirely? Yeah that would work to be fair. Also remove DJ and add a much better character ( s )
@Virgil after years on the fern together I really expect a lot better than that lame retort.
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@virgil said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
You guys seem to be replying close together
Are you in the same room? (Bed)Damn Virgil. You really love this movie don't you?
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Some quality rants here. Pretty much spot on.
Another (of the many) absurd scenes was when Rose rams Finn away from his suicide mission. The shit that followed was cringworthy enough, but they were lying literally ride beside the enemy. How did Finn then drag her back? Right through the front door? Anyway all summarised here: -
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@virgil said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
You guys seem to be replying close together
Are you in the same room? (Bed)Damn Virgil. You really love this movie don't you?
@Virgil Is a kite dancing in a Hurricane....
( classic quote from the latest Bond flick, he'll hate that
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@crucial There's not a movie I see that I don't think I could make better (well not make myself but tell them how to make better ). But they're making the movie they want to make.
I agree with most of your tweaks - but I'd have Leia or Admiral Ackbar do the hyperspace thing. I'd actually have Luke (body not just soul) be there too.
Either way, with the stuff I want to change in this it doesn't compare to the prequels which I find un-rewatchable.
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@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@crucial There's not a movie I see that I don't think I could make better (well not make myself but tell them how to make better ). But they're making the movie they want to make.
I agree with most of your tweaks - but I'd have Leia or Admiral Ackbar do the hyperspace thing. I'd actually have Luke (body not just soul) be there too.
Either way, with the stuff I want to change in this it doesn't compare to the prequels which I find un-rewatchable.
No one was to know that Carrie Fisher wouldn't make it to EpIX so that great opportunity was missed.
Although I think TPM is rubbish in the series, as a stand alone kids movie it was actually not that bad and I have seen it far more than the other two which are really lacking in watchability. Hayden Christensen is a terrible actor but no one could deliver some of those lines written for him. Even a quality actor like Ewen MacGreor struggled.
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@crucial said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@crucial There's not a movie I see that I don't think I could make better (well not make myself but tell them how to make better ). But they're making the movie they want to make.
I agree with most of your tweaks - but I'd have Leia or Admiral Ackbar do the hyperspace thing. I'd actually have Luke (body not just soul) be there too.
Either way, with the stuff I want to change in this it doesn't compare to the prequels which I find un-rewatchable.
No one was to know that Carrie Fisher wouldn't make it to EpIX so that great opportunity was missed.
Although I think TPM is rubbish in the series, as a stand alone kids movie it was actually not that bad and I have seen it far more than the other two which are really lacking in watchability. Hayden Christensen is a terrible actor but no one could deliver some of those lines written for him. Even a quality actor like Ewen MacGreor struggled.
Yeah, that was a bummer, but I still reckon Akbar would have been better for that role rather than some random character we only just met.
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@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@crucial said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@crucial There's not a movie I see that I don't think I could make better (well not make myself but tell them how to make better ). But they're making the movie they want to make.
I agree with most of your tweaks - but I'd have Leia or Admiral Ackbar do the hyperspace thing. I'd actually have Luke (body not just soul) be there too.
Either way, with the stuff I want to change in this it doesn't compare to the prequels which I find un-rewatchable.
No one was to know that Carrie Fisher wouldn't make it to EpIX so that great opportunity was missed.
Although I think TPM is rubbish in the series, as a stand alone kids movie it was actually not that bad and I have seen it far more than the other two which are really lacking in watchability. Hayden Christensen is a terrible actor but no one could deliver some of those lines written for him. Even a quality actor like Ewen MacGreor struggled.
Yeah, that was a bummer, but I still reckon Akbar would have been better for that role rather than some random character we only just met.
It is one of the problems that has crept in over the movies. Introducing new characters and trying to give them a little depth rather than being an adjunct to the core.
In the originals you would get these interesting side characters that the fans were left to flesh out. Only really Lando was added as core. This time we keep getting to much time on new additions that are boring while setting others up as important and then forgetting about them. -
@crucial said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@crucial said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@crucial There's not a movie I see that I don't think I could make better (well not make myself but tell them how to make better ). But they're making the movie they want to make.
I agree with most of your tweaks - but I'd have Leia or Admiral Ackbar do the hyperspace thing. I'd actually have Luke (body not just soul) be there too.
Either way, with the stuff I want to change in this it doesn't compare to the prequels which I find un-rewatchable.
No one was to know that Carrie Fisher wouldn't make it to EpIX so that great opportunity was missed.
Although I think TPM is rubbish in the series, as a stand alone kids movie it was actually not that bad and I have seen it far more than the other two which are really lacking in watchability. Hayden Christensen is a terrible actor but no one could deliver some of those lines written for him. Even a quality actor like Ewen MacGreor struggled.
Yeah, that was a bummer, but I still reckon Akbar would have been better for that role rather than some random character we only just met.
It is one of the problems that has crept in over the movies. Introducing new characters and trying to give them a little depth rather than being an adjunct to the core.
In the originals you would get these interesting side characters that the fans were left to flesh out. Only really Lando was added as core. This time we keep getting to much time on new additions that are boring while setting others up as important and then forgetting about them.The only remotely decent new characters are Ren, Rey and Snoke. All of the rest, without exception, are varying degrees of crap.
Contrast that with Rogue One. Jyn, Krennic, K2SO, Chirrut and Baze are all fine additions the the SW universe. I'm hoping Solo gives us some goodies as well.
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So I've just sat and watched this with Ms Cato No1. This was an important issue for her as she is very close to giving up on Star Wars. She hated TFA and was not even luke-warm on Rogue One. This was the last chance saloon as far as she was concerned. However TLJ offered enough in her opinion to save Star Wars and she is now prepared to wait in anticipation for the next round (Not including Solo). Like daughter No1 I was quite happy with it on the whole and found the fleshing out of Rey and Kylo interesting and I liked that it was a bit darker, sort of in the vein as ESB in that respect.
I thought it was a shame that Snoke wasn't given enough of a story and also sorry to see the Admiral get his. Who's going to recognise any traps now? And the fact the code-breaker turned out to be a wrong 'un. I thought his character had something going for it.
Things that bugged me:-
Leia's Mary Poppins moment. Have I missed somewhere along the line that she knew she had powerful force abilities or did she just think "Fuck it, I'll give it a go"? Plus it was just a bit crap.Rose and Po both surviving not only a major crash but also a real slog back to friendly lines whilst injured - as has been alluded to earlier.
The crystal critters. Why? Just why? I understand they need something to show them all the escape route and to allow Rey to move the stones, but those things were just shite. And so were those stupid little birds.
The casino scene, in fact most of what went on on that planet seemed to be a giant waste of time and effort.
However, overall better than quite a few of the series.
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@catogrande said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
So I've just sat and watched this with Ms Cato No1. This was an important issue for her as she is very close to giving up on Star Wars. She hated TFA and was not even luke-warm on Rogue One. This was the last chance saloon as far as she was concerned. However TLJ offered enough in her opinion to save Star Wars and she is now prepared to wait in anticipation for the next round (Not including Solo). Like daughter No1 I was quite happy with it on the whole and found the fleshing out of Rey and Kylo interesting and I liked that it was a bit darker, sort of in the vein as ESB in that respect.
I thought it was a shame that Snoke wasn't given enough of a story and also sorry to see the Admiral get his. Who's going to recognise any traps now? And the fact the code-breaker turned out to be a wrong 'un. I thought his character had something going for it.
Things that bugged me:-
Leia's Mary Poppins moment. Have I missed somewhere along the line that she knew she had powerful force abilities or did she just think "Fuck it, I'll give it a go"? Plus it was just a bit crap.Rose and Po both surviving not only a major crash but also a real slog back to friendly lines whilst injured - as has been alluded to earlier.
The crystal critters. Why? Just why? I understand they need something to show them all the escape route and to allow Rey to move the stones, but those things were just shite. And so were those stupid little birds.
The casino scene, in fact most of what went on on that planet seemed to be a giant waste of time and effort.
However, overall better than quite a few of the series.
With due respect Cato and I say this as someone who likes and admires you:
Get a fooking pair of glasses.
TLJ is an abortion of a film. Easily the worst of the Franchise and possibly the beginning of the end of Star Wars as the blue chip brand it has always been.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@catogrande said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
So I've just sat and watched this with Ms Cato No1. This was an important issue for her as she is very close to giving up on Star Wars. She hated TFA and was not even luke-warm on Rogue One. This was the last chance saloon as far as she was concerned. However TLJ offered enough in her opinion to save Star Wars and she is now prepared to wait in anticipation for the next round (Not including Solo). Like daughter No1 I was quite happy with it on the whole and found the fleshing out of Rey and Kylo interesting and I liked that it was a bit darker, sort of in the vein as ESB in that respect.
I thought it was a shame that Snoke wasn't given enough of a story and also sorry to see the Admiral get his. Who's going to recognise any traps now? And the fact the code-breaker turned out to be a wrong 'un. I thought his character had something going for it.
Things that bugged me:-
Leia's Mary Poppins moment. Have I missed somewhere along the line that she knew she had powerful force abilities or did she just think "Fuck it, I'll give it a go"? Plus it was just a bit crap.Rose and Po both surviving not only a major crash but also a real slog back to friendly lines whilst injured - as has been alluded to earlier.
The crystal critters. Why? Just why? I understand they need something to show them all the escape route and to allow Rey to move the stones, but those things were just shite. And so were those stupid little birds.
The casino scene, in fact most of what went on on that planet seemed to be a giant waste of time and effort.
However, overall better than quite a few of the series.
With due respect Cato and I say this as someone who likes and admires you:
Get a fooking pair of glasses.
TLJ is an abortion of a film. Easily the worst of the Franchise and possibly the beginning of the end of Star Wars as the blue chip brand it has always been.
Sad but true.
Hopefully Solo is awesome, only a few weeks to go!
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@mn5 said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@catogrande said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
So I've just sat and watched this with Ms Cato No1. This was an important issue for her as she is very close to giving up on Star Wars. She hated TFA and was not even luke-warm on Rogue One. This was the last chance saloon as far as she was concerned. However TLJ offered enough in her opinion to save Star Wars and she is now prepared to wait in anticipation for the next round (Not including Solo). Like daughter No1 I was quite happy with it on the whole and found the fleshing out of Rey and Kylo interesting and I liked that it was a bit darker, sort of in the vein as ESB in that respect.
I thought it was a shame that Snoke wasn't given enough of a story and also sorry to see the Admiral get his. Who's going to recognise any traps now? And the fact the code-breaker turned out to be a wrong 'un. I thought his character had something going for it.
Things that bugged me:-
Leia's Mary Poppins moment. Have I missed somewhere along the line that she knew she had powerful force abilities or did she just think "Fuck it, I'll give it a go"? Plus it was just a bit crap.Rose and Po both surviving not only a major crash but also a real slog back to friendly lines whilst injured - as has been alluded to earlier.
The crystal critters. Why? Just why? I understand they need something to show them all the escape route and to allow Rey to move the stones, but those things were just shite. And so were those stupid little birds.
The casino scene, in fact most of what went on on that planet seemed to be a giant waste of time and effort.
However, overall better than quite a few of the series.
With due respect Cato and I say this as someone who likes and admires you:
Get a fooking pair of glasses.
TLJ is an abortion of a film. Easily the worst of the Franchise and possibly the beginning of the end of Star Wars as the blue chip brand it has always been.
Sad but true.
Hopefully Solo is awesome, only a few weeks to go!
I'll wait before I spend my hard earned on that. Have you seen the guy they didn't select as Solo? Was the farking image of Ford and had even played a younger version of him before. Why they seleted this guy is beyond me. Can't be his acting if he needed a teacher midway through.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@mn5 said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@catogrande said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
So I've just sat and watched this with Ms Cato No1. This was an important issue for her as she is very close to giving up on Star Wars. She hated TFA and was not even luke-warm on Rogue One. This was the last chance saloon as far as she was concerned. However TLJ offered enough in her opinion to save Star Wars and she is now prepared to wait in anticipation for the next round (Not including Solo). Like daughter No1 I was quite happy with it on the whole and found the fleshing out of Rey and Kylo interesting and I liked that it was a bit darker, sort of in the vein as ESB in that respect.
I thought it was a shame that Snoke wasn't given enough of a story and also sorry to see the Admiral get his. Who's going to recognise any traps now? And the fact the code-breaker turned out to be a wrong 'un. I thought his character had something going for it.
Things that bugged me:-
Leia's Mary Poppins moment. Have I missed somewhere along the line that she knew she had powerful force abilities or did she just think "Fuck it, I'll give it a go"? Plus it was just a bit crap.Rose and Po both surviving not only a major crash but also a real slog back to friendly lines whilst injured - as has been alluded to earlier.
The crystal critters. Why? Just why? I understand they need something to show them all the escape route and to allow Rey to move the stones, but those things were just shite. And so were those stupid little birds.
The casino scene, in fact most of what went on on that planet seemed to be a giant waste of time and effort.
However, overall better than quite a few of the series.
With due respect Cato and I say this as someone who likes and admires you:
Get a fooking pair of glasses.
TLJ is an abortion of a film. Easily the worst of the Franchise and possibly the beginning of the end of Star Wars as the blue chip brand it has always been.
Sad but true.
Hopefully Solo is awesome, only a few weeks to go!
I'll wait before I spend my hard earned on that. Have you seen the guy they didn't select as Solo? Was the farking image of Ford and had even played a younger version of him before. Why they seleted this guy is beyond me. Can't be his acting if he needed a teacher midway through.
I'm a fan through and through. No question of me not going to this on the big screen....
